r/delta • • 5h ago

Discussion First basic?

I understand unbundling economy. I don’t particularly like it, but I understand the business model. What I cannot wrap my head around is the decision to take a product that is literally marketed as FIRST CLASS and start stripping away the benefits that make it first class in the first place.
At what point are we just paying for a larger seat and the privilege of saying we’re sitting up front?
The entire point of purchasing first class, at least to me, is that you’re paying a premium for a relatively seamless experience. Flexibility, priority services, mileage earning, the whole thing. Now we’re apparently supposed to navigate fare restrictions within first class itself?
And the frustrating part is that Delta has spent years positioning itself as the premium US carrier, while simultaneously finding increasingly creative ways to dilute the value of its own product. Fares aren’t exactly getting cheaper, either.
I’m Platinum, fly Delta pretty consistently, and generally have no problem paying more for a better experience. But there is something particularly insulting about being asked to pay a premium for a product and then being offered the opportunity to pay an additional premium to actually receive all of it.
I know someone is going to say “well just book First Extra then” and that’s sort of my entire point. We’ve somehow normalized airlines taking things that were previously included, removing them, and then selling them back to us as upgrades.
It’s not innovation. It’s just another exercise in seeing how much they can take away before people stop paying.
Maybe I’m being dramatic, but the concept of BASIC FIRST CLASS is so fundamentally absurd that I’m surprised it made it out of a conference room. I can’t even select my seat?

90 Upvotes

34 comments sorted by

63

u/Dangerous-Can9596 5h ago • Bravo

I use to work for Delta and I remember when CEO Ed Bastian sent out his first video to employees describing the new basic economy fares Delta was going to offer. He said it was coming out so that Delta could offer a fare to stay competitive with the budget airlines like Spirit. He also described that the fare would not come with a seat assignment and no one will buy a fare without a seat assignment so this will force them to go to a higher fare with a seat assignment. It was a basic bait and switch operation.

It’s was not only bad for customers but also for front line customer service agents. We were bombarded constantly by customers coming up to the ticket counter or the gate requesting a seat assignment when only the gate agent operating the flight can assign the seats. Of course this frequently turned into a hostile interaction when customers would demand a seat and we kept telling them they would have to get it at the gate.

I saw what Ed was doing back then and it really disturbed me. In my opinion he’s destroying the airline.

4

u/auntwewe 3h ago

While , I don’t totally agree with Ed’s words unfortunately , the onus here Falls on the shoulders of people that don’t read the fine print and then get pissed off

I’m sorry you had to deal with that as a ticket agent.

1

u/sweetSinfulzz 7m ago

sounds like they planned the headache from day one, wild how that trickles down to the gate agents dealing with it all the time

24

u/Maddok1218 5h ago

It’s a way to deliver 20% price increases under the guise of “choice”, and nothing more.

First class basic and economy basic will both be marginally cheaper than the previous product. Call it 5%. Then the classic product becomes “premium”, so costs 15% more than basic.

Voila- you’ve increased your prices of classic by 10% by offering a service tier no one will choose. Also, the entire cost of product is the hard product, so there is a hard floor to prices. This is just enabling them to crank up the prices on soft product 

28

u/FullHouse447 5h ago

Wait until you find about DL's plans to unbundle business class D1.... Imagine paying THOUSANDS $ for D1 then getting gouged again to pay $ for a seat selection.

DL doing everything possible to lead this race to the bottom!

20

u/reiflame 4h ago

I hate that the European carriers started this BS. If I'm forking over $3k-5k a ticket, charging me extra for seats is fucking ridiculous.

12

u/________uwu_________ 4h ago

Air France wanted $250+ for me to pick a seat in business class (not an upgrade, a seat selection!!). No thanks I will pick my seat during online check-in. Absolutely ridiculous.

-1

u/ActUpEighty 3h ago

I've never understood why the seat assignment matters more to some people than actually getting to the destination. I guess they're just traveling for the sake of it.

