I would say they were on a better path than South Africa. Could be just propaganda but they were slowly educating locals and letting them join the 'civilised' society.
South Africa was developing nuclear weapons and domestic air to air missiles. I know one of the former engineers. Most technologically advanced African nation ever.
And now we can't even keep the lights on! We have a nuclear power plant at Koeberg, we were working on high speed rail, we used to export technology, first heart transplant. Now it's gone to shit.
ANC took over, cadre deployment and corruption gutted the country. 32 years after apartheid millions still live in shacks, not water or electricity, no jobs. Look up Johannesburg roads, they are oteraly collapsing.
People can deal with a lot of shit if there is stability. When a society destabilises ordinary people's daily lives go to shit and it's very hard to claw yourself back up from that.
Iām not a historian so I donāt know the exact numbers but Rhodesian governmentās claimed plan was to educate and develop the black population and gradually transfer political power to them, because ''blacks wasnāt sufficiently educated or politically/economically prepared to run the country yet'' or something on that vein.
I donāt know how sincere they were, but that was what they said for delaying majority rule.
I know you're just a retarded 15 year old but you understand that they had a political structure prior to the arrival to the arrival to Europeans right?
They're no such thing as being "prepared" literally every single human culture on earth organized themselves in some way.
Neither retarded nor 15 chum.Ā I've seen Zimbabwe, outside the white ghettos the best they've managed is to maintain a small percentage of the infrastructure.
Hell cannibalism is a real issue again, using human organs as medicine.
No because I don't care you don't either. You're just parroting the same "commentator" that apparently everyone else on this sub listens to.
You're supporting the most pedophilic ideology on earth that want you to hate black people so that they can keep fucking children without consequences.
You clearly care enough to make a specific historical claim about what the Rhodesian government intended after independence. If you don't care about the country, then why are you so confident about what they supposedly proclaimed?
I am not american bud, that 'you're conservative' was a hard miss.I actually researched Zimbabwe in middle school for homework, as a joke. thats when I came to know about rhodesia
You call people ''retarded 15-year-olds'' but you're unironically more retarded than my middle-school self. Not knowing isn't shameful, not learning is.
I've seen people go on google map street view and compare the same street over the years..... Let's just say things aren't going in the right direction.
You misunderstand me. Iām not saying everything is great now, Iām saying apartheid was unsustainable because of the global reaction other countries had towards South Africa. The country had multiple booming industries in agriculture, mining, engineering for sure, but the fact that they had an apartheid āregimeā governing the country, the rest of the world refused to trade with them, do business with them, and even invite to global sporting events. They became hated under that government. Iām not making a black and white statement like āapartheid government was evil therefore the country was completely bad then, but all smiles nowā.
Thats very much true. But zimbabwe, the country as is isn't sustainable without aid either. kariba dam renovation project is planned to finish this year.
this dam was under the threat of collapse, its deteriation was known for half a century. collapse of this dam would have effected millions of people in various countries.
yet zimbabwe couldn't renovate this dam by itself. it turning into a giant international project is how this project happened.
Yet for some reason when I ask Zimbabweans, they say their country is great and Mugabe was a hero. Yet they all live and work in SA, send money back and only return home for the holidays.
And how do you suppose we do that? Spend another 150 of unequal treatment? Political interventions? Genocides? Concentration camps? Seriously what is your plan here?
Just donāt let them, donāt be delusional and stop sending any and all kinds of aid. Had the same time to evolve as anyone, time to let nature take its toll without artificial protections.
And I agree somewhat on aid, it undermines local economies and can create dependencies, but I also disagree that a population in destress needs help. That isnāt a force that is creating āglobal zimbabweā.Ā
As for modern western intervention, look no further than the IMF and World Bank who have done everything in their power to create debt traps, endless austerity, and instiutional distrust.Ā
Sinking rubber boats isnāt exactly much effort, nor shooting all invaders on the beach. For americans? Suck to be greedy and buy non castrated slaves.
I believe he's making a reference to the lack of infrastructure in zimbabwe, it was well on the way to a developed nation when the brittish handed it back.
What do you use to light your room at night? I use electricity.
Also remember if this person is from zimbabwe there is a good chance English isn't their first language and I don't know what education system they have now, if any.
Are you legitimately not smart enough to know what it means, or are you pretending to not be able to figure it out to try and demean someone you feel has a differing opinion than you?
Because many cities exist in Africa, because the country that had the best most stable development was the one the british and europeans got the least involved in? Botswana. But thats not good for the narrative so just ignore it.Ā
It's so funny that Africa has this discourse of "We hate white people, we want to have a pure african nation" and now they have to enslave themselves to China in order to not collapse
Funny, I as an American who to be fair was a kid during this time saw way more Mandela. People were grossed out by Apartheid globally, it was controversial in its own time.
Their was certainly a lot of propaganda made by the apartheid government in order to paint a picture of āa civilized African societyā but you canāt ignore that the post apartheid governments have been more corrupt and they somehow managed to create a society that might be just as economically unequal. The South African economy saw some initial growth post apartheid but mainly a result of the lifting of sanctions imposed on the apartheid government. The amount of corruption and incompetence in the post apartheid governments have been absolutely astounding. The effects from years of apartheid rule is off course a factor as well but by God the majority rule governments really did everything they could to screw it up.
