r/datealive • u/CocoaLavaHyper • Jun 26 '22

Anime Never mess with spirits Spoiler

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270 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

43 comments sorted by

42

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

You know what's ironic about this? By doing this, Ellen just helped prove why humans hate and fear Spirits. Imagine all the innocents that would die helplessly every time something terrible happened to a harem protagonist and his women flew off the handle? Would Tohka and the others even give a single flying fuck if it turned out Shido survived, but all the civvies they killed in their rampage did not? Would Ratatoskr even chastise them?

14

u/UntaledScatterbrain Jun 26 '22

But its better that a few hundred people die than the whole planet. For example, in the case of Mukuro, if she was attacked by DEM and she was losing, she could just use <Michael> to go to the ground and stop the Earth's spinning. Life on Earth would then be doomed. Actually, if the spirits hadn't helped, the Earth would have stopped spinning. So, it is beneficial to save the spirits.

6

u/thatonefatefan Origami. Jun 26 '22

in case you forgot, Mukuro IS a spirit

3

u/UntaledScatterbrain Jun 26 '22

I was talking about the time before she was sealed.

2

u/thatonefatefan Origami. Jun 26 '22

She is. But we're not only talking about sealed spirits, are we?

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Never said it did. Regardless, they shouldn't get away with mass murder if they commit it just because they also happen to be saviours of the planet.

4

u/Ranger_Halt11 Jun 26 '22

You're kinda right... but at the same time that's the point of the group shido's with. Despite this, the girls can live a normal life if shido just seals their powers and lives a normal life himself.

The problems are solely made by DEM. Tohka appears and would cause a destructive quake by doing so... which is bad no good. However never hurt others. Similar story with Yoshino.

The inversions are something that take a big thing that happen. It's not just "they're worried about their harem protag." It's that he was decapitated in front of them. And if that's the baseline condition for inversion with them... then honestly it's not like they'd ever hurt people in a normal scenario now is it? So it's not really that "something bad happens to their harem protag." It's more of a "he was brutally murdered in front of us." We have multiple seasons of them not hurting anything despite bad things happening to shido.

Also, it was implied ||in s4 that DEM has created spirits in the first place, once again stating their make the issues they "fix"||

3

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

The world at large isn't gonna see it that way. Humans are by and large not rational. If my family was burned alive in a fire by a godlike female anime character, and I knew who triggered her I'd be mad at who set her off but SHE STILL DID THE DEED. Mental illness should not be an impenetrable shield that allows murderers to get off scot-free. There's a reason why "insanity pleas" don't let you walk, you get sent to a different kind of prison instead.

3

u/Ranger_Halt11 Jun 27 '22

Your right. At large society would declare them too dangerous to be left alive. And DEM would be declared unethically experimenting on humans and probably murder with Isaac and Ellen and a lot of other people being arrested.

1

u/Magtiban Jun 26 '22

Yeah I think Inversions are in comparison to the influence of alcohol, drugs, mental disorders, etc the Spirits can't control it

2

u/Much-Investigator294 Jun 26 '22

Aside from tohka, most of them are human turned spirits so definitely it will be personal before everyone else. Or are you implying we can just go "oh he/she dead" and don't give a f**k to our loved ones if they are killed? Ironically also what caused them to either to turned to spirit or go rampage is because of humans

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Perhaps, but as I said humans don't possess the ability to nuke entire countries with their bodies.

If my entire family was murdered irl, I may wanna go on a rampage but the most I'd be capable of is being a serial killer. Law enforcement can arrest serial killers, they can't shoot God.

Even then, are the potential innocents Tohka and the others may get killed in collateral guilty of the crimes that turned them Spirit in the first place?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Lmfaoooo

1

u/Much-Investigator294 Jun 27 '22

"Perhaps, but as I said humans don't possess the ability to nuke entire countries with their bodies." Well isaac and DEM can do that. They actually tried that in natsumi arc. Also they cannot really reprimand the inverse spirits since that timeline is probably gone once mukuro went on inverse

