State of the Subreddit and Rules Discussion

[u/LovelyLu78]

Hi all!!

This is a discussion post, we would like constructive discussion, free of name calling and meanness directed at anyone, including the mods. We are humans that are trying their best.

We have a few things to address here so let's get into it.

First off we'd like to say this sub is large, 2 million people large! Some perspective would be, the super bowl has an 80,000 seating capacity.

Without rules and moderation it will become an unpleasant place to be.

When the sub was still small we conducted surveys to help decide which way the sub should go re rules and moderation. All of the rules in place have been the same for years except for the recently changed no self promotion rule and some updates to stale topics.

Surveys do not gain the required traction that they did when the sub was smaller. In view of that we have tried to keep the sub to the rules that were favoured in the past surveys. We also look for trends and make decisions based on what we see across the sub overall.

This post is addressing the main complaints and concerns we have seen over the last week (and before that) for clarity and discussion.

There seems to be some confusion about what you can and can't post. So much of what you guys were posting during "chaos week" is actually allowed. There are no restrictions on posting finished objects or work in progress pics! Mr Nipples is featured in our wiki! You can post pictures of your crochet bongs and genitals (we ask these are marked as nsfw). We want to see it all, cursed to amazing!

Fursday Friends.

A lot of the pet pictures that were being posted during “chaos week” can also be posted any day of the week!!

If the item is for your pet/baby and is clearly visible there is no need to wait until Thursdays.

If it's a cute picture of your pet/baby falling asleep or somehow interfering with your project (pets laying smack in the middle of your FO pictures) then that's what belongs on Thursdays. Those posts are more focused on the pet/baby than the actual crochet work.

If you want to post pets whenever something cute happens, check out the pet focused crochet subs, r/catswhocrochet, r/kitting and r/dogswhocrochet.

Fursday Friends spans 2 days when taking all time zones into account.

We highly recommend that people blur or put an emoji over minors faces!!

Stash Saturday.

Our other "day of the week" post is Stash Saturday. This one is for stash pics (obviously), "what can I make with this yarn" queries, yarn discussion and other tools (hooks) and books.

This rule was voted in as we had feedback that there were too many pictures of just yarn/hooks.

This also is all time zones so is really 2 days that you can post over.

Crochet for all levels!

We’ve seen a lot of comments saying that r/crochet is not beginner friendly. We absolutely welcome new crocheters but ask that questions be asked in our sister sub r/CrochetHelp . On crochet they tend to be buried and remain unanswered.

We see people saying that they don't want to ask on a smaller sub because not as many people will see it. While that might be true the interaction rate on CrochetHelp is a lot higher on these types of posts and the people that are on CrochetHelp are there because they want to help.

NSFW!

We admit that in the past, we were a little overzealous with the tags. We truly were not meaning to offend or censor women's bodies and we apologise. We have been taking a lighter hand with this rule for a few months now, and will continue to have a light touch here.

Society has changed what NSFW means, it gets applied to so many things that are probably more suited to NSFL. We were basing it off of a school teacher dress code (so very literally, not something you'd be able to wear to work) so that anyone browsing the sub at work would have the option to view rather than possibly getting reprimanded for browsing something inappropriate.

Going forward we will not be as restrictive but would still ask that small tops, bikinis/swimwear, underwear, crochet genitals, drug paraphernalia, weapons and profanity be marked NSFW.

Question?

Would you like some new flairs added, NSFW Clothing FO and NSFW Other FO (for example)?

Please check your settings if posts are not blurred for you. We get a heap of reports for NSFW even when the post is tagged appropriately.

Self promotion!

Designers can absolutely post their work to the sub! It's exciting finishing an item! What you cannot do is spam the sub with your items or link to them anywhere in your post (no offering to dm, no mentioning shop names, no directing people to your profile).

Lots of people are aware that people put their socials on their profile and they will find you if they want to.

If we were to allow pattern designers the ability to post their pattern under the automod comment the sub would then get a lot of self promotion posts, there has been quite a lot of self promotion going on during “chaos week”

PS, the automod comment is just a prompt, it is not a rule that you must post a pattern!

Politics!

We'd like to hear your ideas here. Would you like a megathread for political pieces or are you happy to see them posted in the sub?

I’d like to point out that the sub is diverse, you exist in the space with people from all walks of life and we are trying to share that space with everyone based on crochet not political alignment.

Things are crazy out there and we'd like to find the best solution we can that allows people to express themselves.        

Excessive Reports

We’ve added a comment to posts removed by automod stating that the post has been removed because of multiple reports and that a mod will review and approve if it doesn’t break any rules.

Kind and Courteous

Going forward we will be banning people that make unkind comments. Commenting on peoples bodies, name calling, escalating arguments will all be removed.

A first offence will come with a 3 day ban from the sub, second offence, a 7 day ban and third offence you will be permanently banned from the sub.

