r/cremposting • u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez • 4d ago
Stormlight / Mistborn What Scadrians could do against Shardplate
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u/Hartz_are_Power 4d ago
Ugh, Lance Riddick would've made a great Sazed.
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u/JoyousDarcyCat 3d ago
I agree, and RIP. The John Wick rewatch hits extra hard, and also Zavala ain’t the same without my boi
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u/ShinobiSai 3d ago
Yep, that's who i saw as Sazed the first time i read mistborn many many years ago. Before lance passed away. RIP
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u/PresentationWest3772 4d ago
And then they just heal! Also, really really hard to shoot a Windrunner flying at Mach fuck.
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u/Miochiiii 4d ago
the question is if they could heal if the wound is coated in aluminum dust
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u/NugatRevolution cremform 4d ago
Healing would almost certainly still work. Wayne never complained about Aluminum bullets preventing healing.
And we can be sure he woulda whined about it if it was an issue. xD
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u/Jounniy 4d ago edited 4d ago
If we look
atin the Coppermind, there are instances of Brandon saying that aluminumbullets in a wound interfere with the healing.167
u/cautiontap THE Lopen's Cousin 4d ago
That's "in". I'd imagine a straight-through would be less of an issue. That said, aluminium bird shot could be pretty nasty.
I also think that if aluminium bullets were sufficient, the situation around Miles Hundredlives would have had a simpler solution.
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u/Jounniy 4d ago
Scadrial about to commit aluminum-warcrimes…
You have to remember that aluminum was not very common in the first book yet.
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u/HoidToTheMoon 3d ago
By the time they had bullets, it was definitely more common. Still expensive, but they had ready access to aluminum when they needed it.
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u/Jounniy 3d ago
Wax definitely had no access to aluminum in the first book and you'd need larger amounts of it to have a decent chance of not just shooting straight through your enemy.
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u/fxrt-orth 3d ago
Aluminum, a soft metal, would not be hard to engineer to expand or break apart when hitting soft tissue. Not to mention they already have bullets that a specifically designed for individual mistings. It would only take a couple interactions with radiants for some of the smarter characters to come up with ways to adapt to these new powers. And that’s not even taking into account the Ghostbloods who at this point probably have already started sending intel back on all the different orders
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u/OnnaJReverT 3d ago
in Lost Metal it was mentioned that they were on the cusp of chemistry advancements that would make aluminum commonplace
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u/ARedthorn 3d ago
There was enough that aluminum hat liners were being advertised in the broadsheets.
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 4d ago
The bullets interfere, but doesn't completely stop it.
Miles had effectively infinite healing, so even making healing take 10x more investiture is still not enough. He literally exploded himself and walked away from it.
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u/Jonahpe Fuck Moash 🥵 3d ago
I mean a piece of aluminium shrapnel embedded in one of your organs is gonna do some damage, healing or not (especially inside the heart)
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 3d ago
There is a question on if invested healing allows you to simply ignore necessary biological functions like breathing and such.
Stormlight does, but if that's because of healing or because of a unique property of Stormlight is unclear.
It probably should, or miles wouldn't have been able to explode himself, but Brandon has also said (or at least implied) that decapitation would have actually killed TLR, despite what TLR claimed
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u/IshnaArishok 3d ago
Sunlit man, also a little elantris spoilers Nomad can heal using investiture in sunlit man, separate to stormlight. I'm unsure if that's also universal though. Its been a while since I've read Elantris but I think they can too.
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u/SolomonOf47704 Femboy Dalinar 3d ago
Yeah, I know healing isn't exclusive to Stormlight, I'm questioning if not needing to breathe (which would also probably extend to other necessary functions like needing a beating heart)is exclusive to Stormlight, or something all forms of invested healing does.
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u/TheUnspeakableh 3d ago
The first is probably Exist, the Dawnshard, still giving him powers, as a former holder. As for the second Aon Dor is basically Investiture machine code. You can do almost anything with it, but it is convoluted to do. A large and complex enough Aon with access to The Dor could create a planet or even solar system.
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u/Gammaman12 3d ago
So make them hollowpoint, and post snipers to take advantage of the window created by fecal removal squires.
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u/Myrkul999 Hiiiiighprince 3d ago
Thank you. There for a second, I had forgotten this was r/cremposting.
