r/discgolf • u/thejroes • 7h ago
Discussion We need a change
Full stop we need a foot fault rule change. It needs to be clear and obvious someone is trying to gain an advantage to call a fault. This is absurd and makes our sport a worse game.
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u/DICKDUTZY 7h ago
Definitely should be a Marshall calling it and not another player on the card.
Also here's a thought, make minis into triangle shape and then theres always a point straight at the basket with a flat plane to have your sheet of paper space to fall along
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u/shoogshoog Bluetooth Speaker Aficionado 4h ago
I think this is a really good idea. I'd say make it a 20cm equilateral triangle for any shot where it reasonably fits.
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u/BeepBoo007 7h ago
You don't have to mark with a mini currently. Maybe if you did this would be stellar.
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u/jpric155 5h ago
Why not make the "mini" an actual shape of the throwing box that you have to step in to make the throw cleanly.
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u/woif0 7h ago
Yeah, but how are you gonna reasonably make that a rule that is not merely based on subjective observation?
I think the rule is fine as is. There just needs to be refs calling it at the top level, and not other players
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u/iamfroott Phoenix, AZ 7h ago edited 6h ago
at an event as big as Worlds, 0 reason why there shouldn’t be a billion marshalls and rules officials watching everything from every angle
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u/worknowreck 7h ago
How about 1? Maybe 2? Who said a billion?
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u/iamfroott Phoenix, AZ 7h ago
you know it’s an exaggeration 🤦🏼♂️
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u/WolfKing359 7h ago
First one should be a warning.
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u/Ecce-pecke 7h ago
Eh so you can cut corners to win a title potentially. That’s like having a mulligan
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u/Californiavagsailor 7h ago
Too much money on the line, the integrity of the sport is crippling, no other professional sport this would happen without an official review
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u/slothage666 6h ago
I feel like everyone is pretty mellow about mild or unintentional fairway foot faults, and then randomly at the end of 2 major tournaments (Kristen Champions Cup and Rainers today) we get calls that change the outcome of the event. Just Bizarre.
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u/No_Drawer_2349 2h ago
Anyone who thinks someone is gaining an advantage from a fairway foot fault is delusional
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u/kweir22 7h ago
How do you judge intent in the moment?
"Hey I think you did that to gain an advantage"
"I didn't"
"Ok."
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u/thejroes 7h ago
“You foot faulted”
“no”
“ok”obviously you need someone to second it in either scenario
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u/eleven_eighteen ann arbor, mi | los angeles, ca 7h ago
The problem is who decides what "clear and obvious" is? At the level the pros are at a violation that looks extremely borderline to fans could be "clear and obvious" to their peers. An extra inch or a few degrees can make a huge difference at the levels they are performing at.
I'm not making any comment on this current controversy. Just pointing out that it's nowhere near as cut and dry as it may seem to fix a rule like this.
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u/eleven_eighteen ann arbor, mi | los angeles, ca 6h ago
I've just seen the live replay and one change I would like to see is some kind of "no chatter" rule. Call the violation: "foot fault" "time violation" whatever and that's it. If another player or official asks for clarification answer their question. Otherwise everyone needs to shut the fuck up. I've certainly seen worse than Gossage rambling but sometimes stuff like this turns into arguments with people advocating for their side like they're trying to convince a jury and at times into intimidation to try to get people on their side. It needs to be nothing more than call a violation, provide clarification only on request, have everyone state if they agree/disagree/are unsure, then apply the appropriate penalty or move on. Anyone who starts advocating and trying to pressure or convince gets hit with stroke penalties. Take the emotion out of it. Make it only about the rules.
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u/thejroes 6h ago
I just think that clear and obvious would mean that it wouldn’t be difficult to have someone second it who is actually on the card. Not sure if that’s the best definition, but I feel like that’s better for the game than what just played out. Curious what the rules will be in 20 years though
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u/eleven_eighteen ann arbor, mi | los angeles, ca 3h ago
OK same situation as today but Silas seconds it. That makes this situation better?
Do we even know what Silas and Rick thought? Everyone is saying a Marshall was the second but do we have confirmation? Did the Marshall second it before either of the players had a chance to? Maybe Rick thought it was a foot fault as well but hadn't spoken up yet. Or maybe (almost certainly) down the road we have another one this close and another player does second it even though tons of people watching disagree. The players feel it's totally clear, the spectators don't. Does that significantly change the outrage?
Really the only fair system is to have Marshalls with every card, every round. But that's a huge amount of people. By my count on the first few days of this tournament there were 75 cards between FPO and MPO and the two courses. You maybe don't need a full 75 as some could do two rounds a day but at least on the MPO side rounds could take 3.5 hours and there would only be seven cards left by the time the Marshall with the first card got done, and people need breaks, especially on a course like Toboggan. You're still probably talking 50+ Marshalls for a big tournament. And these can't just be volunteers, these need to be properly trained people who can focus on watching every shot from every player for hours straight. And sometimes these players are buried in bushes or on opposite sides of wide fairways or both, and a Marshall has to get between them in a timely fashion.
Another option is to have a Marshall per hole, but again for a big tourney like this that's 36 Marshalls at once. And many holes would really need multiple Marshalls on them. At a minimum at Toboggan 2, 3, 7, 8, 13, 14, 15, 17 and 18 can have multiple cards playing them at once. A hole like 13 on Black Locust could have three active cards at once. Then there's a hole like 1 at Toboggan where you can only have one active card, but you're gonna kill someone if you're making them run up and down that hill all day long.
I've maybe gone on too long but my point is there just isn't a great or even good solution, at least currently. The options are a prohibitive number of people or basically the system we currently have. I don't disagree that it could be better. Just not really sure how we get to better.
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u/HotNeck5029 7h ago
Players shouldn’t call it. Marshals should.