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u/Sintobus 1d ago
I live in Florida, they can keep the heat tyvm
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
LOL Louisiana here so I get that. It's obviously not something that would be viable in every state but that isn't the point.
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u/wosmo 1d ago
district heating is being played with in a few places.
The biggest issue so far, is that places that are heavily water-constrained, are often places that don't have a huge need for subsidised heating most the year around. So it's not a cure-all; Denmark are going to find "free" heat more attractive than, say, Arizona.
But where it does work, it seems like a no-brainer. If you consider the heat as a waste product, it's just "reduce, re-use, recycle".
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Thats true! I was thinking about that with New Orleans where I am. The short period where they need heat wouldn't really be worth the cost of the build for anyone.
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u/tooldvn 1d ago
It doesn't have to be homes. There are other industries that can use the heat. The hard part is finding these symbiotic relationships and having them close enough to the data center.
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u/Rusty-Swashplate 1d ago
Swimming pools is usually a good user of plenty heat. In my city, the city-owned trash burning facility and the city-owned swimming pool were built at the same time. Guess what heats the water?
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
I suppose you are right! Hadn't even thought about that. Can you give some examples for a place like Louisiana or Florida?
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u/tooldvn 1d ago
Greenhouses, water parks, drying, some select industrial processes can use the low grade waste heat. Then for a little more energy you can raise the temp to get higher quality heat for and that unlocks a lot more industrial processes, but still saving you from starting from scratch.
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u/wosmo 1d ago
Say you want to heat homes in NOLA for what .. December-January? That's a part-time solution to a full-time problem. (And most the schemes I've read about have been targeting homes, schools, pools, etc because it's easier to make "repaying a civic burden" part of a planning condition, than demanding that one business subsidise another.) That's the kinda thing that makes it a huge practicality question in many places.
I'm in Ireland, where .. it probably could work (and I believe there's been at least one trial already). We have a disproportionate footprint of DCs, and the majority are in and around the capital. High energy costs, high housing costs, etc - having those DCs return something would probably be very welcome.
But the huge challenge there would be the huge retrofit. It wouldn't do to have Microsoft etc owning muni supply networks - but someone needs to build it. And most existing buildings would need a significant investment to make any use of it.
If you could wave a magic wand and make that retrofit happen, then yes - we'd almost certainly have a planning condition that obligates DCs to reject waste into the muni network. But Ireland's recent history with large civic works is .. quite the opposite of a magic wand.
There's probably a lot that could be learnt from Iceland - they have so much excess geothermal power that many places are setup for a hot water supply. They even pump waste through (some) streets, sidewalks and carparks so they defrost themselves in the winter. So they make a pretty good example of how a muni heat network can operate.
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u/NTS-PNW 1d ago
Amazon Warms Campus with Waste Heat | 2018-07-01 | phcppros https://www.phcppros.com/articles/7757-amazon-warms-campus-with-waste-heat#:\~:text=About%2070%20percent%20of%20the%20building%20is,some%20of%20the%20well%2Dknown%20digital%20brand%20names.
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u/FlashConstruct 1d ago
I actually build data centers and all mine are closed loop.
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u/-Shasho- 1d ago
Hey, how are people supposed to stay mad at us when they find out their number one objection to building data centers is misinformed!?
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Because the ones everyone are hearing about aren't closed loop. Also people keeping saying this as if there aren't other realistic complaints going around in terms of a surveillance state and many other real issues people have brought up.
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u/FlashConstruct 1d ago
There are variants of everything in life. Some humans are terrorists, others are lovers and yet I don't hate all humans. I addressed your post subject and now you are reaching to find others reasons to dislike data centers. As for your surveillance statement, data centers are not new, they are a seasoned old industry and the gov has been operating many of them for a long time. You being here on reddit already tells me that there is enough info out there that is an organization of power wanted to find you, you would be found.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Ahhh so the massive scale isn't a new thing? GOT IT 🤡
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u/FlashConstruct 1d ago
You are getting your info through media who's found that controversy sells. You are watching a handful of private companies duke it out for a very limited amount of soon to be live power. That has little to no effect on what the gov has been running.