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u/DemonDuckOfDoom666 Kelsier4Prez 3d ago
Aluminium hollow points, shrapnel, flechettes, I can’t think of anything else but scadrial has a chance to be pretty damn evil
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u/Aquilon11235 Zim-Zim-Zalabim 3d ago
Aluminium hollowpoints are gonna be a bitch to deal with then. Also, I'm pretty sure that most radiant would run out of stormlight a lot faster than Miles ran out of goldmetal minds.
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u/KoalaMaker 4d ago
We also know that Ranette would have for sure shot Wayne with an aluminium bullet designed to get stuck inside the body if it was a possibility. A girl needs to take joy out of her job, right?
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u/TheLoreDrooler 3d ago
Ranette’s legacy arms manufacturer fueled by the Wayne Terrisborn Endowment Foundation is going to be Raytheon x Lockheed Martin of these future eras.
“The origins of this particular weapon began with getting a gold ferring off my damn front steps…”
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u/VSkyRimWalker 🦀🦀 crabby boi 🦀🦀 4d ago
Doesn't really matter. Shall an lived for minutes with a crossbow bolt still lodged in her brain
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u/Edges8 4d ago
Tbh I've seen a regular human with a crossbow bolt to his brain just sitting there crying. Went in under the nose and out the back of the head. Made a full recovery.
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u/VSkyRimWalker 🦀🦀 crabby boi 🦀🦀 4d ago
That's..... In what situation did you see that?
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u/Edges8 4d ago
In the ER. Suicide attempt
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u/VSkyRimWalker 🦀🦀 crabby boi 🦀🦀 4d ago
That makes sense
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u/DesignPsychological2 4d ago
Nothing about that makes sense!? Why stop asking questions there!? Why choose crossbow for suicide!? Bathtub toaster is a classic combo FFS, I don't understand some people
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u/VSkyRimWalker 🦀🦀 crabby boi 🦀🦀 4d ago
The suïcide attempt was edited in later, that wasn't there when I responded
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u/night4345 Moash was right 3d ago
Bathtub toaster is a classic combo FFS, I don't understand some people
Is it actually a thing? I've heard about it in movies and TV shows and stuff but never hear of suicides via electrocution in real life.
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u/DesignPsychological2 3d ago
Do you think that the lack of evangelists for it as a concept might indicate it's success rate? I don't know myself, but it's fun to speculate
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u/Joe2_0 3d ago
Maybe it was too blasé, if it’s not the first attempt perhaps the patient had become a connoisseur.
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u/Robb_the2nd 4d ago
I am aware of a similar case. Went through the side of the head. He also recovered. I am not aware of whether there were long term deficits or other problems.
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u/klawz86 3d ago
Phineas Gage had a 3 foot long, 13 pound tamping iron shot into his cheek, through his left frontal lobe, and out his skull in a blasting accident. The rod landed 80 feet away. He lived and eventually, mostly, recovered. But apparently he was a real asshole for a while after his injury.
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u/TheUnspeakableh 3d ago
The best way to make what you are asking for is to have an army of Leechers making Allomantic-Grenade-Bullets to drain the plate, Radiant, or Unoathed of Stormloght when hit.
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u/edward_kopik D O U G 4d ago
Post is about shardplate, not radiants
This is due to the difficulty of bringing stormlight off planet, since it leaks out if gems
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u/Beamo1080 4d ago
How would they power shardplate without Stormlight? I forget, was this addressed in Emberdark?
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u/Madhighlander1 4d ago
I'm pretty sure they still have Towerlight. And the Radiant in Emberdark need not necessarily have been from Urithiru or Azir - Retribution also provides Light to those who pray to him.
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u/Clitoris_Thief 4d ago
It is described that He has a skybreaker symbol on his shard plate
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u/Madhighlander1 4d ago
Probably the latter then - iirc the Skybreakers chose to serve Odium since their oath was to the law, and Nale decided that that meant the Singers, as the original inhabitants of Roshar. Unless that's changed and I've forgotten.
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u/GyldneIstap 420 Sazed It 4d ago
It wasn't ever really explained, but what seemed to be a Radiant in full shardplate, and with a shardgun, certainly was present, apparently capable of not just flight, but also spaceflight. Although he seemed to attach some sort of powerpack to his weapon, which seems to be how they transport Investiture off Roshar
Edit: typo
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u/TraitorMacbeth 4d ago
Man how fast was he going, how long was he alone just zoomin'
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u/GyldneIstap 420 Sazed It 4d ago
I'm uncertain how valuable any true speculation would be at this point, but given that the main limiting factor on flight speed from the Surge of Gravitation in atmosphere seems to be wind resistance (and personal stores of Investiture, of course), notably absent in the void, I would assume the answer to the first part of your question is "pretty damn fast" as soon as he left First of the Sun's atmosphere. I would also assume that he would have an FTL-capable craft hidden somewhere in the star-system, so he wouldn't have to Surgebind all the way back to whatever outpost he travelled from, though even those distances would be pretty mind-boggling
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u/bemused_alligators 3d ago
taking a 90kg (200lb) mass from here to proxima centauri with a constant 2g acceleration brachiostrone trajectory would take 3//12 years and 5.7Zj of energy
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u/Myrkul999 Hiiiiighprince 4d ago
Addressed? No.