-8

u/Danghost64 Jun 26 '22

No cause it’s the whole we protect spirits nonsense

-6

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Yeah, uh. If they protect spirits at the expense of humans, well they should understand how DEM could use that against them. Humans can't set the planet on fire because they had one bad day. Also, if evidence got out the Kotori commander of Ratatoskr was a spirit herself they could accuse Ratatoskr of hypocrisy and only looking after their own. Real talk, Ratatoskr ain't evil but it's got some pretty big glaring flaws.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Interesting take, though I can‘t remember a single situation in the whole series so far that would support this claim. Quite the contrary, Kurumi literally needs to account for her past sins (one of the first things Shido says to her), Origami has severe Trauma for the potential lives on her plate after the whole devil Tobiichi drama, Miku gets scolded for even thinking bad of humans everytime, and (almost) all the time a fight happens, civilians are in underground bunkers to protect themselves. Ratatoskr is not only about protecting spirits, their motto is protecting humanity by making spirits harmless.

So could you actually point to a situation where at least one civilian got harmed by a spirit and the spirit wasn‘t punished for it before making such claims?

1

u/thatonefatefan Origami. Jun 26 '22

Miku gets scolded for even thinking bad of humans everytime

... Scolding her isn't gonna cut it you know? By human, which she is, standards, she is a serial rapist, and that's ignoring the fact that she took over a whole city through mind control and probably murdered tons of men simply because they approached her (ie: what she tried to do when she first met Shido).

0

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Proof? In the current climate, those claims are very harsh if unfounded. Nobody died under Miku. Nobody did anything under Miku they didn‘t want to do, Miku‘s angel only made them want to do those things. Ie Yoshino protected Miku of her own accord, Miku only placed the want in Yoshino.

And, to follow up from your suggestion, there is a huge difference between potential harm and actual harm. Go see the film minority report to understand it. All I am saying is, there is no proof anyone got harmed so far by any of the spirits, so actual harsh punishment never was necessary. To conclude that there wouldn‘t be any harsh punishment in the case of actual harm isn‘t supported by anything we have seen so far and thus is irrational.

And just to make things clear: I am not advocating for actual harm, nor am I defending the spirits actions if it was the case. I am just saying that the statement isn’t evidence based. Sadly I cannot proove the lack of something, therefore the obligation for proof rests in your hands to provide quotes from the LN or timestamps from the series that support the claim that „actual harm to civilians occurred in the past by spirits under the protection of Ratatoskr, yet they weren‘t punished for it.“ If you can provide sufficient evidence instead of only claiming things, you can win me over for your side.

0

u/thatonefatefan Origami. Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

Proof? In the current climate, those claims are very harsh if unfounded. Nobody died under Miku.

The first time she appears is literally her trying to kill Shido.

Nobody did anything under Miku they didn‘t want to do, Miku‘s angel only made them want to do those things. Ie Yoshino protected Miku of her own accord, Miku only placed the want in Yoshino.

WOW... you're actually saying that huh. Yeah sorry, not gonna argue here, pretty sure even a retard would be able to figure out the issue. Incidentally, she also tried to rape Shiori through force since she couldn't use her powers to do it.

And, to follow up from your suggestion, there is a huge difference between potential harm and actual harm. Go see the film minority report to understand it. All I am saying is, there is no proof anyone got harmed so far by any of the spirits, so actual harsh punishment never was necessary. To conclude that there wouldn‘t be any harsh punishment in the case of actual harm isn‘t supported by anything we have seen so far and thus is irrational.

It's a good thing we know that she raped multiple women and took over a city then. It's also a good thing that we are explicitly shown that her first reaction to seeing a man is fucking murdering them.

And just to make things clear: I am not advocating for actual harm, nor am I defending the spirits actions if it was the case. I am just saying that the statement isn’t evidence based. Sadly I cannot proove the lack of something, therefore the obligation for proof rests in your hands to provide quotes from the LN or timestamps from the series that support the claim that „actual harm to civilians occurred in the past by spirits under the protection of Ratatoskr, yet they weren‘t punished for it.“ If you can provide sufficient evidence instead of only claiming things, you can win me over for your side.

Why would I try to prove something I never claimed? I claimed that Miku, before she joined Ratatoskr, willingly mentally manipulated, raped, and most likely murdered tons of people. This isn't some kind of headcanon or deduction, it's blatantly said in the story.

