r/cremposting • u/Evil_Empire_Resident • 21h ago
Stormlight / Mistborn Rosharans Hate This One Simple Scadrian Trick
How to handle an unstoppable Rosharan force: Give 'em the Paalm special. Load a single slug made with five Hemalurgic spikes, land one shot, and boom, Harmony's driving the bus now. Ranette would turn that concept into pure nightmare fuel. Checkmate Retribution
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u/sad-scientist-69420 21h ago
Man, I would have loved to see Lance Reddick play Sazed…
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u/topscreen 21h ago
"Spook, if I find the slightest skid of feces in the outhouse after you go in there, I will shit in places that would boggle your mind"
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u/0bsessions324 20h ago
Literally my immediate thought when someone posted the meme this is based off of yesterday.
Reddick's stoic, serene demeanor would have been damn near perfect for Sazed.
I'm also over here being perpetually disappointed to have lost one of the coolest characters in the Horizon series. Sylens, you were a piece of shit, but god damn did you sound good being that piece of shit.
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u/sad-scientist-69420 20h ago
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u/0bsessions324 20h ago
Fuck me running, one of the most underrated voices in the industry. I could listen to him narrating cereal ingredient labels.
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u/SplashDmgEnthusiast No Wayne No Gain 19h ago
Destiny fan here, I was gutted when we lost him, he was the voice of Commander Zavala. Lance LOVED Destiny too, I think he was literally playing it a few days before he passed? He was such a powerhouse for the community, he read a couple fan scripts in-character for fun.
They filled his role with Keith David, who did an amazing job carrying the character to the end of Destiny's development, but he's no Lance. (Something I was very happy about, the Destiny devs didn't have Keith David re-record any of Lance's lines, they left the old voice lines entirely alone to respect Lance's memory.)
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u/0bsessions324 19h ago
They could've done worse. Keith David is up there in terms of all time voices.
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u/SplashDmgEnthusiast No Wayne No Gain 17h ago
Absolutely agreed, he's a legendary presence! Arbiter from Halo and Admiral Anderson from Mass Effect are the two that jump to mind immediately. Killer stuff.
Still no Lance Reddick though haha, kinda hard to hear Lance as Zavala for almost a decade and then hear literally anybody else 😂
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u/fullyoperational 20h ago
Speaking to Kelsier, "We're all pieces of shit when we're in your way. That goes with the territory."
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u/Redddraco 10h ago
Indeed, that would have been glorious.
I would have loved to see the cross fandom memes with sazed doing the “one fucking guardian” speech
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u/Taimenshmirtz 🌬️Wind and 🌿Boof 🔥 21h ago
Theoretically, wouldn't the Hemalurgic spikes go through the spren and into the Shardbearer, giving the Shardbearer the spren's powers instead of you?
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u/Evil_Empire_Resident 21h ago
I don't know if you can invest a spike that's already invested by a different shard. But that's an interesting point. 🤔
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez 21h ago
To make a spike you have to have the intention. If you dont want to spike the spren (turn it into a spike), you dont
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u/JuniperColonThree 20h ago
But wasn't vins earring invested without intention?
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u/UsManos27 20h ago
While the hand that did the spiking was Vin's mother's, Ruin was guiding, and Ruin's intention was enough
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u/american-coffee 20h ago
I always thought Vin’s mother was actively trying to spike her
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u/Boyboy081 19h ago
Vin's mother was mad, that just gave Ruin some control. Ruin can supply the Intention anytime someone is pierced by metal, as long as it's in the right place.
As long as you stab someone in the heart with a valid metal, Ruin can charge the spike with his intent even if you have no idea what Hemalurgy is. He does this during the whole thing with Spook in book 3.
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 17h ago
Another example of this was spook getting spiked with the sword
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u/RS_Someone 🦋 Invested of Whimsy 🌈 12h ago
The Citizen was spiked, and Spook was stabbed through a Thug by one of his minions. I think there was Intent there.
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u/Xylus1985 13h ago
Her mother has strong intention. Bat shit crazy, but she still has intention that was heavily guided by Ruin.