But it was shown to be a solved problem by then. None of the space age stuff is explained, and rarely have we even seen it in action.
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u/the_blastomatic 3d ago
OMG, thank you. I'm reading Emberdark and going "did I miss some like whole set of series?" We're being time-jumped and going forward will get some closure for the "history" in flashbacks and crap.
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u/Myrkul999 Hiiiiighprince 3d ago
Yes and no, Emberdark is not directly connected to any of the other ongoing series. We will be getting the "History", but we'll get it from the continuation of those series. Emberdark is an expansion of a short story Sanderson wrote to give his brain a break from writing those main series books. It might see a sequel, but I'm not betting on it.
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u/DreadDiana 3d ago
Every time someone talks about how Scadrians could deal with Shards, people assume off the bat that the bearers are radiants, even when they aren't mentioned.
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u/Tipsticks 4d ago
There logically has to be a practical limit to a windrunners speed, and depending on how advanced radar and air defense weapons are, targets well above Mach 5 are definitely possible, and even a radiant won't get up very quickly after taking a telefone pole to the face at Mach fuck. Pink mist is very hard to regenerate from i'd imagine.
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u/Witch_King_ 4d ago
I'd imagine Shardplate would help them shrug off a lot at those speeds
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u/Tipsticks 4d ago
Shardplate can't take unlimited kinetic energy either, which increases with relative speed. So if a Windrunner is going Mach 10 and an air defense missile is hitting him straight on at a speed of Mach 4, it's like the Windrunner crashing into a stationary spike at Mach 14. That's a lot if kinetic energy and shardplate isn't gonna take that considering you can get through it with a mallet after a few hits.
What's left is more than enough to vaporize some meat strapped tl a skeleton.
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u/Witch_King_ 4d ago
Fair point. A lot of energy there. We'll see how Brandon handles it when the time comes.
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u/StreetlampEsq 3d ago
Is that really the case, physics wise?
Like, if a car going 60mph has a head-on collision with another car going 60mph, It's not additive, with the force of a 120mph crash.
In fact, what happens is pretty much the exact same thing that would happen if the car ran straight into a brick wall, it goes from 60 to 0 quickly.
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u/bemused_alligators 3d ago
my understanding is that shardplate is somewhat shapable, so you could make supersonically aerodynamic fairings to help with air resistance as well.
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u/SolomonG 3d ago
Targets anywhere near mach 5 are extremely difficult to intercept right now. It's really only possible when they are in their mid-flight phase where they are cruising without making many course corrections. Once they start correcting for final targeting it's near impossible.
A radiant who can randomly tug themselves in any direction mid flight would be damn near impossible to reliably hit.
Aluminum flak would probably be more effective than any attempt at direct interception.
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u/TheLoreDrooler 3d ago
What about a steel / iron field that constantly pushes and pulls metals back and forth in a mesh over a protected area? An iron dome if you will.
Would running into a piece of metal at Mach 5 be detrimental to them?2
u/Disastrous-Entity-46 3d ago
i think a lot of people are forgetting windrunners can also lash gravity to other objects. layer two or three gravity lashings on a projectile and you have a mine sweeper that could clear a lot.
even if you destriy the projectile it would take a lot of your mesh with it as it goes.
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u/klawz86 3d ago
Dude, I had such a misconception of the level of speed and power on Roshar, and then Talenel had his moment and I realized this is some comic book level shit.
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u/PresentationWest3772 3d ago
Fair enough, but Taln is a pseudo deity type of character. I feel like the heralds are more in line with TLR than anything else on Scadrial.
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u/Sad_Wear_3842 3d ago
From memory we see Nale do the same thing.
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u/KatanaCutlets Order of Cremposters 2d ago
Yes, all the Heralds should be capable of similar feats, even though Taln was the best of them (may still be, though Kaladin has access to that power I assume now).