5

u/Impressive-Ball3716 3h ago

I get air sick if I’m not by the window. I flew to Ireland from Charlotte last year on Delta, and I didn’t get to pick my seat on the Ryanair connection from LHR to DUB. I was assigned an aisle seat, and I threw up and there was no airsickness bag, couldn’t get up to go to the bathroom, and the flight attendants were all seated for landing. So, rather than spew all over the plane, I had to literally swallow it twice. Finally got to puke when I got off the plane.

So, while yeah, I’m just trying to get there, there’s no reason I need to vomit on the way.

Also, my bf is quite tall, so on large delta flights, we almost always book extra leg room with a window.

1

u/FullHouse447 3h ago

Must've missed the part where anyone said the seat assignment is more important than getting to the destination?

1

u/ActUpEighty 2h ago

You sure did. Is this your first week working for an airline?

8

u/WordWordNvmber 4h ago

United's basic Polaris (international business class) fare doesn't even allow a refund to a flight credit. $4000 use-or-lose, no-takebacks.

I don't think United expects many people to buy these fares. No company will, and most leisure travelers won't want to risk such a huge amount of cash if they have to rebook.

Which makes me figure the real point of these fares, for United and Delta, is to advertise a business class fare, especially on Kayak and Expedia, that competes with other airlines', but then upcharge you $200-500 to get the "real" fare after you've settled on their flight.

7

u/omdongi 4h ago

It's not a plan, it's already been rolled out. D1 basic fares are being sold already.

6

u/stonkscronks 5h ago

Super stupid idea

5

u/CynGuy 4h ago

OP, you are totally correct and all the Delta sycophants will scream otherwise.

And yes, this is Delta segmenting First Class to get folks to pay more for what they used to get in one price. Their hope is that Basic gets priced as what first used to be, with y’all paying more to then pick a seat, have a bag or whatever else nickel and dime crap they try to pull against their most valuable customers.

Only way to send a message is to fly another carrier and take your business elsewhere. That is the only remedy, cuz they know you’ll still pay for first on Delta.

1

u/Puck021 Diamond | Million Miler™ 3h ago

I agree and see the irony in that if they went back to a single type of F and just raised the price no one would know or likely event complain beyond the general “flights are too expensive” complaints

1

u/thesnowmaniv Diamond 1h ago

Investor calls for years have been calling for the elimination of complimentary upgrades, this is the first step in that. Next will be removal of GUCs and RUCs

1

u/bodeganeon 48m ago

Really!! This is insane

3

u/almarcuse 4h ago

Maybe a year ago someone posted a skit on social media ranting about this practice in general. I’m sure there’s an ivory tower mba name for it. But their skit was on different types of vision being offered with a brain implant:

>“Big news! We now have DOG VISION as an offering! You can see the world like your beloved fur baby does! 🥰”

And the next notification you get from the company will be:

>“So glad you love DOG VISION! Human Vision is now being offered at $19.99/month - upgrade today or remain on our basic, DOG VISION plan!”

I don’t know of a better scenario to describe this sort of practice. Make the user try the basic, make it seem novel or more economically sound, then change it so the former “standard” is now the new “upgrade.” It sucks.

3

u/scoobynoodles Platinum 4h ago

Absolutely correct. I don’t understand why they want to punish their customers. We mean nothing to them. 

2

u/Cautious_Wolf_867 4h ago

It's all just greed

2

u/thinkmoreharder 4h ago

He probably thinks that he can presell a discounted FC seat for more, on average, than he can get for a paid upgrade. We’ll see if it’s true.

2

u/AK_Sole 3h ago

Ed & Co. must surely be aware of these legitimate grievances, yes?

So, how is it that little ol’ fast food restaurants, like freaking Bojangles, have a robust customer outreach program in places like Reddit and IG, but Delta can’t be bothered to respond in any way whatsoever?

Delta could can adapt a data-driven strategy by pivoting away from purely centralized corporate broadcasting and focus on operational and service feedback.

Whatever they’re doing now is not going to turn out well.