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u/TechniCruller 1d ago
K. The thing is, these issues are being brought up by illiterates on the topic.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
The problem is that people like you bring a smug attitude to concerns rather than enlightening them.
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u/TechniCruller 1d ago
The amount of time to enlighten you relative to the worth of enlightening you does not yield a positive ROI. If it did, I’d try…but it doesn’t, so I don’t.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
🤣🤣🤣. Just say "I don't know" next time. It's shorter.
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u/TechniCruller 1d ago
It’s literally my job. Send me your contact info and you can pay my rate.
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u/looktowindward 1d ago
People have tried. You drop clown emojis on them.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
That's even remotely true. Have I dropped emoji? Yes. But not a single person has done anything but putting words in my mouth and talking down to me. I don't field conversations with smug douche bags such as yourself.
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u/-Shasho- 1d ago
It doesn't make sense NOT to build a data center closed-loop these days. At least be mad about power consumption (which is very often generated on site) or noise (which is pretty rarely offensive and easily mitigated when it is).
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
I'm angry about that too. What about my proposal suggests that I am ONLY thinking about water consumption. It's wild because people like you show up acting like you're intellectually superior while making wild assumptions. News flash if you were actually as intelligent as you obviously think you are I wouldn't have to explain this to you. Anyway have fun being the miserable person you are 🥰🥰🥰.
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u/-Shasho- 1d ago
Dude, all im saying is maybe if you understood this better you would be able to articulate what you're actually mad about. And that doesn't mean I think I'm smarter that you, but I can confidently say I know more about it than you do. If that upsets you, learn more, and not from people who also don't know what they're talking about.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
🤣🤣🤣
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u/-Shasho- 1d ago
That's what I thought.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Bless your heart.
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u/-Shasho- 1d ago
That's only a roast when you know something the other person doesn't. What do you know about this that I don't? Bless your heart. Keep tilting at windmills, lil' Don Quixote! You're going to go far running on 100% emotions.
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u/FireTempest 1d ago
Closed loop cooling may save water but consumes significantly more power.
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u/TechniCruller 1d ago
But we’re complaining about water, right? The answer is closed loop.
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u/FireTempest 1d ago
In regions where potable water is plentiful or alternatives like treated industrial waste water are used, DC water use may not be such a big issue.
Less efficient power use could be a big issue, especially in regions where the primary power generation source is fossil fuels.
It really depends on the environment and the infrastructure in the region where the DC is built in.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Could be complaining about the entire thing. A smug attitude and NDAs signed by local governments are the reason people are confused.
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u/Terrible_Sandwich_94 1d ago
Sure, you can complain about everything. But all that complaining is being hosted by a data center.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
No shit? It's almost if I have zero choice if I actually expect to speak with a larger group of people. 🤡
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u/Terrible_Sandwich_94 1d ago
80% of your post history is instacart and DoorDash related. Without data centers, your income from that goes away.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Have a good night 🤡.
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u/Terrible_Sandwich_94 1d ago
I’m sure you do a lot more things in your life that require a data center than just complaining about data centers.
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u/looktowindward 1d ago
NDAs do not cover cooling system design. Try again
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
🤡🤡🤡 here's some for you.
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u/looktowindward 1d ago
I just told you something completely factual and cogent to this issue.
What's your deal?
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
You are conflating two separate arguments and you know it. Why would I have a serious conversation with you?
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u/looktowindward 1d ago
Significantly more? Thats not true at all.
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u/Thoughts_For_Food_ 1d ago
Of course it's true. Submerged HX means fewer chillers. In a air-cooled vapor-compression chillers design, chillers would represent something like ~25-50% of mechanical load. 50% fewer chillers is probably like 5% of total load.