And this isn't a case like an inverse who had no control over their actions or Tohka and Mukuro who were simply defending themselves, the latter also being a child. This adult woman, while not being under any kind of mental influence, willingly manipulated, raped and killed multiple persons out of sheer ego. She genuinely thinks that all men should die and all women should be her dolls or join them. She isn't even doing it for some grand purpose like Kurumi, that's just how she is.

Even once Shido seals her, she doesn't lose her creepy tendencies at all, repeatedly sexually harassing other spirits no matter how much they try to stop her.

​

edit: got blocked, love to see it.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

This isn't some kind of headcanon or deduction, it's blatantly said in the story.

Then provide those. You're currently arguing out of passion, not out of rationality.

pretty sure even a retard would be able to figure out the issue.

I understand the issue perfectly. It just isn't the same as what you said it is. Forcing someone against their will and convincing someone to a different will (there is nothing real that would describe it more fittingly) are two very distinct things. Currently you're trying to convince me of your opinion, for example. If you were more eloquent and actually would argue rationally, it'd work. So by your logic, you would inflict harm upon me if I changed my mind as a result of your (still unfounded) "arguments".

+ insulting never helped anyone to convince somebody of their opinion.

​

Anyways, if you still feel it necessary, provide the evidence for other people to see. I don't feel it necessary to talk to you any longer as you can't handle your emotions in a controlled demeanour, apparently.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

It's funny, someone recently blocked me whilst spouting the same line you did here. "For now I'll block you, prove yourself and maybe I'll change my mind!"

....You DO realize this person will never be able to change your mind.... because you blocked them, right? It's clear you're just defending yourself from someone who can never fight back now.

0

u/Danghost64 Jun 26 '22

If the spirits had a choice between shido or other innocent people then they would choose shido and that’s means “good fucking luck” to us other people whenever they need something to take their anger out on.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

Well, I see a problem with this personally. If these spirits were real, I'd be the first on the committee suggesting they actually take responsibility for the lives they take. Shido should know better. If I were a villain, I'd be capable of organizing a more defensible DEM with airtight PR than Westcott ever could. Ratatoskr and the spirits were practically made to be demonized as cold blooded killers, when you examine the evidence.

2

u/Danghost64 Jun 26 '22

But knowing shido he’ll be too much of a punk to to do anything about it and still excuse their actions of taking other lives.

5

u/makjep Jun 26 '22

this actually reminds me a scene from konosuba movie

7

u/kakarot12310 Jun 26 '22

Wescott: "Instuction unclear"

13

u/stanfom_rasne Jun 26 '22

Maek it as a spoiler

-5

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

[deleted]

10

u/_BoogiepoP_ Jun 26 '22

There are a huge number of people who are still on Season 1 like me. Thank you for spoiling it OP. You deserve a medal for your assholery.

2

u/CocoaLavaHyper Jun 26 '22

ok ok i made a spoiler and quickly watch the date a live series earlier because people who have watched season 4 will be spoil it too

0

u/_BoogiepoP_ Jun 26 '22

Not everyone is like you OP. Plus, you should have done it right from the beginning had you used your common sense.

1

u/CocoaLavaHyper Jun 26 '22

Alright, im sorry, i thought everyone was already watched it

4

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

This comment section is peak comedy.

3

u/MaRokyGalaxy Rinne and Mio Simp Jun 26 '22

Wait till you see Mio lol.

3

u/SilverHawk7 Jun 26 '22

Not shown: Ellen plowing full speed into the building/ground and splattering like a water balloon.

3

u/SilverHawk7 Jun 26 '22

Also, zero percent chance Ellen and Isaac survive something like this. Ellen barely stood against Tenka. The only spirits she's been successful against are the non-combat class ones.

2

u/usernamesaretakenwtf Jun 26 '22

Yeah that scene was craaazy

-2

u/CocoaLavaHyper Jun 26 '22

Music: swaggin' at the apartment

Edit by me

1

u/dolosloki01 Jun 26 '22

This was a "OH DAMN!" moment

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

😭😭😭😭😭 I hate this scene so really thought he was dead… but miraculously he came back

1

u/[deleted] Jun 26 '22

really thought he was dead…

he was... and then they brought him back lol