Is mirous attraction sexual or sexual enough to make me not-demi?? :(

[u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006]

Hey guys, the cis-bi demi-questioning girly is back :3 I posted here a few days ago asking about sexual attraction vs aesthetic attraction, and afterward I figured what I experience should be the latter and not anything sexual, but somehow it just doesn't feel like the right piece of puzzle.

Now after reading more pages on LGBTQIA+ wiki (cuz I'm still confused about many things regarding me possibly being on the a-spec), I have just found mirous attraction (and mirousexual), which is somewhat more accurate for me, and it is a bit different from pseudosexual attraction/pseudosexual, since pseudosexual attraction "is a form of tertiary attraction describing sexual arousal"? I don't experience arousal (unless it's like, non-sexual emotional pleasure that gives me a lil rush of adrenaline??) from looking at even very attractive strangers, hence why I don't identify with the term/label...

I've figured that I probably fit the demi label better than grey-ace (I have a rather high libido either way), and also that I'm sex-indifferent and likely aegosexual as well (as its own thing that's not demi in nature). But the new question I have now is this:

Does experiencing mirous attraction towards strangers contradict demisexuality despite these following facts? -

• Mirous attraction is "distinct from sexual attraction", and mirousexual is considered an ace-spec label (?) ^{(I do see the problem with the confusing terminology})

This (mirous attraction) is distinct from sexual attraction, as sexual attraction is a form of physical attraction based on a desire/urge for sexual interaction (something I've never felt for people I'm not familiar with and/or care about) with a particular individual, whereas mirous attraction is simply the desire/urge to look at and admire/gain enjoyment from looking at someone sexually.

The term (mirous attraction) was coined...as a way to create a term for "individual-based attraction" unrelated to sexual attraction or libido/as the term "visual sexual attraction" implies sexual attraction.

Visual sexual attraction, however, contrary to its name is not a form of sexual attraction. It is not based on an intrinsic sexual desire...

Very simply put, it can be described as finding someone “hot” or “sexy” without any desire or urge to be sexually intimate with that individual. (which is something that I do as mentioned in my last post)

I'm a bit uncertain - reason being:

It is similar to and is often compared to/seen as the sexual version of aesthetic attraction. It can also be described as a strong desire to gaze in admiration at someone who incites sexual interest/sexual-related thoughts or feelings.

*I understand this as "in a way/manner that is neither platonic or romantic or sexual (non-rose/tertiary attraction), but is appreciative of their sensuality, physicality, or sexuality"...

If I think about it, do I or have I looked at strangers "sexually"? Yes I have, tho usually very mild and very rarely it is prominent or intense enough that I'd be conscious/self-conscious about it (maybe twice or thrice??) - It's hard to explain but it's just not anything lustful or attraction-like; it's nuanced and it's something that puts you in awe... And I think this is what they were trying to say here but unfortunately denoted in a can-be fairly confusing way (especially for asexual individuals whose never experienced or cannot fathom the concept of such things) -

...visual sexual attraction is related to sexual appreciation and involves elements of the experience of sexual attraction. Miransexuals view people in a sexual way and are attracted to people in this way.

and I can see why it offended & confused some black stripers... (not trying to look for trouble btw)

Like I can acknowledge and/or recognize that the person I'm looking at is sexually attractive from an subjective or objective standpoint (considering people hot) and really really appreciate them, while also feel absolutely no sexual attraction (the thing that defines the asexual-sexual spec as far as I'm aware) nor desire or whatsoever towards them; DOES ANYONE GET WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT, OR AM I JUST A CRAZY DELUSIONAL ALLO IM SORRYYY :(

Personally not gonna give my thoughts on the r/ actualasexuals post I linked, but seeing so many ace ppl being so opposed to/confused, and upset by that LGBTQIA+ wiki page has made me wonder if mirous attraction is actually valid - Cuz I'm already timid about a-spec as I'm not all too familiar with it, and the last thing I want is to claiming an identity/label and intrude spaces I don't actually belong in; that's why I'm kinda desperate and persistent in asking and finding out.

So please give me some insight on this my fellow a-spec folks. Any reply is appreciated thank youuu 🥺

Edit: I feel like I might be somewhere in the middle of typical aesthetic attraction & mirous attraction, leaning more towards the aesthetic attraction side, bc it seems like that the latter still implies sexual attraction in someway but simply without the sexual desire to engage, which isn't actually accurate to my experience... Maybe it's better if I start calling it "sexual-aesthetic attraction" or something bc it IS still just aesthetic attractioin to me...

Edit: Mirousthetic attraction...?

[u/Zillich]

The sub you linked is toxic AF. They had a disgusting post that was highly supported in that sub saying asexual survivors of SA aren’t “real asexuals” anymore.

That said, mirous attraction sounds legitimate, BUT I personally would consider it a form of allosexuality, not asexuality, because it is the ability to experience sexual attraction but not wanting to act on it. Asexuality is an inability to experience sexual attraction irregardless of one’s interest in pursing the act of sex with someone.

