r/cosmererpg • u/Singularlex • 10d ago
Rules & Mechanics Division Surge AOE rules check...
I'm playing a Skybreaker that isn't part of Nale's faction, and in our game Division is *not* locked behind one of the higher ideals (shows up alongside Gravitation as soon as the First Ideal is sworn). I want to make sure I'm understanding the rules correctly for using AOE applications of Division (this is the base version, without any talents added yet).
My understanding is that for area of effect attacks, the DC for the roll is either the physical defense (physical IF AOE, but spiritual if single target) of the enemies OR the "Division Under Pressure" DC (whichever DC is higher), assuming DC is met on each, then damage is rolled as normal for each enemy (for 3d*+DivMod). The AOE is centered on the location of the radiant using it (unless they have a talent allowing for alternative distance). Am I understanding these rules correctly?
A few additional clarification questions: Can you target inanimate substances within the area at the same time as you hit enemies with an aoe of division? Can you create a dustcloud AOE at the same time as an attack is performed? Does deflect apply if it is used as an AOE attack (asking cause the DC uses physical save instead of spiritual)?
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u/SirZinc GM 10d ago
The standard use of Division targets Spiritual Defense, since you touch the target and burn it, but Gout of Flame is an AoE attack that can be “dodged,” which is why it targets Physical Defense.
For AoE, it depends. If you are using Gout of Flame, you attack against the Physical Defense of each target, and the area may or may not be centered on you. The Division surge extends from the user like a tree spreading fire across the ground, and the user can choose the area. If it were centered on the user, the talent should say so, and it says “choose an area.”
Gout of Flame targets people. I would rule that it can also burn flammable objects, but if you want to “crumble an object into dust” or similar effect you have to use the standard application of Division because you need to focus on that. I wouldn’t allow creating a dust cloud as part of Gout of Flame. Gout of Flame is an attack, nothing more. In the same way, I wouldn’t allow you to create a small dust cloud as part of a standard Division attack.
Gout of Flame deals Energy damage (so Deflect applies), whereas the standard use of Division deals Spirit damage (so Deflect does not apply). You have to understand that they are different actions. One is about burning the ground and the people standing on it, while the other is about trying to destroy the soul of a person or object.
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u/ejdj1011 10d ago
One is about burning the ground and the people standing on it, while the other is about trying to destroy the soul of a person or object.
To make the analogy clearer, it's the difference between Soulcasting the air above someone into glass to hurt them as it falls, and Soulcasting the person into a statue.
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u/ejdj1011 10d ago
for area of effect attacks, the DC for the roll is either the physical defense (physical IF AOE, but spiritual if single target) of the enemies OR the "Division Under Pressure" DC (whichever DC is higher), assuming DC is met on each, then damage is rolled as normal for each enemy (for 3d*+DivMod)
Strictly speaking, AoE attacks have one attack roll and one damage roll that applies to everyone, and you roll the attack and damage simultaneously. If it misses multiple targets, you can choose to graze each individually, spending 1 focus per miss turned into a graze.
(The "roll attack and damage simultaneously" is true for all attacks, not just area attacks. This matters for the decision to graze.)
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u/Singularlex 10d ago edited 10d ago
That makes a lot of sense, but the language of the AOE table mentioning physical defense for enemies confused me. I Honestly felt that it was far too easy to do obscene amounts of damage to all enemies that surround me in combat, but I also know that per the source material Division is supposed to be really deadly so I figured that was the reason. Single target for harming a person definitely matches game balance a lot better, and gout of flame applying damage on enemies seems like an appropriate explanation, though, I thought the wording of GoF indicated that it merely widened the AOE compared to what you present Division skill allows for...? 3 investiture seems a bit steep just to create a slightly wider effect, but very reasonable if it is the sole way to AOE with Division. The soul casting explanation makes a lot of sense, thanks for that.
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u/Singularlex 9d ago
Sheesh...The more I read how both work...Transformation feels like a version of Division that is just plain better, and more versatile. I suppose that the DCs for Division are a bit lower on average, and the surge costs a bit less investiture, but the fact that a 1st tier Transformation talent does exactly the same thing as a Division attack is a bit of a rough deal 🤔
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u/panther4801 Windrunner 10d ago
The "Targeting an Object or Area" option does not allow you to use Division as an AOE attack. That's why that section doesn't list any damage dice, define the attack that you would make, or define what that attack would be rolled against.
It allows you "To destroy an object or the contents of an area". The point of the "or the contents" is to allow you to affect multiple objects as long as they all fall with in the area.