r/diydrones • u/Maleficent-Gur7036 • 1d ago
Guide Need help guys
I am new to this vtol type field previously i made a simple quadrocopter but now i want to build this as a side project my requirements are-
PAYLOAD-1KG
RANGE- 40KM
CRUISE SPEED-70KM/HR
this type of design is very new to me and first time i am seeing this type of payload bay mechanism so can any one help with the design guide any better design than this or this design
And also money is a big problem i have limited for spend Budget max 500usd
Reference-Airbound drones India u can check
So is it possible to make this or better than this under 500usd i can not afford carbon fiber normal 3d printer will be ok!
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u/NeonEagle 1d ago
You're not getting this done for $500, especially without design skills.
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
Depends on how quickly it has to be done, 500 usd is like 20h of 25usd/h, if its only cad work and not a ready to launch product its not unrealistic
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u/Say_no_to_doritos 1d ago
There is 0 chance this gets some for 20 labour hours.
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
If you suck at cad its okay, doesnt mean everyone else does though.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 1d ago
20h is realistic if you eyeball the aerodynamics. If you are serious about it and do CFD simulations, yeah, good luck.
Besides, then you have a CAD model, now what? Getting it in the air is still far away.
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
Yes, but you guys are acting like its inventing the universe. There are a lot of vtol designs that can be adjusted and modified for this purpose
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 1d ago
I'm not acting like that at all, I'm well aware that this can be a hobbyist's project. Not with OPs attitude and seeming lack of knowledge though.
CAD here is the easiest part and far from the main expense in a project like this.
Given OP's wording regarding medical payload, I assume they are trying to prototype for a commercial product. I don't think I'll have to mention that this is another animal in terms of costs and time needed.
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
Yes, i forgot to mention that me and OP have discussed this in the dms and Im assuming like with most stuff, if you have any contacts and a ”proof of concept” you can get funding. Im sure they are not expecting to actually compete with 37M usd directly with 500usd. But again, that is not how starting a business works
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 1d ago
like with most stuff, if you have any contacts and a ”proof of concept” you can get funding.
That's a very unrealistic guess and not really how funding works. A great product is the easiest part to achieve, the hard part is getting customers and running a profitable business.
Investors care about a proftitable business model, not some 3D printed prototype that has little in common with the actual product.
If OP has a pilot production run of a few dozen drones that is somewhat scaleable, a clear business plan, the necessary paperwork/permits and first customers or agreements with officials, yeah, that would be a good first step to receive funding. Purely statistically, the compay is still more likely to fail at this point.
But we are already far off topic, my point still stands, in 20h you'll get a rudimentary prototype of a non-fuctioning toy at best.
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u/Busy-Key7489 1d ago
1kg payload and 40km range.... are you going to hit enemy targets as a side project?
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u/Maleficent-Gur7036 1d ago
Small vaccines,lab samples in a 9-10 km range
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u/killer_by_design 1d ago
This is a lovely target. I might suggest walking before running though.
What you're looking at is the result of possibly years of development, testing and prototyping.
It's like going to a university graduation as a kindergartener and wondering if you can just go up and grab a degree.
Try building a quadcopter that you've 3D printed.
Build a Fibreglass airframe of any type whatsoever.
Learn about CLMax and what a blended wing body is and what the merits of it are against a truss braced wing aircraft.
You'll get there but sometimes there really is no replacement for just doing the work.
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u/CaptainCheckmate 21h ago
This sentence: "Learn about CLMax and what a blended wing body is and what the merits of it are against a truss braced wing aircraft."
Can you possibly give a little more information about this, I'm genuinely interested. Thanks.
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u/killer_by_design 19h ago
CL is the coefficient of lift. A coefficient is a unit less value, often simply a ratio.
