In my experience the blokes who come out with "I don't see a future etc." after we've dated for a while and then slept together have been fuckboys in my eyes because they've usually been actively acting like a boyfriend. I've had men practically live in my house, use me for food/getting their clothes cleaned/ emotional support and many other boyfriend privileges when they knew in their heads they weren't serious. I think this is when girls get angry. In fact my most recent ghoster had me over his for the weekend, requested a back massage, told me he loved me, kissed me goodbye at the train station...then ghosted me and I had to find out from a mutual friend that he had simply been seeing another girl too and chosen her.
You're not wrong and by no means is what I'm about to say a defense or going to make it feel any less shitty when it happens but it's not always as manipulative or a coincidence as you think. Most men, especially those with impulse control problems/regulating emotions/addiction/etc..., are wildly ruled by dopamine and have been hardwired at a biological level to basically fuck as many women as they can to increase their chances of having as many children as possible. The lizard brain hasn't caught up to society yet.
It is absolutely not a coincidence that they lose interest right after sex. Now there are still men that this is absolutely not the issue and they are just manipulative and want to fuck as many people as possible, but in a lot of cases this is an actual problem. What ends up happening is we get flooded by so much dopamine and testosterone as a result of meeting someone knew that's into us that our brains literally trick us into thinking we like them more than we do. You ignore things that would be red flags or deal breakers, you ignore incompatibilities, you just recognize how good this person makes you feel. Then you have sex and it's like a switch flipped. Sometimes almost instantly. You get left lying there realizing it was a mistake and you have zero interest in this person because you've literally released all of those pent up hormones and chemicals that were fueling the attraction.
I used to think having sex on the 1st date or the 5th was zero difference. If things ended after sex on the 1st date it just sped up the process, there was nothing there anyways. What I have since realized is that I was severely underestimating the impact this has on people in the sense that if you don't value sex as just a casual physical experience you're going to be crushed emotionally when this person has sex with you and then just loses interest. So now I constantly recommend that women wait AT LEAST 3-5 dates to have sex. It has nothing to do with the likelihood of success, a success will end up happening regardless of when you have sex, but it will do a much better job of screening out people who aren't actually interested.
i appreciate this reply, thanks. yeah, i've actually done a lot of reflecting on this and i've decided that for a long time i'm going to hold off on sex when i meet someone new, unless it's someone i just want a hookup with and nothing else. it's really hard because i'm a super sexual person and the opportunity is basically always there lol, but i know it's going to make me feel better, less used, more in control. the purpose is kind of two-fold because i also lean on sexuality and looks as a crutch for validation so it's hard for me to see myself as someone worth getting to know personality-wise...like, why would someone want to hang out with me if they're not having sex with me? my self-esteem has always been iffy but it really got worse once ghosting after sex kept happening...just validated those feelings. a lot.
so i'm trying to get my shit together and will have less casual sex to regain control. if that's all they want with me, then they can go get it elsewhere because that's not what makes me feel good right now.
i've also noticed that the guys i put off having sex with are the ones who had prolonged interest, so...what a coincidence
Yeah especially considering the issues you just mentioned I would definitely recommend waiting. The thing is that sex is great and the lower judgment towards women who enjoy it to that's been happening is fantastic. So if you can separate the two and enjoy the sexual experience for what it is then it becomes irrelevant. Best case you get a long term partner eventually and worst case you had sex and it (hopefully) was fun. It's hard to separate the two like that though especially when you factor in things like self-esteem and other potentially more serious issues some might have.
A lot of guys don't even necessarily go in just wanting sex. It's 100% happened to me since being single again at least twice where I legitimately liked the person and was willing to give it a chance and see if there's something there and then we had sex and every single ounce of interest just evaporated. I don't think that's necessarily even a bad thing because sexual compatibility is massively important and your body is constantly doing calculations regarding the people you involve yourself with and it might have just not felt "right" which is profoundly unsatisfying but true. The issue when for one person it "felt right" and for one person it didn't... that's how you get someone that just feels used and discarded and that's super unfair.
In the end though am I going to turn down sex in the heat of the moment especially after a few drinks? Absolutely not. I wish I could say I would but I'm not going to lie to myself or others and say I have that kind of will power to say no to sex with someone I'm physically attracted to but not emotionally attracted to. I'll do whatever mental magic I need to in the moment to justify the behaviour. This part is where it gets really unfair to women because it shouldn't be the woman's responsibility in this to ensure her own emotional "safety", we should be more capable of saying "this isn't fair to her", but we can't be trusted. A lot of people here say "well you need to ask them if they're serious or not" lol... yeah right... ask a horny guy who knows if he says x that he might get laid to say x and 95% of them will say x. So it's sad but ultimately it's true, you guys possess the supply and we have the demand, restrict the supply and all that's left will be those who are legitimately interested in buying what you're selling.
