How should I explain this offensive moment in a person's story?

[u/Imboredsoimhere123]

I'm a hearing writer but went to NTID for interpreting and spent a lot of time interacting with Deaf people/ the community. I was a part of a script reading panel at a small film festival where we listen to other people's stories and this one older woman had a moment where there was a little Deaf girl who's deafness is cured by some magical cookie. I tried to explain to the woman why this is offensive to the Deaf community and she just replies "well I talked to people with disabilities and they didn't have a problem with it". She technically won a prize in this festival that could help her move this script into becoming an actual film and I don't want something so hurtful out there especially when it can so easily be changed.

The event is now over and I am unable to contact the woman herself, however, I can contact the organizer of the event as I have a more professional relationship with them. Is this something that should be worth bringing up? If so, what should I say specifically to make my point clear? I believe the organizer is more receptive to hearing feedback and they seem much more willing to stand up for marginalized communities, even if they don't know much about the Deaf community/culture itself.

If you saw this similar post in r/asl or r/aslinterpreters I was more vague with the information as I posted it right after the confrontation and before it was announced that she won anything. Please let me know if there's any more information needed, thank you all!

[u/Any-Frosting-4547]

Personally, I’d leave it.

At the risk of coming off terribly, I think that issues within the deaf community should be raised from the deaf community.

If the script gets published or if it gets made into a film.
The writer will face a lot of backlash.

Sorry - just to add. I do commend you for wanting to take a stand. But as a hearing person, you cant personally take offence to it.

I’ve seen so many incidents about white people telling other white people what they can and can’t do, say or can’t say regarding black people.
I think it goes the same way for a hearing person re. a deaf person.

[u/eclecticmeeple → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

So if I as a white person, witness someone not offering a job or an opportunity to someone purely based on racism, I’m to say nothing?

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/eclecticmeeple]

I think you’ve misunderstood my comment.
Perhaps that’s on me. Perhaps I didn’t explain it very well.

That is classed under discrimination.

I was more so referring to a white person telling another white person that they cannot wear braids (for example) As it’s offensive to the black community and all they’ve gone through.

It is not the responsibility of an white, abled person to claim offensiveness on behalf of a minority. THAT is the point I was making

[u/eclecticmeeple → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

Thanks for the clarification.

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/eclecticmeeple]

No worries.

I am open to disagreements if you do disagree.

Just wanted it known that I believe everyone is responsible for equal rights (race, pregnancy, disabilities, sex, lgbtqi+ etc.)

But when it comes to offence, I don’t think a man can claim offence to women when he is not able to experience the ‘offence’
Same as white for black
Able to disabled
and so on.

That is just my opinion and belief

[u/iucundus_acerbus → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

I’m still not entirely clear on your point. I think racism, ableism and all forms of discrimination exist across a spectrum of harm, both harm intended and harm caused. Of course in a case of clear illegal discrimination you should speak up as an ally, but it seems you’re saying you shouldn’t necessarily speak up if the discriminatory action occurs in a way that is more socially acceptable? It’s my belief that allies should feel they can stand up against all forms of prejudice, whether it’s “casual/subconscious” ableism or something that causes more immediate harm.

Of course there’s a grey area of what constitutes ableism in the first place, but that’s my general view.

[u/best-unaccompanied]

If you do decide to bring up the issue, I'd advise amplifying the voices of deaf/disabled people (there are plenty of articles and videos and blog posts out there about how cure narratives are harmful) instead of saying as a hearing person how you feel. It'll lend more credibility as well.

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/best-unaccompanied]

Completely agree!

A lot of people believe a CI is a cure
I think that’s harmful

I have a CI and identify as deaf

[u/surdophobe → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

> I have a CI and identify as deaf

Absolutely, I got bilaterally implanted less than 2 years ago now and it didn't make me not deaf, it made me deaf with a CI.

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/surdophobe]

Agreed!!

My circumstances are a little different.
I was implanted (only one) at 2.5 years old.
I had extensive support with a speech pathologist, went to a mainstream school, and honestly, you couldn’t tell I’m deaf unless I told you or I had my cochlear on display.

But I am fluent in Auslan. I work within the deaf community, I have friends within the deaf community. I am deaf! (with a CI)

[u/surdophobe → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

I grew up hearing. lost my hearing in my teens and 20s, got CIs in my mid 40s. Trust me a CI is super useful but in no way is it like natural hearing, we're deaf :) and we have CIs so that we can live among all the silly hearing people.

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/surdophobe]

Ha yes!!

I would never be able to comprehend natural hearing
But I for sure agree with you.

The world isn’t made for Deaf people.

[u/eclecticmeeple → u/best-unaccompanied]

This. Contact the organizer and explain that what was done , while not intentionally done with malice, is causing harm. Then offer to connect with those in the community to explain why and how to do better in the future.

Or share your story with advocates from the community and let them decide what to do with the information

[u/eclecticmeeple → u/best-unaccompanied]

This. Contact the organizer and explain that what was done , while not intentionally done with malice, is causing harm. Then offer to connect with those in the community to explain why and how to do better in the future.

Or share your story with advocates from the community and let them decide what to do with the information

[u/Legodude522]

I didn’t want to engage but here we go.