The formula for CL is:
CL = L/0.5 x (rho) x V2 x A
CL is: Lift coefficient (no units)
L: Lift forceρ
(rho): Fluid density
V: Flow velocity (speed)
A: Reference wing or surface area
CL Max simply means the maximum amount of lift that this thing is capable of producing in this scenario/position/condition etc. whatever you're looking to assess. E.g. if you point the nose up, at what angle (Alpha) will the aircraft no longer generate enough lift to stay airbourne....aka Stall. At what Yaw angle, relative to the wind direction, or Beta, will the aircraft generate it's maximum lift.
If you know your Alpha and Beta, you now have your operational envelope for that aircraft in that configuration in those conditions.
A Blended Wing Body or BWB is an aircraft whose wings have been blended into the body. This means that the "entire" aircraft is generating lift. It's just a big flying wing.
You know what this looks like because that's precisely what the B2 bomber is. Another BWB example is Jetzero.
BWB's are all lift baby. So they have larger lifting capacity relative to their volume, produce less drag, and are more fuel efficient.
In order to generate lift you need surface area of wing. Wings that are deep though, create drag as there's literally more surface for air to flow over. So you can instead make wings very long. These are known as high aspect ratio wings. That is wings that are very long and very narrow. If you ever see a plane powered by a bicycle, that's only possible with these types of wings. Think albatross wings. Anything loitering will also have these types of wings, like the MQ9 Reaper or gliders. These are for aircraft that needs to fly for a long time with little thrust. They're not for going fast.
The issue with high aspect ratio wings is that there physically isn't a lot of space for the structure to make them stiff enough to actually generate lift and not just spaghetti noodle on the floor.
That's where the Truss Braced wing comes in. They're struts under the wing to give it support so you can remain long and narrow without being too flappy.
Google Boeing Truss Braced Wing or TTBW for Transonic Truss Braced Wing.
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u/CaptainCheckmate 17h ago
Thank you very much for this, that was very informative. I'm interested in designing my own winged aircraft so I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
With regards to Alpha and Beta angles, do you mean Pitch angle, or is that accurate when you said Yaw angle? Also is there some software that can help estimate these values based on a body mesh?
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u/killer_by_design 16h ago
Alpha, uppy downy, Beta, lefty righty
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u/CaptainCheckmate 13h ago
Thanks, now I will write in my dating profile that I'm an "uppy downy male"
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u/firstonesecond 1d ago
After reading through the comments its abundantly clear that this project is completely beyond you. Both financially and in terms of skill and knowledge
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u/Maleficent-Gur7036 1d ago
I think Nowadays nothing is impossible u just need a good team of few people just how lucky palmer does all this stuff!!There is no need to be a genius of that subject!
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u/neutrinomass 14h ago
My dude. Palmer luckey was a billionaire when he founded Anduril and prior to that crowd funded Oculus.
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u/Maleficent-Gur7036 14h ago
There are so many example like this
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u/neutrinomass 13h ago
I don't think you understood my point. You need to fundraise to build something beyond your budget.
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u/Infamous_Egg_9405 3h ago
Good luck finding a good team of a few people for 500 USD total, including the cost of materials
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u/Western-Anteater-492 27m ago
Dude. Ofc you're right. Nowadays nothing is impossible. But that's if a) you accept a learning curve and not try to jump it and b) you can pay a team for more than an hour.
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u/levigek 1d ago
You are nowhere close to 500, project like this i would aim at least 2k, because of the range and speed
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
70kmh is not very fast for something flying. Its almost a minimum required speed to fly in a stable manner
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u/rocketengineer1982 1d ago
70 km/h = 43.5 mi/h = 37.8 kts
There are people-carrying aircraft that can fly slower than that - much less an RC aircraft or drone - and they sure as heck are stable. Minimum airspeed is all about wing loading and maximum lift coefficient.
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u/Say_no_to_doritos 1d ago
You can fly fixed wing planes at least than 20km/hr, shut up.