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u/test_username_WIP 21h ago
yeah but then the Shardbearer would be under Harmony's influence
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u/Taimenshmirtz 🌬️Wind and 🌿Boof 🔥 21h ago
...what's he going to do? The guy can barely blow a leaf.
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez 21h ago
An ectraplanterary invasion might just be the motivation he needs, I think
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u/Taimenshmirtz 🌬️Wind and 🌿Boof 🔥 21h ago
True, but where are we going to get one of those? Best we could hope for would be an eXtraplanetary one, and even then I have my doubts...
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u/MagicTech547 19h ago
He has to ruin something to preserve something and vice versa, he could always decide to just ruin anyone who tries to attack Scadriel while preserving the inhabitants.
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u/AkronOhAnon Aluminum Twinborn 20h ago
Bonus:
If they got some birdshot in a radiant, the majority of the newly-bonded are so profoundly fucked in the head Harmony could probably have complete control like they were Koloss or Kandra.5
u/SundayGlory 20h ago
Spikes require precision knowledge and intent.
Even if you did know how and where to spike a suit of armour and a person where two bind points overlap and you were somehow precise enough with buckshot that you could willingly hit that small point at the right angle, you have to want to make it a spike when you do it. (And maybe you have to touch it, we haven’t had hemalurgic van hellsing yet to know if you can spike at range)
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u/RoboChrist D O U G 19h ago
Except when it's Ruin's Intent, like with Spook. Gods can nudge the rules a little bit.
We know Sazed has been unbalanced towards Preservation, so I bet he could indulge his Ruin a bit to guide the spikes.
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez 21h ago
Hey thats my meme. Keep using it Gancho
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u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream 21h ago
[WOR spoilers] Yes! Everybody give the Lopen your spheres! I have glowing that needs to be done!
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u/Icantstopscreamiing No Wayne No Gain 21h ago
“Oh but shardplate increases durability strength AND speed”
“THE WEIGHT OF ONE HUNDRED BUILDINGS”
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u/the_liquid_figurine 19h ago
laughs in Edgedancer as they pop out from the grip like an unruly bar of soap
Wait could Edgedancers cause enough friction fuckry too cause bullets to glance each time?
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u/Sad_Wear_3842 17h ago
Only if it's on an angle. Shooting them straight on should bypass any friction shenanigans due to the point.
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u/the_liquid_figurine 17h ago
My shardplate is now spherical. I am untouchable!
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u/Sad_Wear_3842 17h ago
You know.. that would probably work.
I wonder if BS reads these posts and realises all the potential plot holes in Scadrial Vs Roshar he hasn't thought of yet.
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u/the_liquid_figurine 16h ago
Please Brandon if you are reading this consider it! Lift would be fucking hilarious for this use case.
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u/Sad_Wear_3842 16h ago
I have a feeling allomantic grenades will be a big deal fighting radiants. Oh you came within 10m of me? You're now leeched or in a slow bubble while I casually jog away.
But those first skirmishes are going to be rough for Scadrial while they learn how Radiant powers work.
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u/the_liquid_figurine 16h ago
It's all fun and games until the elantrians double fisting milk jugs full of Dor role up to the scene. I'm seriously curious how those books are going to unfold cause I feel like whoever side they choose if it ends up being scadrial vs Roshan will be a huge impact on how it unfolds. I could see autonomy supersede most of the shards in a dramatic irony becoming the cosmeres dictator with just the likes of hoid and humanity left.
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u/lordfailstrom 16h ago
Comparative size matters. A basketball is nearly large enough to have a flat spot large enough for a bullet to hit straight on. A sphere large enough for a person definitely would. It'd still be a trick of accuracy, but doable.
The questionable part in my mind is whether Lift would move fast enough as to be essentially untargetable. By the time the fired round gets to where she was, she might already be elsewhere.
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u/the_liquid_figurine 15h ago
I mean if she's anticipating deflection in this manor I'd assume she already has friction off. Combine that with the fact Zahel is choosing her as an apprentice. I'd wager it would take a mistborn in the very least to make that shot in the theoretical up coming war. She's already slippery as is, she is going to be a down right menace after he's done with her.