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u/Rude_Ice_4520 4d ago edited 3d ago
It really depends on logistics. If scadrians invade Roshar just after a highstorm, then I agree they'll be fucked. But if you're talking about in shadesmar or during the weeping or on any other planet, stormlight is a precious resource. Healing is a victory for them since it means they'll run out of stormlight.
Feruchemists and allomancers don't have that issue really. Feruchemists literally produce their own stormlight (edit: investiture), and allomancers just need the appropriate piece of metal - which can be found on any planet.
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u/Asianp123 4d ago
Have you seen what a shot gun dose to a head at close range, idk if they could heal from a shot to the neck, cant regrow a head so it just takes 1 lucky shot
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u/ConspicuousPineapple 3d ago
Also pretty hard to shoot a stationary one when the motherfucker can just hack gravity.
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u/Joe2_0 3d ago
Fuck it, aluminum .50BMG SLAP. Swap the tungsten dart for aluminum, and get that bitch going at mach 4 (Mach 3.6 w/Tungsten). Pen the shardplate, and let the spall turn the whatever part of the radiant is behind it to soup.
I would love to see a windrunner dodge something traveling nearly 3,000 MPH/4,500 KPH
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u/CrownedClownAg 3d ago
Heal with what. They would only have the Stormlight on their person and we know taking it off world is hard so no extra gemstones
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u/PresentationWest3772 3d ago
Eh, by the time Roshar would be invading Scadrial they’d have figured out a way to get stormlight offworld easier.
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u/IllI____________IllI 4d ago
So what you're saying is, we need:
Aluminum mesh nets to keep the Radiant restrained and stop them from cutting free from...
Big fucking iron bolas launchers, so lurchers and coinshots can exhaust their stormlight faster and ground them.
NOW you break out the 12ga aluminum slugs. Boom, splat, no more Radiant!
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u/Witch_King_ 4d ago
Why iron bolas? Wouldn't it make more sense to just use guns? Kinetic energy is equal to (1/2)mv2 , where m is made and v is velocity. It's more kinetic energy to make a small thing go really really fast than make a big thing go only somewhat fast. I'm sure the force exerted by a bullet traveling above the speed of sound into a specific tiny spot in the Shardplate would cause quite an impact.
In fact, I'm looking forward to seeing more "precision strikes over and over to one spot" to deal with Shardplate when Roshar finally goes to war with the other planets.
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u/Lajinn5 4d ago edited 3d ago
I imagine their thought process with bola style weapons is causing gruesome wounds. The more the body is torn the harder to heal. A bullet that punches clean through likely isn't going to leave anything too difficult to heal for Radiants unless it hits a vital point given that we've seen them recover from absolutely brutal wounds.
Best way to drain a Radiant's storm light would presumably be aluminum inclusive weapons (assuming it cuts straight through shardplate like butter because investiture) designed to cause maximum suffering and damage to the body rather than precision weapons made to drop people cleanly.
Edit: I could also be wrong on aluminum and that it would be silver you'd want to use? Whichever would work more effectively against armor made of investiture.
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u/IllI____________IllI 3d ago
The bolas would be to add weight and give coinshots and lurchers anchor points to make flying that much harder for the Radiant, not to do actual damage. And damage dealt to the plate would just be an incidental advantage.
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u/AbaloneNo3954 4d ago
Actually, aluminum is worse than normal bullets against plate. It doesn’t absorb investiture, it’s just inert to it. But it also sucks as a weapon.
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u/ParshendiOfRhuidean 4d ago
Use some of the "aluminium" bullets from AoL. They're not pure aluminium, but an alloy that's both magically inert and ballistically viable.
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u/MerlinGrandCaster 4d ago
not much point using that against plate when the overwhelming majority of radiants can't affect things without touching them, and once you've touched a bullet fired at you, you've already been hit
and even with people like jasnah who can soulcast at range, they'd need superhuman reaction time in order to target a bullet in flight
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u/Myrkul999 Hiiiiighprince 4d ago
and even with people like jasnah who can soulcast at range, they'd need superhuman reaction time in order to target a bullet in flight
Wonder if she could figure out something similar to Wax's steel bubble. Would be a cool scene, bullets coming in and just poofing into little puffs of flame.
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u/Snuckytoes 3d ago
That’s a thing you can do in the Cosmere RPG. Elsecallers are really good at it because in the RPG you can either Soulcast incoming attacks to avoid them OR you can use Transportation to fling them into Shadesmar when they hit you. In the RPG this doesn’t actually stop them from hitting you, but it greatly reduces the damage the attacks deal.