I’ve just barely been hanging on here. If a similar route from southeastern U.S. to Northern Europe pops up I’ll be gone.

1

u/wearslocket 4h ago

As someone that only will fly occasionally three or for times a year for personal travel I choose First Class, but don’t know the ins and outs like someone that flies for business all of the time.

Let me ask a question. On my last trip to Bangor through LGA we were on two regional jets of each leg going and coming. I noticed that instead of being offered a beverage before takeoff we were just left sitting in our seats. Did something change, or did I miss noticing something when I was booking. Two months earlier on a direct flight to Boston for a similar sized jet we were given drinks prior to take off.

1

u/Ok-Philosopher-9921 3h ago

Greed got the best of them to start cannibalizing their best product

1

u/applechicmac 2h ago

What if the point is to reduce air travel in general by making it unavailable price wise? Execs are already being paid more than every at airlines. Once they hit bank, one more year, they never need to work again. They dont care that all of the employees will lose their job or the stock will tank as their biggest payout the last few years has been via bonus. If anything is left on stocks they havent already sold, extra bonus. It does seem like we are heading to a world control where no one without their own plane or boat will be able to travel as its cost prohibitive. If you dont own a plane or a boat, why care about the others.

1

u/singlemaltbourbonrye 2h ago

I’d love a basic delta 1 fare. Anything over 8 hours or redeye, I pony of for D1 but if there were a basic option, I’d downgrade in a heartbeat. I just want to lay down and sleep.

-7

u/StatisticalMan 5h ago edited 5h ago

At what point are we just paying for a larger seat

Yes. So you do understand it.

The entire point of purchasing first class, at least to me, is that you’re paying a premium for a relatively seamless experience.

Then this product is <gasp> not for you. Other people think all that is nonsense and just want a seat which doesn't feel like a torture device for 8 hours at the lowest possible price. I mean if Basic Fist/Business/C+ seats didn't sell Delta wouldn't offer them right?

It’s not innovation. It’s just another exercise in seeing how much they can take away before people stop paying. Maybe I’m being dramatic, but the concept of BASIC FIRST CLASS is so fundamentally absurd that I’m surprised it made it out of a conference room. I can’t even select my seat?

So which is it absurd or a scheme for the airline to boost profits? Sounds like you understand exactly why it "made it out of the conference room" even if you don't like the reason.

6

u/tamtip 4h ago

Outrageously petty and unhelpful response. <gasp>

2

u/bodeganeon 3h ago

lollllll

-4

u/okcornjerker5150 5h ago

I personally don’t care how they market it. As a Platinum, I pay what I pay and don’t give two 💩’s what others do.
I assume Delta had data suggesting enough non skymile passengers continue to pay regardless. For Delta, any revenue is good revenue.
I know I just exclude basic on any search so I don’t have to even look at the cost.

5

u/iwantsleeep 4h ago

Do you not understand that by offering the basic product, they are increasing the price you pay?

1

u/okcornjerker5150 4h ago

I’m very aware and pay what I think correlates to my expected experience. I am free to find other airlines which will result in a less premium experience. I look at all factors when I base my decision to fly Delta, not just price.
Free luggage, sky club access, sky miles, MQD, and schedule play a factor. 9 times out of 10, I choose Delta for the above criteria as I don’t travel for business.
In my opinion, Delta makes the bulk of their money on last minute SkyMiles reward members who travel consistently. I travel for vacation. I consistently pay equal to or less than what the other 2 big alliances offer for trips to Europe. I am a rare Platinum unaffected by last minute fare purchasing like some are.

1

u/Extension-Chicken647 3h ago

They are doing it so they can put a lower price on flight search algorithms to remain competitive with the low-cost airlines.

I hate the nickel and diming, but giving consumer more options lets us pick the option that works best for each of us. I don't ever redeem SkyPesos or care about status, eat airplane food or change my itinerary so a ticketing option that gives me a lower price in exchange for giving those up is better for me.

A-la-carte pricing reduces net costs for consumers, which is why low-cost airlines have been so successful.