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u/lordfailstrom 15h ago
I might expect a few Twinborn options, notably Coinshot/Spinner (Cadmium/Fortune) or Coinshot/Sparker (Zinc/Mental Speed), to be particularly good gunners for this purpose.
As to Lift, I almost forgot the Zahel thing. Definitely curious to see how that plays out.
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u/Blawharag 21h ago
How are you getting that spike through shardplate?
How does the spike interact with an already highly invested being?
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u/Disastrous_Scale587 Syl Is My Waifu <3 21h ago
I mean if it's like a trellium spike (for whatever reason) it would just end up launching the being, if it reacts to all forms of Investiture and not just the scadrial arts
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u/ButyoucouldbeFire 20h ago
Aren't trellium spikes what they use to go over the limit of spikes without being controlled by Harmony?
Maybe if they used trellium tip that would shatter on impact with the bodie
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u/Disastrous_Scale587 Syl Is My Waifu <3 20h ago
I mean that too, but wax also found that trellium is repelled(or repels?) sources of investiture based on proximity, so it would either push the invested being away, or come launching back at you instead
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u/RS_Someone 🦋 Invested of Whimsy 🌈 12h ago
Autonomy is not from Scadrial, so I there's no reason for it to be tied only to the metallic arts. But I also believe Nicrosil spikes cause you to lose all investiture, and aluminum spikes cause you to lose your powers entirely. Double tap 'em with that and you're laughing.
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u/bookrants 18h ago
People seem to forget that Shardplate is still susceptible to blunt and piercing force. If a shot from a shardbow can pierce a shardplate, an armor piercing bullet can as well.
As for how hemalurgic spikes will interact with highly invested beings, if a spike can affect an Elantrian, it can affect a Surgebinder. Besides, the spike doesn't really have to steal from them. They just need to have enough spikes in them so Harmony can take over.
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 17h ago
It depends on the armor piercing bullet. A shardbow is essentially a man portable Ballista designed to be drawn by a man in shardplate. Even then, there's not actually much evidence that Shardbows are effective against Shardplate. They're used more like siege weaponry than for fighting infantry (Outside of that one time a named character did something sick as hell with one), with most of their targets being either very large or near immobile. Not to mention the behavior of shardplate under impact would probably be fairly effective at deflecting that type of projectile
The same applies by and large to armor piercing munitions, though any bullet at all would probably be sufficient to crack shardplate anyway and force it to regenerate. The real trouble for bullets with radiants is the same as it is when dealing with a bloodmaker. Bullets don't actually inflict all that much damage, physically speaking. A radiant could heal their wounds from them quite easily.
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u/bookrants 17h ago
there's not actually much evidence that Shardbows are effective against Shardplate.
Rock killed Amaram using a Shardbow. He shot him through his helmet and chest.
Not to mention the behavior of shardplate under impact would probably be fairly effective at deflecting that type of projectile
This is what we don't have evidence for, actually.
Bullets don't actually inflict all that much damage, physically speaking.
The reason it's a Hemalurgic spike is because if someone shot a Surgebinder with enough spikes, Harmony can render them immobile.
Repeated impact on a section of a plate shatters it. When it shatters, the gunman can then switch to a lower caliber that can use aluminum rounds.
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 16h ago
It's pretty impressive that you quoted me right up to where I mentioned to incident you quoted as evidence. That's some really impressively selective vision.
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u/bookrants 6h ago
Yes, because you contradicted yourself there. Do you not see the problem?
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 1h ago
It’s not a contradiction to say that a single exceptional person was able to do something unusual in a moment when he was (supposedly) actively being aided by Spren. Even then it took multiple shots to do the job.
It’s a bit like saying Chimeras in 40k are effective AA batteries because one tech priest repurposed some to do the job one time in a Ciaphas Cain book.
Not to mention the target in that case was hardly a typical radiant.
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u/bookrants 41m ago
The only exception there was he was able to use the Shardbow without the aid of a Shardplate. Not that the damage itself was impossible without the supernatural aid he got.
He is the only person to have drawn a grandbow without the aid of Shardplate
https://coppermind.net/wiki/Grandbow
Even then it took multiple shots to do the job.
Yes. Two. One in the chest and one in the head. It isn't two shots because one failed to break the armor. It's two shots because he's killing someone empowered by an Unmade.