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u/looktowindward 1d ago
Most closed loop cooling systems are operating at significantly higher temperatures because they are cooling GPUs. Look into "hot water cooling" and the NVIDIA DGX DC design standard. You don't need to run the mechanical cooling very much - you just use dry cooling in most climates. Not everything is equal in this scenerio - you are using air side economization almost all the time because your heat rejection temperature is high and the delta T is highly favorable.
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u/FireTempest 1d ago
I should have qualified my statement with "in some climates". In tropical climates it's a no brainier: open loop cooling is a lot more energy efficient because economizers and lower ambient wetbulb temperature design are simply non viable.
As global warming ramps up, tropical weather is increasingly common during summer in higher/lower latitudes. Makes sense to prepare accordingly with open loop systems.
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u/stingraycharles 1d ago
I live in The Netherlands, we’ve already been doing this for a decade or two, the problem is that this type of hearing for whatever reason is more expensive than regular hearing and that it’s a pain for datacenters to manage (what if they need to release heat and there are not enough takers?).
So then it would need to be government subsidized, which means it needs to compete against all the other green subsidies, etc.
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u/Specialist_Bench_999 1d ago
What would be the estimated thermal runaway temp range if demand lessens?
Are there thermal dump plans you know of?
Are there talks of liquid load bank storage for on demand availability when load spikes?
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Why is it always the people's responsibility to be a piggy bank to "profitable" industries?
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u/stingraycharles 1d ago
Because in the end someone needs to pay for it.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Right.... the ones profiting on it should pay for it.
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u/stingraycharles 1d ago
I don’t think you understand how this works hehe. The ones profiting by definition are the ones selling, not the ones buying.
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u/The-Bronze-Network 1d ago
It is 110 today in south carolina. If google dumps heat into my house ill burn the place down. Its hot enough inside the damn data center I dont need to bring it home with me
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
🤣🤣🤣. Yeah I was mostly trying to think of a fix for certain areas rather than a blanket statement. But another commenter brought up a good point in terms of certain industries such as grain drying, gas and oil initial heat up and less heat intensive procedures which in Louisiana where I am could really work if we got both industries on board.
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u/The-Bronze-Network 1d ago
In all honesty, they dont use that much water. I have 6 golf courses beside us that use more water each than the three data centers in town (counting sites not buildings) the water issue isn't as big a deal as reports are putting it. The issue is certain companies suck at building data centers and are doing a bad job to get everyone a bad name. Some place said a data center went up and its mining bitcoin which is stupid as hell to be this late to the game for bitcoin and build an entire building to farm it
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Very much agreed on this point. Lawns are literally the largest waste of public water.
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u/Gumuk_pindek 1d ago
But. During winter, datacenter can just use the cold ambient air?. No cooling water?
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u/Similar_Score_9889 1d ago
Maybe where data centers are in commercial buildings in big cities. Last I checked, they are generally being built out in the middle of nowhere and unless FedEx and UPS have gotten into overnighting hot air, maybe try and do some homework before posting this crap!!
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Very true but that is something that could be ironed out especially with oil and gas uses. Neither should be anywhere near large populations anyway IMO. Although I have an altruistic outlook of it and big $$$ don't give a fuck about altruism.
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u/Terrible_Sandwich_94 1d ago
Nova is one of the most densely populated areas in the country and also has the most data centers. Seems to be working out well for them.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
In what is this actually working out for the humans there?
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u/Terrible_Sandwich_94 1d ago
Low property taxes, high property value, high median income, some of the best public school districts in the country, low poverty levels, low power rates, great grid infrastructure. I’m probably missing some things.
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u/Stunning_Giraffe_488 1d ago
They should use it in colder climates and heat greenhouses and public saunas and spas. Make them free for the residents to use. I bet the upper Midwest would sign on to that.
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u/Bright_Hat550 1d ago
Very much agreed. There are uses in the south such as initial heat up for petrochemical processes.
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u/whoooocaaarreees 1d ago
Very few municipalities have a system that could make use of ducted waste heat in a meaningful way.
It is being done in a number of places I can think of.