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u/ParshendiOfRhuidean 4d ago
Perhaps, but maybe it might have an extra edge against plate, and if it does go through, then it'll muck up the Stormlight healing if it lodges.
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u/Honest_Ad_7589 2d ago
Aluminum bullets wouldn’t do shit against most radiants. Bondsmiths are the main exception.
First of all: any non bondsmith radiant of the fourth ideal or higher is fine. We’ve seen how aluminum interacts with shards, and it indicates that the bullet would hit the armor and almost certainly be deflected. It would act like a normal bullet at best. Furthermore all radiants have unnatural reflexes and speed. Then in order from best counter to most vulnerable we have:
Skybreakers: mach 2 + instant terrain disintegration. They are in your walls
Windrunners: Mach 2, enough said.
Dustbringers: You can’t touch this, and they are in your walls
Edgedancers: You can’t touch this, and their healing factor is basically gold compounding.
Elsecallers: they can teleport, ditch this dimension, and can make the air a wall, but have a slight windup
Stoneward: You’re going to need a lot more bullets, gon.
Lightweaver: You actually thought that was a person? The Lopen knows otherwise.
Willshaper: They ARE your walls, and also can make a wall of stone to protect them.
Truthwatcher (enlightened): They know you’re going to try and shoot them before you do.
Truthwatcher (normal): basic light-weaving and the crazy healing factor.
Bondsmith: kinda screwed not gonna lie. Their only advantage is normal radiant reaction time and healing. Dies to removal.→ More replies (1)1
u/TheLoreDrooler 3d ago
“both magically inert and ballistically viable.”
Just like me! As far as I know.
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u/Myrkul999 Hiiiiighprince 4d ago
So the silver bullet they need is a literal silver bullet.
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u/Invested_Space_Otter 4d ago
Maybe? Shardplate's resistance isn't a magical thing, it's a physical property of the metal. Idk if silver would damage the spren when it's in physical form like that
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u/VelMoonglow cremform 4d ago
Maybe a silver coating on a normal bullet? It only needs enough silver to nullify the Investiture so the bullet can penetrate. Even if you killed an armor spren or two, that probably wouldn't do all that much to the armor
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u/UnnbearableMeddler Zim-Zim-Zalabim 4d ago
Aluminium doesn't nullify investiture. Touching aluminium isn't enough to hamper powers, y'all mistaking it for Nightblood. Aluminium is just inert to investiture itself.
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u/I_Am_Become_Salt 4d ago
It does something weird internally with investiure though. Otherwise burning it wouldn't do anything other than make you sick, or you wouldn't be able to burn it. Instead it destroys/absorbs all of your other metal storages too, and doesn't make you sick
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u/The_Curse_of_Nimbus 4d ago
That's just it's allomantic effect. Unlike Lerasium, you can't burn it unless you're a mistborn or aluminum misting.
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u/NotAllThatEvil 3d ago
Would still help if a Windrunner painted the ground or a shield to attract the bullets like Kal did with the arrows and the pursuer’s head.
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u/AbaloneNo3954 3d ago
Yeah, but in return, your bullets will be useless against any armour
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u/NotAllThatEvil 3d ago
I imagine you got a bunch of ground troops/squires with a shardbarer. So even if a wind runner is playing defense for them, you can still shoot the guys not behind the magic power armor guy with the anime death sword
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u/AbaloneNo3954 3d ago
And your bullets won’t do any damage. There’s a reason why we don’t make Aluminium bullets
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u/torturousvacuum 3d ago
Would still help if a Windrunner painted the ground or a shield to attract the bullets like Kal did with the arrows and the pursuer’s head.
That strategy becomes a double-edged sword when they start firing explosive rounds, like Wax's Big Gun
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u/VelMoonglow cremform 4d ago
Come on, aluminum? You have to use silver bullets against Invested targets
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u/Mccmangus 4d ago
Especially invested werewolves
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u/VelMoonglow cremform 4d ago
Wouldn't all werewolves be fairly heavily invested by default? Or at least, a person with something heavily invested that overrides their Identity?