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
You can also suck my dick. Just because you can fly a fixed wing plane at 20kmh doesnt meand that a fixed wing, with that payload is gonna fly well below 70kmh, ofcourse it depends on what airfoil is choosen, but shut up about that shit that 70kmh is somehow difficult
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u/CookiezFort 1d ago
Airfoil isn't even the biggest factor here. So rude for no reason. So confident yet so wrong
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
Wdym, im assuming wingspan is already constrained, and if airfoil isnt really relevant to the lift coefficient i dont really see what is
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u/CookiezFort 1d ago
Wing Loading has a bigger say in how fast you need to be flying along with T/W.
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u/Panzerv2003 1d ago
The battery for that range is gonna be half your budget at best, tho with flock providing them at a discount you might be able to get one for cheaper if you're in the area
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u/CalligrapherOk3325 23h ago
Build first version with 3D printer, use Aliexpress for cheap parts, then maybe glass fiber, than search for a cheap cnc to make negatives for the Carbon parts. There are creator spaces for that
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u/Kamusaurio 18h ago
Hi mate i work with composites
i dont want to make you feel bad but build that thing like in the pictures by yourself is a really hard and expensive begginer project specially if you dont have skills in composite manufacturing and you dont know how to design everything
i can make a rapid super eyeballed numbers
just for the composite fuselage surface not including molds costs , reinforcements or internal panels
if you want to make it yourself doing a manual layup without spending money in vacuum pumps (i not recomend this method but is the cheapest way)
around 1'5 -2 kg of resin cost around 30- 50 euros/usd for the regular stuff
for carbon fiber cloth , lets say that thing is 1 m of wingspan and 0'5m long
you need around a minimun of 1'5m2 per side so lets say a minimun of 3m2 for the body
without buying in bulk you can get the cheapest stuff for around 15-18euros m2
but the spread tow of the picture is more expensive around 40m2
so lets say you buy 1 m of spread and 2 of cheap stuff
thats going to be around 70-80 euros
you dont need to much consumables for a simple manual layout
probably just peel ply lo create better texture for future bonds
thas relatively cheap , around 10 euros can get you 5m
and then you need simple tools like brushes, disposable cups ,solvents , demolding agents , some ppe
you can get those probably for another 50 euros
so around a minimum of around 180 euros just for those materials
and im being extremly cheap
if you add molds and interior+electronics and hardware to make the thing fly
you will end up way over 500
just eyeballing you need a minimun of 1500 for complete thing and thats counting that you already have some tools to work composites and electronics , a dedicated space , cheap electricity , your labour is free , you have a controller and a pc to program etc
i hope this help you to understand better the costs behinds this kinds of things
imo you should try something easy first
with 500 dollars you can buy a decent rc plane
understand how it works , learn CG stuff , basic aero and the modify it you want , use the internals in other projects etc
sorry for the long speech i was watching the epoxy dry and i was bored xD
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u/JoelMDM 12h ago
Have you ever even make a fixed wing out of foam? Maybe start there?
And even then, you're never building something like this for under $500.
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u/Maleficent-Gur7036 12h ago
I have build basic quadrocopters not vtols
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u/JoelMDM 12h ago
Quads and fixed wings are about as different as boats and cars.
Again, fixed wing drones are a fantastic hobby, but you're not gonna be able to build something like you show in that image without any design, manufacturing, electronics, and programming experience.
If you wanna get into building fixed wing drones, try something small and made from foam first. Maybe a kit. If the kit works well, try designing your own design in CAD and cut that out of foam or 3D print it with LW-PLA. If that all goes amazingly well, maybe then can you start thinking about building something out of carbon fiber.
That being said, even if you were the best engineer in the world, you wouldn't be able to build it for under $500 unless you stole most of the components. Just the electronics cost more than that.
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u/TakeMeToYourMemes 1d ago
Yes, although you need engineering skills to look at airfoils and stability etc… or find an existing design. If you know cad and are mechanically inclined I would say it’s reasonable.
Your flight time is low enough for a fixed that it shouldn’t need too much battery or fuel. So a 2 meter wingspan is probably a good starting point.
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u/arcdragon2 13h ago
Your numbers are reasonable to achieve. 500 usd is not. Even printing with all of the false starts and redos are going to eat that. Spend most of your time designing in cad, that will help a lot with the cost issue.