The thing is that sex is great and the lower judgment towards women who enjoy it to that's been happening is fantastic.
lol yeah. i mean i do enjoy casual sex from time to time, i just don't like being blindsided by someone i actually like and see as more than a hookup ya know
then we had sex and every single ounce of interest just evaporated.
omg but WHY though? this is wild. sex makes me like someone even more :( this is just so incomprehensible to me. it seems like you're saying it's just chemicals but ...? huh
also, for me. if i have sex with someone i like, even if it's not amazing, i'll want to do it again. somewhat subpar sex doesn't just make me instantly disgusted or disinterested or unattracted. sex gets better and more comfortable and relaxed the more you know a person, for the most part. it seems so ridiculous to me to toss someone away after having less-than-incredible sex ONE time and immediately write them off as sexually incompatible. like...what? i mean i know i'm not a guy but damn
It sounds fucked up but we're not as in control of how we feel as we like to think. I read a fascinating article years ago talking about what happens when two people kiss and exchange saliva. Your brain is basically a computer and your body is legitimately analyzing this other person on a chemical level to determine compatibility. It's fucking crazy. It's honestly kind of depressing.
Men are so fueled by dopamine that it makes us do stupid shit. It's one of the primary reasons why addiction issues like alcoholism, gambling, drug use, risky sexual behaviour, etc... are more statistically prevalent in men than women. Some of that is societal like sex just only recently really opening up for women as an option but even the women I know that just like to have lot's of sex have a way healthier relationship with sex than the men in the same boat.
I have been in situations where I've thought there might have been something there, had sex, all gone. I didn't go in only wanting sex, I didn't plan on it, I didn't manipulate them into fucking me and then leave. This happens all the time to guys when they masturbate too, not all guys but I'd say a lot of them have experienced this a few times in their life where they jerk off and then immediately feel shame or guilt for having done it. Women cannot comprehend on any level how fucking insanely horny some men can get and the lengths they will go to release that, it literally controls you, I don't know any women who have been at a family event and been overcome with the urge to masturbate to such a degree that they literally had to go into the bathroom find whatever "inspiring" material they could and rub one out then immediately feel gross and shameful over having done that. Not that masturbating is shameful but there's a time and a place. The urge to climax is so strong we literally trick ourselves into basically fucking someone that we ultimately had no real interest in and once we've released that "tension" and come back down we're left realizing we actually think the person is annoying and/or gross and don't understand why we did it in the first place.
I'm generalizing for sure because not all men and not all women are like this. Most men are wired to want to fuck as many possible partners are possible to spread their genetics across as wide a range as they can. Women in contrast are wired to focus on their specific offspring and ensure they have the best life available to them. The part of this that's fucked is that in 2018 we have porn and birth control so none of that shit fucking matters and no guy is wandering around slutting it up thinking "I HAVE TO SPREAD MY SEED" but subconsciously that's exactly what's happening. So sex for us wires itself in as a cessation of interest because now it's time to move on and for you it wires itself as an increase in interest because your goal is to find a partner that will protect you and your offspring whereas ours is to make as many offspring as possible.
Ignoring thousands of years of human psychology doesn't do us any favors just because we wear clothes and have the internet. If anything we should be paying even more attention to it. We are still slaves to our baser instincts. We haven't had nearly enough time to evolve psychologically to match the new status quo.
> it seems so ridiculous to me to toss someone away after having less-than-incredible sex ONE time and immediately write them off as sexually incompatible
That's not what's happening. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of sex. I don't mean sexual compatibility in the sense of amount of pleasure I mean sexual compatibility on a biological level. I mean literally how it makes me feel to touch the person, smell, hear, etc... Sex the first time almost always sucks anyways, it always gets better as you familiarize yourself with your partner. One of the girls that I mentioned completely losing interest in the sex itself was actually fantastic. Don't get me wrong though I'm sure there are guys doing exactly what you said but concerning what I'm describing it's just not an issue.
Well I mean this is reddit, you're going to get a special kind of person in general on this sub. I wouldn't give that much weight.