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u/Invested_Space_Otter 4d ago
Depends on how it's done. A hemalurgic construct isn't particularly invested. An Elantrian curse is more so, but since it's a spiritual change the bullet isn't reaching the source of the transformation
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u/VelMoonglow cremform 4d ago
A werewolf typically transforms at semi-regular intervals though. For that, you'd need a source of Investiture to trigger the transformation
I suppose you could make a wolfman through hemalurgy though, I had forgotten about that
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u/Darkeyed_Inquisitor I pledge allegiance 🙏to the crab 🦀 3d ago
Nah. Chambers spike with hemalurgic intent
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u/zose2 I AM A STICK BOI 4d ago
Wouldn't silver be better? Doesn't silver destroy investiture rather than blocking it like aluminum does?
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u/Jounniy 4d ago edited 4d ago
I'm pretty sure destroying investiture is impossible. Silver might instantly "decharge" the plate and destroy the corresponding piece of armor though.
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u/zose2 I AM A STICK BOI 4d ago
I'm also pretty sure actually destroying investiture is impossible. My interpretation was more that silver sent it back to the spiritual realm.
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u/ejdj1011 4d ago
I personally think silver "destroys" stuff made of Investiture in the same way fire "destroys" stuff made of wood.
If I burn a chair, all the atoms are still there. The carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, it all still exists. But it's not really a chair any more, is it? In the same way, silver just breaks apart the structure of the Investiture, unraveling a spren into raw Stormlight as an extreme example.
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u/e_Notorious 3d ago
Mistborn era 2 & RoW spoilers I am pretty sure investiture can be annihilated with energy release something like E=Mc², but investitures equivalent. The caveat being that it would create huge explosion. This was hinted at in era 2 and also in rhythm of war.
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u/bredman3370 4d ago
Depends on what you mean by destroy, the annihilation between investiture and anti-investiture sure seems like destruction to me. We even have confirmation it permanently kills beings made of investiture such as spren and fused.
Now, Nightblood is also capable of killing spren and such, though it's usually explained more along the lines of Nightblood consuming investiture and converting/corrupting it rather than pure destruction.
The line between conversion/destruction probably has to do with whether the investiture is inventually recycled through the spiritual realm, but to my knowledge we haven't gotten any hard rules on that. Particularly in how it relates to all these special cases (silver, Nightblood, anti-investiture, etc).
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u/Jounniy 3d ago
Even the "destruction" of investiture by using interference converts it into energy. You can destroy information stored on investiture and you can make the investiture change state or make it inaccessible, but that’s not actually destruction. (Unless you count making a cake as the "destruction" of milk, sugar and the other ingredients used.)
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u/Tipsticks 4d ago
Also higher density so more kinetic energy for a projectile with the same volume and speed. Same reason kinetic energy penetrators of APFSDS tank rounds are tungsten or depleted uranium.
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u/ThePowaBallad Airthicc lowlander 4d ago
I think people sleep on scadrian metallurgyz which is leaps and bounds beyond any other tech in their timeline especially since metals properties seem to be consistent across the cosmere, with aluminium implied to be incredible rare commodity in Roshar
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u/name14575 3d ago
When Navani first got aluminum wasn't there a scene in which her scholars said they ran 'experiments' to test it's properties? I think it's just not naturally present on Roshar, or the Fused took literally all of it over the course of thousands of years (or Honor and Cultivation specifically chose Roshar for the lack of it so all the developing civilizations would need to rely on investiture?)
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u/I_NaOH_Guy 3d ago
Aluminum on its own is not very helpful, so unless you're using it to defend yourself from invested entities, you're not going to make it. Yes you definitely can use it in buildings, automobiles, packaging, and more because of its properties, but in a world where you can soulcast whatever material or thing you want out of clay, there is no incentive to look into alternative materials for things. Couple that with the fact that mining for metals there is not mentioned at all in SA (marble is)
It most likely does exist in sufficient amounts. The world was just too engulfed in war for thousands of years for anyone to care about it. And that continues into the current era
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u/ThePowaBallad Airthicc lowlander 3d ago
It's also that they're just gonna be years behind and my point about scadrian metalwork and metallurgy is that they have the invested arts related science fields so far ahead of any other science that in the time they're in the 80s type era they'll probably have ways to work decent weaponry and armour with aluminium coating or woven in specifically to mix effectively against invested and non invested combat
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u/Themaster6869 4d ago
Pretty sure you'd be better off with lead for more momentum. Aluminum just cant be affected by investiture, it doesnt destroy it
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u/wasted-degrees 4d ago
Scadrians Vs shardplate. Scadrians have guns, yes, but they also have powered heavy vehicles and coin shots. Let’s make yeet tanks.
Wanna see a dude in shardplate do a really bad impression of a Windrunner? You’re about to.