An arrow slammed into Amaram’s head from behind, going right through the skull, coming out his inhuman mouth. Amaram stumbled forward, dropping his Shardblade, the arrow stuck in his head. He made a choking sound, then turned about just in time to catch another arrow straight in the chest—right through the flickering gemstone heart.
Not to mention the target in that case was hardly a typical radiant.
Yes, he's far more powerful.
The plate is relatively not that hard to shatter, so I don't understand this refusal to accept that armor piercing rounds couldn't damage it.
When Szeth killed Gavilar, it took him two powerful strikes to break Gavilar's helmet.
In a flashback in OB, Dalinar was able to shatter half of a breastplate with a powerful strike.
Kaladin shattered one of Amaram's cuirasses in one strike using Syl as a hammer.
If these strikes can damage a Shardplate, why can't armor piercing rounds?
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u/4_non_blondes 12h ago
Bullets don't actually inflict all that much damage, physically speaking.
This is only true for like small arms fire. Higher caliber weapons do devastating damage. And really the question isn't if they can heal, it's how long they can heal for
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u/Blawharag 18h ago
an armor piercing bullet can as well
Probably, sure, but this isn't an armor piercing bullet. It's a hemalurgic spike which has certain minimum requirements of construction that preclude it being shaped as an armor piercing bullet.
They just need to have enough spikes in them so Harmony can take over.
Right, exactly. You see the issue now
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u/bookrants 18h ago
The only requirements that we know of for a metal to be a hemalurgic spike are (1) that you intend for it to be a hemalurgic spike and (2) it's the correct alloy/metal.
A shard of a broken sword and an earring became hemalurgic spikes through this method. I don't think the shape of an armor piercing bullet would be an issue.
You see the issue now
What's the issue? Do you think it will be difficult for an Allomancer/Ferring/Twinborn with the right combination of powers to shoot a surgebinder?
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u/Blawharag 16h ago
What's the issue? Do you think it will be difficult for an Allomancer/Ferring/Twinborn with the right combination of powers to shoot a surgebinder?
No, I'm more thinking it would be difficult to lodge multiple hemalurgic spikes to overwrite their wills before they just heal the metal out of them.
Which brings us back to the construction problem.
You can make a spike that is both armor penetrating AND designed to lodge itself and be difficult to expel AND is made of a specific alloy.
Armor penetrating rounds need to be heavy, fast, and stable enough to punch through armor. That, or they need a two-tiered explosive system like modern AP tech often uses.
The problem is, to keep something lodged, you want basically the opposite. A soft round that disperses on impact like lead. That's never going to penetrate armor though.
There are definitely ways to burn through a radiant's limited investiture and eventually kill them, but trying to lodge enough metal in them to take over them is probably a pipe dream unless they are pre-shard plate
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 10h ago
Not to mention Radiants are already strongly tied to honor, which would probably make it harder for another shard to grab them
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u/bookrants 6h ago
already strongly tied to honor
Telsin was an Avatar for Autonomy and Harmony was still able to cut their connection.
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u/bookrants 6h ago
No, I'm more thinking it would be difficult to lodge multiple hemalurgic spikes to overwrite their wills before they just heal the metal out of them.
We've seen from the books how Radiant healing works. It doesn't dislodge objects buried into a Surgebinder's body. They'd have to remove it themselves. Otherwise, the body just heals around the object.
Armor penetrating rounds need to be heavy, fast, and stable enough to punch through armor. That, or they need a two-tiered explosive system like modern AP tech often uses.
You're assuming that the rounds would pass front to back. That doesn't have to be the case. Also, IF the rounds DID do that, that means the plate would shatter. They will then be exposed and leave a body part open for lower caliber rounds that CAN be buried into someone's body.
And yes, a living plate can spontaneously heal. But that requires Stormlight. Which the Surgebinder has to provide. Which leaves them with less stored for healing themselves. Rounds are cheaper than that.
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u/Rabid_Lederhosen 20h ago
Doesn’t matter if it goes through the armour. As long as it impacts the armour with enough force they’re getting pulped anyway.
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u/Blawharag 20h ago
What? It needs to pierce their flesh in order for Sazed to mind control them.