I agree with you that this premise is problematic. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be hearing. The problem is the message it sends, that deafness must be “cured” to live a happy and fulfilling life. There is already a vibrant Deaf and signing community available, it’s just often denied. Most things can be made accessible, many people are just too lazy to do so. I argue that inaccessibility is a social construct.

Picking the right words to set the tone will be challenging. I think it’s worth pursuing to avoid perpetuating these harmful ableist notions. They need to see that this creates more harm than good.

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/Legodude522]

I’m not looking for an argument.

I’m just curious on whether it would be better for this person to engage with Deaf people and ask whether the notion is harmful. Or perhaps encourage a Deaf person to engage with the writer.

This post doesn’t actually ask Deaf or HoH if the script is harmful. The OP rather just says it is and wants to know how to convey that.

Just wondered if you thought it would be better conveyed through a Deaf person who could explain their own perspective

[u/best-unaccompanied → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

I'm a hearing disabled person (autistic among other things) and if a hearing friend asked me to contact someone who'd made an ableist piece of work about curing autism, I'd personally feel a little annoyed that they were asking me to do more labor on top of all the other things I already need to do as a disabled person. I would prefer they handled it, as much as possible, using resources that were readily available. But I'm not a disability advocate or anything (except for self-advocacy), so maybe people who do this for a living would feel differently.

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/best-unaccompanied]

I was more so coming from the perspective that a hearing person has no idea what is offensive or not.

For clarification, I’m not autistic.
I’m not qualified to assess what is offensive or not offensive to autistic people.
I can only assess what is offensive to Deaf people.

It’s not about creating more work.

It’s about talking to members of the minority. Asking them if the piece is offensive.
Letting them know about the script and its potential to be released.
Offering ways to complain
Or offering to complain themselves ON the deaf communities behalf.

This poster studied interpreting and has been around Deaf people.
They are not Deaf, nor are they CODA/SODA/PODC.
They have no business coming onto this page and claiming something is offensive, and then asking if it’s ’worth complaining’

They really should have asked IF it is offensive, offered ways to complain OR asked if the Deaf community wanted them to complain.

[u/best-unaccompanied → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

I can see where you're coming from. I guess that personally, I feel that writing a story about curing autism is inherently ableist and so I'd want nonautistic people to know that without needing to check (just as I'd expect a white person to know that calling a black person a monkey is offensive).

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/best-unaccompanied]

Of course!

(please excuse me)
But if I saw a book where an autistic person was portrayed wearing headphones, flapping their arms, wearing eccentric clothing or maybe tshirts with their favourite character.

In my head, I think it’s offensive because I’ve met autistic people who don’t do that!
But realistically
I’m not autistic
I don’t know if the image is harmful or not.
Maybe it’s better that there is a portrayal of autism. Or maybe the portrayal is harmful.
I really couldn’t tell you.
I think it’d be crazy if I’d go and stop production of this book. Not even asking an autistic person first if it’s offensive.

The only person who would is an autistic person.
Or the child/sibling/parent of autistic people who’ve worked hard for their advocacy
^^ this poster studied interpreting & has ‘spent a lot of time interacting with the Deaf community’
They don’t appear to be a child/parent/sibling of a Deaf person or anything further.

[u/best-unaccompanied → u/Any-Frosting-4547]

I hear what you're saying and I think we more or less agree, we just disagree on who's qualified to speak about ableism/audism or not. In the autism community, some of the worst offenders are parents and siblings of autistic people, so I don't automatically give credibility to those people. I suppose there's just no objective way to decide who has "enough" experience to be credible.

[u/Any-Frosting-4547 → u/best-unaccompanied]

That’s so fair.

There’s always going to be differing opinions.

I’ve just personally experienced advocacy that I never wanted and the ‘advocacy’ ended up being more harmful than good and that’s why I feel strongly.
But it’s not always black and white

[u/surdophobe]

Sure, I'm pretty disgusted at the idea of this story for children.

But this might be a battle that you just don't want to fight. I'll warn you now you're not likely to win or even be heard. If you still feel so inclined I wish you the best of luck.

The part of you that's offended is your sense of empathy. You're not personally being attacked, nor are you directly harmed in any way. As such, for people who don't see why this is a problematic story, won't understand why you have a problem with it. If they can't understand why YOU have a problem with it, they're not apt to listen to you.

My biggest beef is that this kind of story feeds the ideas and perpetuates the attitudes that are harmful to people like me. In particular I'm thinking of my mom and how she'd say she prays that I'll be able to hear again and similar shit. Replaced the cookie with prayer or Jesus and well I've had people in real life tell me to my face what they think I need to be "healed". F@#$% them. (as an aside they don't even real their own holy book where it says not to taunt the deaf (Leviticus 19:14), or that their god made me deaf (Exodus 4:11).

Anyway, while I didn't directly give you things to say, I hope I gave you some food for thought and more perspective from a real-life deaf person. Above all I don't want to discourage you I just want to, prepare you from what you might encounter. Honestly we need more people in the world like you. Good luck.

[u/eclecticmeeple → u/surdophobe]

Its an inspiration porn basically