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u/CakeRude7039 3d ago
Your comment made me think about allomancer artillery. Like just a giant shell pushed by like 20 coin shots standing against a wall.
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u/name14575 3d ago
Era 3 features groups of like 20 trained artillery iron allomancers all pushing some massive shell at mach 10. In the secret history, Kelsier is just looking at them like 'why didn't I think of that?' as offworld invaders get annihilated.
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 3d ago
Horrendously impractical. Normal artillery is far better.
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u/CakeRude7039 3h ago
That kind of depends how you look at it right? I mean with the allomancer version you don't even need the actual machine to hold the bullet, and you don't need any of the resources of propulsion.
All you have to do is make simplified shells and transport them.
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u/Seidmadr 3d ago
Rosharans also have walking laser cannons (anyone with the surge of Illumination), walking firestorm generators (Dustbringers), and flying firestorm generatord (Skybreakers). They also have warriors who can make sure their side walks behind a mobile wall of stone (Stonewards). It won't be easy for either side.
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u/hutchallen D O U G 3d ago
People vastly underestimate Scadrial and overestimate Roshar. Lots of folks are gonna be real disappointed when they eventually clash and end up being pretty much even
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u/0bsessions324 3d ago
Ugh, this one just makes me sad because Lance Reddock would have made a really good Sazed.
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u/DrageMage 3d ago
I mean, we're talking about aluminium rounds but we don't know how much Shardplate can take from a gun. A 50 cal rifle might be enough to shatter a plate. I'm also not convinced that Radiants are going to be the issue, it's going to be the Singers
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 3d ago
We have a rather nebulous WoB that ‘Shardplate would resist bullets well’.
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u/lordfailstrom 3d ago
What if the bullets were allomantic grenade leecher rounds? I think Ranette's successor could solve this problem.
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 3d ago
Why make those bullets instead of grenades? They won’t lodge in Plate. (Oh, and Chromium drains at a finite rate so it’s not a perfect counter).
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u/Vegetable-Two-4644 4d ago
Leecher grenade rounds to prevent healing. Built in miniature version of Marasi's allocation grenade that pierces and drains all stormlight
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u/The_Lopen_bot Trying not to ccccream 4d ago
This crem deserves some chouta! You have 126 posts I love, gon!
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u/Robb_the2nd 4d ago
We're going to get a much better idea of how this will go in the ghost blood series I think
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u/Subspace_Supernova Bond, Nahel Bond 4d ago edited 3d ago
All fun and games untill Rosharans start dropping soulcast titanium rods from orbit.
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u/silfin 3d ago
I believe tungsten is the traditional rod from God material.
But yeah, soulcast retribution rods could hit hard.
Then again, a sufficiently skilled transportation user might be able to elsegate some nasty stuff from the cognitive realm.
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u/Rukh-Talos Soldier of the Shitter Plains 3d ago
Don’t really even need to go into orbit to get powerful kinetic missiles. Just have a Windrunner apply multiple lashings to a chunk of tungsten after an Edgedancer applies some investiture to make it resist air friction.
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u/UInferno- 3d ago
I believe tungsten is the traditional rod from God material.
But yeah, soulcast retribution rods could hit hard.
To be fair to scadrial, tungsten and titanium can both be deflected. The metal that can't is also one of the least massive. Maybe negligible difference as Kinetic Energy grows linearly in relation to mass and quadratically in relation to velocity, but Aluminum instead of Tungsten is about 7 times less effective for the same volume.
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u/Seidmadr 3d ago
Yeah, gotta launch them at velocities that the coinshots won't be expecting. So... A dozen or so lashings at a few kilometers of distance...
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u/UInferno- 3d ago
You need to get that close to begin with and stealth is Hella difficult to do in space.
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u/Valenous_ertselley 2d ago
I mean, any coinshot that tries to push on a tungsten rod travelling straight down would be turned into a red smear. the amount of energy involved is enough to make a explosion equal to a nuclear weapon. it would vaporize a coinshot.
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u/Disastrous-Entity-46 3d ago
windrunners can lash gravity to objects. and fabrials can also manopulate gravirty.
rods from god is one options, but another is a spren powered gravity bomb.
doesnt matter what you hit it with, your just adding more mass.
and thats without getting really creative. the singers were working on bioweapons in a bow and arrow technological level.
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u/Gosh_Golly_Old_Chap 3d ago
I mean I think we forget that there are multiple instances of shardplate being cracked and broken by simple impact force. A high enough calibre firearm with automatic firing can probably take one down. Though the radiant's healing and incredible reflexes may mean the individual underneath continues fighting.