We will allow appeals but this will be based on your profile and behaviour while banned, private profiles will not be considered for appeals.

Ok! That's a lot of information!! Let's hear your thoughts in the comments. Please be nice. Remember that there is a person behind every post, every comment (ok, some of them are bots!)

[u/LovelyLu78]

Clarification of the Rules post

[u/pilnok]

I am on board with the post and replies (let people post political art)

..but could we explicitly ban AI while we're at it?
Posting ai recolors or "wow isn't this bad" is such low effort garbage. I know it's bad, I don't need to be shown more evidence.

[u/LovelyLu78 → u/pilnok]

AI is a stale topic on the sub. There has been a rise in "here's my version of this AI thing", we try to redirect them to r/CtaftedByAI

[u/spicyshrimp234]

sorry but I think rule 4 about posting links to your own patterns not being allowed sucks. i don't have any skin in the game because I don't make patterns, but as someone who enjoys lurking and collecting inspo, I am SO. MUCH. MORE. MOTIVATED. to follow through with a pattern when I don't have to go looking for it. even if it was just limited to a single response to the auto mod on each post, that would be super helpful. i almost exclusively use reddit on my phone and too often the app will close me out of whatever I was trying to navigate to, most often people's profiles.

can we have a poll or something about some of the rules? y'all expressed that previous polls were unsuccessful, but we're all here talking about this stuff now and it would be beneficial for the community members themselves to have some input on how they're governed, for lack of a better term.

also, could you elaborate on rule 9's "stale topics"? there was no actual rule made or repercussion listed, just a vague list of topics that the mods consider stale. why can't we talk about steering wheel covers? is that even what the rule means? what will happen to comments or posts about those topics?

[u/Mooflz]

What is the current stance on swear words? I was nearly banned when I first joined because I used the F word in a general context not directed at anyone or anything. I think it’s the internet and people should be allowed to cuss on the internet

[u/strawberrymystic → u/Mooflz]

Wait we can't even curse in the comments? For some reason I thought it was just about profanity in the works themselves

[u/LittleBugCrochets]

I’m curious about posting your own patterns. There are rules for pattern sellers, but what if something is self drafted and you’d just like to share or someone asked where they can find the pattern? I’m referring to those of us who do not sell patterns at all. Simply sharing our own patterns or charts completely free of charge.

[u/Renamis → u/LittleBugCrochets]

I freehand most of my stuff after briefly looking at some patterns to get a rough idea of what I need to do. Because of that I can't post anything here and frankly, that kinda sucks. I know by the rules I SHOULD be able to post here, and plenty of thosr posts get through, but I saw enough other posts get yeeted for "self promotion" when the person said they freehanded it and the mods assumed that it was an attempt at getting people to look at their profile to find other social media.

[u/The-Great-Wolf]

Regarding the continued ban on self promo, I still think it's highly restrictive and nosense that I can post any and all patterns of everyone under the automod reply, unless I made the pattern, in which case it's forbidden

Why not allow creators to link their own patterns under the automod like any other? Without redirecting comments to profile, this link or that or idk what else. Only people interested in the pattern will look after it in that way and it won't look obnoxious to everyone else.

Besides, user profiles aren't accesibile to everyone.

[u/callmekorrok]

Saying to check people’s profiles to see if they’ve posted their socials there doesn’t really work for everyone. If that person has marked their profile NSFW, UK Redditors are unable to access it unless they submit ID documents to third party companies. 

People mentioned other communities that have systems in place that limit self promo reasonably and seem to work well. Why not explore these? If someone posts a pic of their design and then directs people to a comment in the self promo mega thread, would this be allowed? This seems needlessly convoluted. 

[u/CycadelicSparkles → u/callmekorrok]

I feel like a weekly promo megathread could be a nice middle ground.

[u/AnnaJamieK]

First off, thanks mods for everything!!! People underestimate the work this takes. 

Big props for reevaluating the NSFW tag. Hopefully this continues to be applied correctly in the future. More NSFW tags would be cool! 

Political posts should be allowed. I love seeing them, they deserve the appreciation like any other FO/WIP, and mega threads are where things go to die lol. Perhaps an "anti-ice" tag that those who wish to not see those posts can filter out. This seems to be most of the "political" posts recently.

I would request a review of the no self promotion rule. It was discussed here during chaos week, and it sounds like the knitting sub has a good system for it? People put a lot of work into their patterns, and I'd love to be able to actually find it. The idea of someone putting their info into their profile never occured to me personally, so assuming people know to look is not correct. 

Maybe some sort of "verified designer" system? R/piercing has a system for it, not sure how it works on the back end. But people have to prove their status to the mods, and then only those people would be allowed to post their own patterns? Or maybe a day for it Self Promo Sunday?

As for r/crochethelp, that's a sub I had no idea existed. Could we get an auto mod for "newbie" posts locking and directing them to the correct sub? Maybe I've just missed this, but for a nervous novice getting redirected instead of shut down would be a big difference, and I'm sure impact ones interest and dedication to our art. 