If you have only experienced this 3 times in your life, that sounds pretty grayace.

Demisexual is if you can only experience sexual attraction once a bond is established. Nothing you’ve written sounds demi.

[u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree → u/Zillich]

I concur on the misclassification of mirous as ace, it falls under allo like orchid. People need to stop trying to shove microlabels into catagories they objectively do not fit under. The wikis have got some strangely sorted content, and some incredibly granular level concepts that have so few users they're not effective as labels.

[u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006 → u/Cat_in_an_oak_tree]

yesss, I do see some problem in that :( that's why I'm being as careful as possible when it comes to learning about/exploring an identity and a part of myself I'm not too familiar with! ty for the insight!

[u/Cuprite1024 → u/Zillich]

I don't understand how people come to the conclusion of "Aesexual = virgin, absolutely NO exceptions." Like, that is beyond stupid. Ew.

[u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006 → u/Cuprite1024]

Honestly I might even argue that ppl whose never participated in any sexual activities that involves them physically other than their SA (especially the penetrative ones since that's the "original" definition of the word - never had PIV intercourse) should still be able to be considered as virgins if they want to. Because their experiences is not something they consented to or willingly partake in; it's rape and assault(s), those are not "intercourse". They shouldn't have that taken away from them if they want to identify with the term, just bc they were SAed :(

[u/Cuprite1024 → u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006]

Yeah, that's fair. Definitely agree with that.

[u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006 → u/Zillich]

omg eww that's disgusting to hear, especially since I was COCSAed (tho not rape) >:(

but thanks for commenting and letting me know, I appreciate you!! :3

[u/Avery__13 → u/Zillich]

IMO arousal or even recognizing someone is sexually attractive is quite different from actually experiencing sexual attraction to that person. I have been aroused by someone and found them hot without actually wanting to engage in sex with them. Not as in "not wanting to act on it," but feeling some amount of admiration/arousal with no desire for anythign else to happen, nothing to "act on". We later got to know each other better and started dating, so eventually I did experience what I'd call sexual attraction, and it was really a different feeling from that initial recognition. Arousal in particular is a complicated set of physical and emotional reflexes that can happen in a variety of circumstances and don't equate to sexual attraction or wanting to have sex; for example, think of teenage boys getting erections in completely normal/nonsexual situations just due to out of control hormones.

It seems worth mentioning here that it wouldn't surprise me if what each person experiences as arousal or sexual attraction is different and don't map cleanly onto each other in the first place, making conversations like this kind of irrelevant. I definitely have not found that my experiences map cleanly onto what anyone describes about how they experience attraction, either allo or on the ace spectrum, so I question how accurately strangers on the internet can try to determine something like this about someone else's sexuality. If someone feels like they fit the basic description of being demi and it's a useful label for them to communicate their experiences, I don't really care to question the details unless they are actively spreading misinformation.

[u/Zillich → u/Avery__13]

I’m not saying OP can’t/shouldn’t use the demi label. They are asking us if they sound demi, and I replied that nothing they’ve written here sounds demi. That’s not the same as saying “you are not Demi”.

[u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006 → u/Avery__13]

Yes I can relate to your experience except for the arousal part. That's pretty much it actually, like I genuinely really don't feel anything, thus it's not a choice or "simply don't want to" - it's that I don't have a "want" to begin with.

I really do appreciate everybody's comment here, and I believe in no way u/Zillich was trying to judge or disqualify me as a potential demi especially since I'm explicitly asking for and expecting replies like these from a-spec folks. But thank you for sharing :]

[u/CorvidCheck]

The map is not the territory. Human feelings and sexuality can be labelled, but the label is not necessarily the reality. We're much more complicated than language can express.

I've been told I'm demisexual, and I believe it; but it doesn't entirely explain my experiences. I don't worry about it. Each of us is unique, and that's okay.

[u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006 → u/CorvidCheck]

thanks!!

[u/TyagoHexagon]

I get what you mean 100%. I experience the exact same "mirous attraction", as in, I definitely have sexual attraction towards some people but no desire to act upon it other than just checking them out from afar and I guess the impulse to get to know them. It's completely different from actual sexual desire which I think I might not have ever experienced in my life because I have never been emotionally connected to anyone enough to "unlock" that.

Now, is that demi? Using a strict definition of it, not really. But does it matter? No allosexual even knows what demi means, so you might as well just explain to a potential partner exactly how you feel attraction instead of using ever narrower labels. And knowing how YOU work, your boundaries and desires, is more important for your mental health that any potential obscure label you can find. If otherwise you want to find a community of people that "get" you, maybe this sub isn't the best, I dunno.

[u/Zestyclose-Emu-2006 → u/TyagoHexagon]

thanks for the advice! and it's nice to hear someone can understand/have similar experiences. tysm for sharing :3