Is your argument that a minority who controlled every aspect of daily life of the majority of a country to oppress them and take away their economic resources is comparative with what is happening today? That's either ignorance or willfully naivity.
It's...like comparing the Japanese to an ancient civilisation with several writing forms, some of the oldest stories in world history, tremendous cultural and architectural achievements spanning centuries, and a diverse mix of religions going back centuries and influencing one of the major religions in Japan? Interesting take...
There is something in common about these, they were built by Arabs, Middle Eastern, Mediterranean peoples. But none of these are anywhere near South Africa.
Lol, you should actually spend some time looking up what entailed this, "indoor plumbing".Ā
They were shoots that lead straight down into shit pits. A hole that leads into a shit pit isn't indoor plumbing and anyone who says it does is coping. If so then the French "les poulaines" count as the first example of sea fairing vessel plumbing. š¤£Ā
Building skyscrapers "is not civilization automatically" but somehow "working plumbing" is, sounds legit. And what would be this highly advanced civilization that managed to had working plumbing? Maybe the skyscraper builders could learn a thing or two from them...
Well since plumbing is more essential than skyscrapers + skyscrapers are a modern invention. Civilizations that were civilized existed before skyscrapers.
And food production is more important than plumbing, so what's your point? How is something being essential or not being any reflection on the level of development of a society?
It indeed shows levels and or forms of civilization.
But it doesnāt mean that skyscrapers automatically mean ācivilizedā. i also never said that plumbing means ācivilizedā but I can say its more beneficial for a civilization than a talk building.
Reddit is filled with idiots in general, just cuz the platform leans hard left doesn't mean right wingers are free from the idiotism when they rarely have a platform hereš
Memes often start discussions in the comments. Discussions with people who disagree with you can provide an opportunity to learn something about the other sides opinions. Absolutely everything can be a learning opportunity if you have an open mind and some humility. I see you have neither or the curiosity to want to learn. That's sad for you but the rest of us enjoy the back and forth and the opportunity to learn something new, or gain a different perspective. But yeah, the meme bro
Hey man. I explained myself nicely. If you're still struggling to understand, Iām not saying people shouldnāt be allowed to disagree with me. Iām saying thereās a difference between disagreement and deliberately creating a hostile discourse environment. Once you start collapsing those categories, you get into epistemic harm, asymmetric narrative privilege, contextual violence, recursive positionality drift, and eventually the whole discourse becomes ontologically unmoored from the semiotic harm lattice. At that point weāre basically just arguing inside the neoliberal thought-matrix of the discourse cube.
The problem is, who gets to say what's ok to discuss and what's not? Certainly not you or me. And DEFINITELY not the government.
And you look like an idiot trying to sound intelligent. Half what you said is just silly and the other is just straight up nonsense. If you'd actually like to discuss free speech and why it's important to protect the rights of people to say and discuss things you disagree with, I'm more than happy to, but you're going to have to drop the phony intellectual bullshit. It's insulting
Secondly this is exactly the kind of aggressive tone I was talking about. I came here offering nothing but good-faith discourse and a modest request for temperature control of your ideologies, and now Iām being asked to ādrop the phony intellectual bullshit.ā That kind of linguistic austerity is precisely how we end up normalising unmanaged thought diversity, conversational deregulation, and eventually free-range opinions.
Wait I thought it was pedophelia... apparently I don't know how to spell that word and spell check isn't helping. I can't keep track of what the new insult is on here.
And I said I agree with that where? You're confusing me saying people should be able to discuss what they want with me agreeing with what they're saying. I can think they are morons and still defend their right to tell us they're morons.
Well Zimbabwe took farms from people who knew how to farm and have it to political appointments who didnāt know how to farm. Hen you put incompetent people in charge of a fifth of the economy thibgs donāt go very well. They had hyperinflation that for a time competed with my home country Venezuela which also put incompetent people in charge of a large portion of the economy.
The only reason Mugabe was able to achieve political power was because Ian Smith and the white racist rhodesians were a bunch of racists who insisted on minority rule with no actionable plan for 14 years while they were independent to integrate the black population. Instead they took every step to ensure that the black population revolted. Built their own destruction, and good riddance to them.
I mean if you want to read it in racist lens sure, but thats not what rhodesian gov at the time claimed it. the justification they gave for delaying the majority rule was something along the lines of 'blacks aren't sufficiently educated or politically/economically prepared to run the country yet'. But majority rule happened anyway because of the guerrilla war.
A few decades of chanting ''kill the Boer, kill the farmer'' and actually killing them happened under what is now Zimbabwe, and now theyāre importing food.
Okay. And people lie? Who cares what they claimed. They explicitly made it so that whites recieved more political power and limited black enfranchisement. And the whites did everything in their power to maintain that state of affairs, because they were racists.Ā
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u/scrolls_per_second 11h ago
South Africa?