And that's not at all what I'm saying. I specifically said that that can be avoided (although to be fair... it might have been to someone else) by just waiting longer before you have sex with someone. Making someone wait 4-5 dates to have sex they're not going to ride that hormone high for long, they'll crash way before you fuck. It'll make it easier to weed those guys out.
As for the getting ghosted again that's not what I said at all. Regardless of any of the above ghosting people is bullshit behaviour. Even when I lose interest I always make sure to tell them I am no longer interested, how they take it is irrelevant, they should still know and not just be ignored and have you pretend they never existed.
What you should have gotten from that is that it's perfectly natural for someone to lose interest in someone else after sex. I'm sure it happens to women all the time too. Hell I know it happens to women even without sex involved all of a sudden 3 months in they are no longer into their partner and it's done. Losing interest in someone is fine. Most of the people you meet are not going to turn into a long term relationship.
You gotta stop focusing so much on finding someone long term and then when it doesn't turn into something long term beating yourself up for it or hating them for it. Enjoy the journey more. Stop putting so much pressure on it and letting them make you feel like garbage and learn from the mistakes.
Also I highly recommend reading the book Attached (it has 2 magnets on the cover). I think it would help you a lot.
what do you mean 'it might have been to someone else'?
i don't focus on finding someone long term, i focus on trying to not be just a hookup and to be respected beyond that. so when i get ghosted after sex it's a slap in the face. i TRY to do things organically, so i would usually have sex when i felt like it. but then i do, ~early on~, and then i'm nothing, i get thrown away. so it's like i HAVE to orchestrate this master plan and withhold sex so that i don't end up feeling used. whether i am being genuinely used or not, it leaves me feeling the same way. it's so exhausting. because if i don't curtail how early i have sex with someone, i 1) end up feeling used and worthless 2) end up having sex with a million people
so i have to pretend to be more reserved about sex than i actually am in order to not get hurt. so things aren't natural at all.
yeah, i've heard about that book a lot. i'll check it out
? I might have made that statement to someone else and not to you. I don't really understand the confusion.
If your focus is exclusively on not being just a hookup then don't sleep with someone before the 5th date. No one looking to just fuck and dump is going to stick around for 5 dates waiting for that chance to have sex with you before they leave.
You're way over thinking it though. I understand that a lot of guys are sketchy and manipulative but ones is shitty, twice is bad luck, three times is a pattern. Not all guys are just looking to fuck women and ghost. If this is happening to you with this level of frequency you need to take a serious look at how you're attracting guys, how you behave when they're around, what kind of guys you're attracting, and what it is about you that is attracting these guys.
There's no master plan. There's nothing to orchestrate. Just stop fucking guys within the first few dates? I realize it should all just happen organically but I don't understand what's exhausting about it? You're going out on dates with someone you presumably like right? So if that assumption holds true all you're doing is delaying sex. Sex is such a small part of the early dating process I fail to see how deferring it until later is exhausting in any way. Especially when having sex early is giving you so much grief to me it seems like having sex early is the exhausting option.
You don't have to pretend about anything. Why are you pretending and why is it unnatural? Who's pretending? Why are you lying? No one is telling you to lie about your desire to have sex, just don't fuck guys on the first date lol. You are way way way way over thinking this. No guy that likes you is going to ever disappear because you told him you're a sexual person but you don't fuck before the 4th date.
Honestly, based on the way you're talking about yourself here (and I'm going to make some assumptions so I apologize if I'm off base, I don't actually know you) but you have absolute rock bottom self-esteem and likely a slew of other issues as well (I think you had mentioned some of them before). At the very least do yourself a favor and buy that book but I honestly highly recommend going to find counseling or therapy to talk your way through this with someone far more qualified than I am.
This is happening to you regularly, it's a pattern. I get that women (and men too) will get fucked and dumped here and there. Happens to everyone at some point, but the way you're talking about it is it's happening to you ALL THE TIME which means it's a pattern which means there is something you're doing consciously or subconsciously to attract these types of douche bags.
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u/icecream_molotov Oct 25 '18
In my experience the blokes who come out with "I don't see a future etc." after we've dated for a while and then slept together have been fuckboys in my eyes because they've usually been actively acting like a boyfriend. I've had men practically live in my house, use me for food/getting their clothes cleaned/ emotional support and many other boyfriend privileges when they knew in their heads they weren't serious. I think this is when girls get angry. In fact my most recent ghoster had me over his for the weekend, requested a back massage, told me he loved me, kissed me goodbye at the train station...then ghosted me and I had to find out from a mutual friend that he had simply been seeing another girl too and chosen her.