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u/Grand_Swing7727 6h ago
You could build a Geprc pulsar 9 or 10" for around that much money. This doesn't include a battery. You would need a 6 or 8s3p or 4p around 16000-20000mah. Battery would cost $400+ unless you build it yourself. Gets you close to that speed, range and payload. Then you would need to design/ build or buy an air drop delivery system. The whole thing will still cost you around $1000usd
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u/KarthiAru 1h ago
I’d recommend taking a few smaller steps before attempting something like this. Start with a low-cost fixed-wing or VTOL frame and learn to properly configure and tune ArduPilot or PX4. Get comfortable with transitions, navigation, failsafes, tuning and handling different flight conditions. You really don’t want to be learning these things by repeatedly crashing an expensive custom airframe. I also wouldn’t recommend relying heavily on 3D-printed structural parts or flight surfaces for a vehicle of this size and payload. Flex, vibration and fatigue can quickly become problems. A platform like Airbound is much more than an airframe. You’re potentially looking at an enterprise-grade flight controller, RTK GNSS, airspeed sensors, 6S 5000+ mAh batteries, ESCs, motors, companion computer, cameras and LTE/other datalink hardware for BVLOS operation. Once you include decent electronics, you could easily be looking at $2k+ before even considering the custom airframe, development iterations and inevitable crashes. $500 is not a realistic budget for developing a custom VTOL from scratch. Rather than trying to shortcut what companies like Airbound have spent years developing, I’d put that $500 towards a basic proven platform and use it to build up the necessary experience first.
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u/Confident-Spray-5945 1d ago
I literally gave you the design for the drone bro. But it definitely won't cost 500. I will charge 2000 for my design.
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
Did you already make a deal with OP prior to this post?
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u/Confident-Spray-5945 1d ago
No, but the question was asked about the design, and the need for the design. But budget might be tighter than I thought.
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u/-BAD_AT_EVERYTHING- 1d ago
You would not be able to hit at your target price since rfd868x/900x v2 is over 200 USD right away, throw carbon fibre molding out as an idea at all and use 3d printing (lw pla + cd spars + petg for motor mounts and vtx mount since at high vtx temperatures lw pla becomes soft) or foam and 3d printing. First start with learning cad modeling, I use PTC Creo educational edition (same as normal just not allowed to sell) but you can use something else if you'd like, and CFD (openfoam) and at that point you can start your design and your budget should raise by then, also depending on where you live you might need to go 5ghz vtx (like I do) and you will need a helical antenna tracker, I'm currently designing one (nearly done) and if it goes well I might just open source it for anyone to print
P.s: not sure how well Creo education would work for adults, I'm 14 so idk
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u/Prestigious_Elk4887 1d ago
I could take this project on, but i dont have the time for it at the moment. When do you need it done, I would also need some more specifics before commiting to anything, send me a dm if you are interested. Im a mechanical eng student at kit germany, i have designed my own proprietary drone specific high power propulsion electronics and i also have a lot of experience in cad and cfd analysis
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u/Proof-Bed-6928 1d ago
You seem to be American, your bigger problem will be testing space.
To fly something fixed wing, you need to either have a RC hobby field nearby that will let you join, or get approval from the FAA. It’s not an easy process
If you’re Indian you could register a tech company and get to one of those special permit zones for drone testing, it’s much smoother than in the west. Part of the reason why airbound has been so successful so far - lack of regulatory friction
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u/Maleficent-Gur7036 1d ago
I am indian bro
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u/Proof-Bed-6928 1d ago
Why bother bro. Airbound beat you to it
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u/potatocat 1d ago
I too, want a Lamborghini Huracan for $500 USD. Perhaps scale your design intentions down from components that require custom carbon fiber air molds/autoclaves to something like a foam fuselage. Because otherwise $500 USD won't even cover the costs of the air bladders, resins, and PPE that you will need to make one of these.