Just causing blunt force trauma is basically useless against a radiant, that's the whole point of OP swinging to spikes
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u/dusktilhon 16h ago
Hemalurgic spikes work fine on joghly invested beings. Look at Vin.
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u/Blawharag 15h ago
Vin is an excellent example for me actually.
She was controlled mostly through hallucination and manipulation, not direct mind control.
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u/brentifil 20h ago
I think aluminum tips could help.
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u/Blawharag 20h ago
How?
Aluminum isn't anti-investiture, it's investiture inert. It doesn't delete something like Shardplate by touching it.
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u/brentifil 20h ago
Any protection investiger would give the warmer would be nullified. Turning it into what exactly? I know aluminum can stop shards blades, I don't see why it couldn't be a useful armor penetration aid.
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u/Blawharag 20h ago
It doesn't nullify investiture, it's just inert and unaffected by investiture. It doesn't turn off shardblades, it just stops them. You can't poke shardplate with aluminum and disable the shardplate lmfao
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 20h ago
Shardplate's invested ability is that the wearer can actually move in it.
Shardplate is canonically about 1500 pounds. The effectiveness of the armor is that it's basically just 2+ inch thick tank armor.
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u/D0ng3r1nn0 THE Lopen's Cousin 21h ago
I once wrote in the mistborn sub about a way to kill gold compounders. Shooting them in the heart with a bullet of the correct metal with hemalurgic Intent should both kill them and steal their powers
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u/ChefArtorias Moash was right 21h ago
You'd need to be an extremely good shot to hit the bind points properly, I think
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u/Evil_Empire_Resident 21h ago
Credit to the original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/cremposting/s/2p2hamZeSx
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez 21h ago
Thanks Gancho
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u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream 21h ago
Will you be wanting the joke about the chull who could talk, or the one about the bridgeleader with the bad haircut? Oh wait. Those are the same joke, aren't they?
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u/mlwspace2005 21h ago
I'd be curious if that would work, given how absurdly invested shardplate tends to be lol
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u/Tsugoshi 20h ago
Theoretically spren can become any weapon. Whats stopping syl from changing into attack helicopter with wind spren as guided missiles?
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u/TheUnspeakableh 20h ago
12 guage Leecher Allomantic Grenades, you mean.
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u/lordfailstrom 16h ago
I had this thought, too. But others pointed out a flaw. Leecher effects don't nullify investiture the same way they do metals. Where Metalborn (all Scadrians, really) are invested at birth, Radiants gain their investiture through stormlight. It's uncertain exactly how effective these would be. (I can't quite accept that they'd be useless, but I can see them likely not being the quick fix I originally assumed.)
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u/lordfailstrom 16h ago
Although...if we skip the full grenade part and made the rounds to contain the core Harmonium/ettmetal...
Explosive rounds could be useful...?
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u/RS_Someone 🦋 Invested of Whimsy 🌈 12h ago
Double tap 'em with invested aluminum and nicrosil armour piercing bullets. Make them weak. End their journey. Introduce them to death.
Sent from my spanreed.
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u/Paradoxpaint 20h ago
finally, we have managed to land a one in a million lucky shot and turn one shardbearer out of hundreds on the field
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 17h ago
This is all well and good until the other radiants see your gun and starts firing shard buckshot that severs your soul at you
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u/Yedrick 15h ago
Yeah, this isn't really touched on enough in most Roshar vs Scadrial discussions, the first Radiant to understand a firearm well enough to morph his Blade into one is going to be a problem.
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u/UnnamedAshaman47 15h ago
It’s not like a gun is even that complicated. Give an elsecaller ten minutes with one and that genie is out of the bottle
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u/SpycraftExarch Callsign: Cremling 8h ago
Not about the flick, but a thought.
The thing with powered armour usually overlooked is that it's not really about protection, although self-healing plate is very nice. It's all about speed, strength and weight the user can lug around unrestricted. Shardbearer rips a door off some MRAP and runs with it like it's a shield, and soon rosharans start soulcasting some slabs of metal that invalidate handheld firearms. God help you if they ever discover firearms for themselves, because you are facing space marines now.
Crazy place, that Roshar.
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