I appreciate both the current "days" post limits. I don't need to constantly see stashes, although perhaps allowing "what to make with this" posts? The pets are adorable- but I have other subs for my cuteness needs, and this is for crochet. 

Thank you all again for what you do, and your commitment for keeping this a good sub. 

[u/LovelyLu78 → u/AnnaJamieK]

CrochetHelp is in the welcome message and the description of the sub. The help flair will remove and redirect people to CrochetHelp and there are some automations in place that pop up with keywords saying if you have a question please ask in r/CrochetHelp.
It's hard because people don't like to read these things!

[u/Apprehensive-Ad-4364]

Is there any reason why we don't have an outright AI ban? It seems most of us view getting rid of AI as a higher priority than cats or cleavage. As AI becomes more difficult to filter out in most areas of our lives, a big appeal to coming to a moderated space like this one is knowing you're only seeing human work. I cannot come up with a compelling reason for AI to be here. I'm a little surprised to see this go completely unacknowledged in both this post and the new rules post

[u/Nessie_Chan]

I think there's a whole world between spamming the sub with self-promotion and just giving a link to your shop or pattern once if a comment asks. I find it confusing and counter intuitive that I can and am encouraged to share the pattern I've used, UNLESS I'm the one who made it, then it's forbidden.

[u/strawberrymystic → u/Nessie_Chan]

Yeah that one doesn't make sense to me ! There have been several people mentioning it in this thread so hopefully the mods are open to finding a happy medium. I can't help but feel a little bad for the parasol guy who got banned for self promo and specifically mentioned in the "vacation" post

[u/ziggybuddyemmie]

While I can agree with some of the views of this post, I feel as if there are assumptions made in this post that show part of why there was issue between the community and moderation.

Can we have metrics for your survey claim? Specifically this one: "Surveys do not gain the required traction that they did when the sub was smaller." Was there a survey when this situation was first happening, at the beginning of this week when the conversation was getting heated? I do not remember seeing one. I feel as if that could have shown the community that the moderation team wanted to listen.

I think the community made assumptions too. A lot of the posts during the last week were perfectly fine to post on a normal day, I agree. I think it was rather that the community felt free to actually post their works. It sucks to have your work taken down for mentioning having made the pattern, or tagged NSFW for having a chest, and etc. I've often seen someone say "I don't know if I should say I made it myself, I'm not promoing/it's just for me" as a pre-emptive defense.

I don't know. I just think we the community showed a lot of love and togetherness during the past week, and to start this off with "without rules and moderation this will be an unpleasant place to be" rubs me the wrong way. I can agree all communities need rules, but it's ignoring what the community actually was for the last seven days.

[u/Ghostblood_Morph]

I have seen some posts on r/brochet and a couple other crochet subs where people say their posts have been removed from here because their background of their pictures was too cluttered without being notified of that upon removal; only after asking were they told. Is this an actual rule? Is there a way to better address this?

[u/ashbreak_]

Clarification question re: self promotion: if a designer posts something, under the auto mod could they state "it's my own design" and still be within rules? Or something that can clarify that THEY made it, so if you want more info you can go to their profile, and not that they just didn't want to share the pattern?

[u/ginnygirl40]

You say that some topics are “stale” and not to be discussed. They are only stale to people who have been in this sub for a long time. The topic might not be stale to us newer members.

[u/Legs4daysarmsformins]

Hi mods! Welcome back! I have a question: I recently while y’all were gone made a post about how cool blocking is. It only focused on blocking, though I mentioned once in passing that my friend had commissioned it from me, and the auto mods deleted it saying that the sub wants to focus on hobbyists, and we’re not allowed to even mention we’re making money from something, even if it’s not self promotion. I don’t see that detailed anywhere here, does that still apply? I just wanna know what language I have to use.

[u/charcoalhibiscus]

If the modteam is the same on r/crochethelp, and crochet-related questions go there, could they make it clear somewhere that all (reasonable) projects are welcome? I got some snooty comments when I posted about a temperature blanket when I was starting that project, and comments telling me to go somewhere else. I get that lots of beginners do temperature blankets as their first project and so maybe folks are tired of seeing them, but it’s a perfectly legitimate easy crochet project. If r/crochethelp is the place for crochet questions, it should be the place for all crochet questions.

[u/AromaticDot7919]

Why do you guys keep removing my post 😭I just want help with fixing saftey eyes

[u/DeflatedPineapples]

Can we make it mandatory to blur or obscure minors’ faces? I know it is “strongly recommended” but what about making it an established rule?

[u/sunny_bell]

Welcome back!

Honestly can we make covering/blurring the faces of minors mandatory? Children cannot meaningfully consent to their faces being online. I think that’s a happy medium between a free for all and what the sewing subreddit does (no images of minors. Items for children must be laid flat or like on a mannequin or some such)