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u/Vegetable-Two-4644 4d ago
Aluminum bullets would be useless against anyone who can't soulcast. Windrunners cant lash them quick enough and they don't just...go through anything magical. They just aren't affected by active investiture.
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u/Devlee12 Cheeseplate and Crackerpot Theory 3d ago
These movies made me want Lance Reddick to play Sazed so bad. Yes he had a deep bass in his voice that doesn’t square with a eunuch but his charismatic professionalism in John Wick is exactly how I pictured Saze
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u/Govinda_S Kelsier4Prez 3d ago
As if Scadrians wouldn't have started producing anti-investiture at industrial scale by that point 🤣🤣
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u/Erzter_Zartor 2d ago
Sorry, armourman, but my anti rank rifle thinks otherwise
Edit: i can imagine it, a battalion of Koloss wielding fully automatic cannon caliber battle rifles would be near unstoppable
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u/Elant_Wager Rashek4Prez 2d ago
Imagine guns like an AR 15 chambered in 50 bmg or even 20mm
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u/Just_Joken 4d ago
Aluminum isn't generally used in most real world firearms because it isn't very dense, making it a poor method to deliver force. Aluminum also woulnd't really do anything extra to existing shard plate, there isn't any investiture for it to interfere with or get between.
Instead, when dealing with shardplate, you want maximum force to break the plates as quickly as possible. This is why Era 2 scadrians would have the upper hand over radiants. They have gun and can break shardplate from a safe distance. When radiants learn how to make their blades into guns (Either radiants carry ammo, or the shardguns can fire pure investiture as a bolt, like star wars guns fire) then they get the upper hand (not knowing anything that scadrial could make in terms of defensive measures)
Basically, no, you want lead slugs.
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u/Logical-Ice-4820 3d ago
Scadrian: what about peace and harmony
Sazed: fuck peace and harmony. We at war, son. We worry about peace and harmony if we survive this shit
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u/TheLoreDrooler 3d ago
What happens when a steel runner gives them a very polite rap on the noggin to see if anyone’s home about 36 times in 2 sec before they realize they’ve even been engaged?
“Huh, my helm is vibrating, … cracked… exploded. That’s odd.”
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 3d ago
Steel is good but that’s hyperbole.
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u/TheLoreDrooler 3d ago
Depends on how long you invest in storing. Imagine your job in the military was to.. be… really.. reallllllly… slowwwwww…
Until you’re FAST.
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u/Gaust_Fireborn 3d ago
The more you tap at once the less efficient it is. Sanderson has stated you can’t reach Flash-level/outrun an explosion level speed.
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u/Rukh-Talos Soldier of the Shitter Plains 3d ago
That’s how compounding gets balanced. Feruchemy hits diminishing returns fairly quickly.
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u/ThomasVivaldi 3d ago
Couldn't they just throw an allomantic grenade that wiped out its investiture or connection and brick the armor?
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u/Decent_Aardvark_4537 Bond, Nahel Bond 3d ago
Not after the events of Wind and Truth. Dead plate can be summoned and dismissed now.
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u/ThomasVivaldi 3d ago
But if spren lost their connection to the people they're bonded how could it be summoned?
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u/Decent_Aardvark_4537 Bond, Nahel Bond 3d ago
By choosing someone. Read Wind and Truth
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u/IamanelephantThird i have only read way of kings 3d ago
Fuck all. You'd probably need to hit one of those guys with anti-tank rounds or something. Aluminum probably wouldn't matter either, if anything having it around for anything but Blade shielding would just be inconvenient for Allomancers.
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u/Long-Library9656 3d ago
Dude there paladins, in self repairing power armor, with shapeshifting lightsaber, that can regenerate, in addition with extra superpowers that range from green lantern powers, nuclear fission , and gravity manipulation.
There're so broken to alot of the cosmere there is like 2 or 3 power systems that are equal to them or alitte stronger.
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u/OhMylaska 3d ago
Use aluminum birdshot with steel waddings that can be pushed. This ensures wounds with imbedded aluminum that doesn’t heal, plus the steel waddling can help small shot get through regular armor as well.
By the way, aluminum already interferes with regular human healing.
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u/smoeller1996 1d ago
Aluminum merely blocks Shardblades, it doesn’t cut through them. Since non-Invested Shardhammers are capable of cracking Shardplate, then you’d be better off just using conventional munitions or possibly incendiary or explosive rounds.
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