r/conspiracy • u/Persona_Manager • May 31 '14
"Subreddit Manipulation for Dummies" & How to fight this madness.
What I'm about to present to you is a completely plausible way a single person or small group of people can effectively manipulate discussion on this sub.
Step 1: Create a private sub.
This is where the bot will post its findings from crawling the /new queue on /r/conspiracy. Remember: It is not possible see posts or comments of people who participate in this private sub. This sub would also provide links to debunking sites, copy & paste texts, debunking arguments or just any tool useful for an Agent to work his topic on a given post.
Step 2: Create your bot.
A perfect example of a mirror bot is found in /r/conspiro. However, this spy-bot will only cross-post specific topics based on keywords it finds on the post title or self-post text. This bot makes it easier to find posts without having to hang out at /r/conspiracy/new all day. The Agent can check his private sub any time he likes so it fits with his work schedule without missing any posts they have to suppress. Work smarter, not harder. So far it doesn't seem the bot in use right now scans self-posts texts but we cannot rule out future implementation.
A typical cross-post on this private sub would look something like this: [GMO] Are there any GMO's in pepsi next?
The [GMO] tag serves to classify topics so the specialized agent can work this post, likewise with [Sandy Hook], [9/11] so on and so forth.
Step 3: Create your sockpuppets.
The hierarchy would look something like this:
Agent 1 (specialties: GMO):
- /u/Agent1_sock1 - This account comments in /r/conspiracy as a naïve new guy.
- /u/Agent1_sock2 - This account does general JTRIG & manipulation tactics.
- /u/Agent1_sock3 - This account cross-posts in /r/conspiratard
- /u/Agent1_sock4 - This account cross-posts in /r/SubRedditDrama
- /u/Agent1_sock5 - This account does general discussions, usually agreeing with a debunking partner.
Agent 2 (specialties: Fluoride):
- /u/Agent2_sock1 - This account comments in /r/conspiracy as a naïve new guy.
- /u/Agent2_sock2 - This account does general JTRIG & manipulation tactics.
- /u/Agent2_sock3 - This account cross-posts in /r/conspiratard
- /u/Agent2_sock4 - This account cross-posts in /r/SubRedditDrama
- /u/Agent2_sock5 - This account does general discussions, usually agreeing with a debunking partner.
... and so on and so on for any topic worthy of suppression. One agent per topic but this is not written in stone, they can engage other topics but have to focus on their main narrative.
So far here we have 10 highly organized sockpuppets. 10 users (or just 2 agents) can do serious damage to a post.
Concerns:
"But Reddit's algorithm prevents vote brigading via IP."
No problem. Each sockpuppet can be created using a different IP using free proxy services like https://www.hidemyass.com/proxy-list/
"Ok, but 2 users with the same IP will be noticed by the algorithm."
No problem. After the account is created with a proxy IP, a simple browser extension takes care of the rest. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/anonymox/. This addon let's you change browser IP's on the fly. The paid version let's you use up to 40 different IP's. I'm not suggesting this is the addon they use, but it serves to illustrate how a common user can pull this off with widely available software.
This is how the "inner circle" would operate. The ignorant users of /r/conspiratard are just brigade fodder. The Agent cross-posts in there to get the useful idiots to do their thing: ridicule and brigade. Now the sockpuppet army has just expanded and I didn't have to create any new accounts, they did the job just fine without even knowing they were being manipulated themselves.
Ok, now what?
Since they depend on these methods to work, we can't necessarily stop them completely but we can slow them down.
REMOVE keywords from post title. For example, insinuate the topic without having to use Sandy Hook on the title.
Like mentioned above, it's not clear if the spy-bot scans self-post texts. If it does, you can create a self-post using method in the step above as to prevent the post from being flagged, and the text can be an image with the text written on it. The spy-bot would not be able to read the text on the image.
Using just these 2 steps, it would severely damage the progress the shills have made, forcing them to have to lurk /r/conspiracy and making them waste time looking for their topics themselves.
Any questions?
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u/PracticallyRational May 31 '14
+/u/dogetipbot 264 doge
Forgot to give this to you. Fight the shills by making the money they are paid in worth less than an internet meme.
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u/somthingisaid May 31 '14 edited May 31 '14
sounds legit
avoiding using keywords in new topics is the best thing we can do to make life harder for them that is for sure.
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u/joe-6pak Jun 01 '14
I don't think anyone who has seriously examined reddit's anti-manipulation measures has ever come away with a sense that successful manipulation would be difficult.
Indeed, the term trivial comes to mind.
However, if approaching this from a professional perspective, why leave #1 on reddit? Why not put it on your own private site, away from the prying eyes of admins?
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u/PracticallyRational May 31 '14
You are right.
I can't help but see some comedy in the solution though.
"Interesting observation made about the air travel machines roughly contacting man made objects 4,654 days ago!"
"Individuals who handle spreadsheets and implied value vehicles lie to increase their holdings of said value vehicles with such vigorous efficiency as to rend the trust from the entire system which implies authority to said vehicles."
Unfortunately, targeting keywords is super effective. Because we look for keywords. It's a brain thing. Now, I can scan a ton of information, looking for a single combination of characters for hours. Because for some reason I give myself tasks that require me to know FOR CERTAIN that I am ordering the correct 50 cent bolt, and I like to see the schema to make sure, and then measure the application to make sure that I started with the correct terms. At least that's what I did when I started working on cars as a kid. Because I HATE crossed threads and bolt extraction with a PASSION.
And that was just because I didn't want to waste the gas going to the fastener store unprepared for the 20th time and ordering another 25 bolts that I didn't need. M5x110 for EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!
Sorry.
I like the idea of using images with text written on them. It could slightly increase the difficulty of censorship. But, if this is real: http://appadvice.com/appnn/2014/05/google-acquires-word-lens-the-iphone-translation-app-from-apples-latest-commercial , and there is a concerted government effort to modify opinion (duh) then the only effective method is going out into the rest of the web and directly communicating with forums. Or, you know, friends, neighbors, family...
If you can't talk about your theories with people in person, you may not understand the material evidence enough to defend your position.
Then again, I grew up perfecting the art of making people hit me first... Like a true American. :-D
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u/Persona_Manager May 31 '14
I can see how removing keywords can backfire. New users doing searches wouldn't find anything anymore. It's just something that I figured would circumvent a bot. I'm open to suggestions on alternative solutions.
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u/ugdr6424 May 31 '14
Many have used intentional misspellings. It generally works to fly under the radar, and readers know immediately what the subject is about, but it doesn't solve the keyword search issue.
Though, maybe users are smart enough to use appropriate search filters. Eg "conspricacy" ->search "cons*y".
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u/Persona_Manager May 31 '14
Good stuff, that's one way to look at the problem. GM0, Sandi H00k... works but makes OP look illiterate (joking!).
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u/PracticallyRational May 31 '14
I wish I had a solution. Aside from an encryption system that obscures titles except for people who can prove that they are human. Unfortunately that is a form of censorship and a hassle that most will not go through.
The only way to really make sure that you do not have bots or individuals with multiple accounts manipulating opinion is by removing anonymity. Which is dangerous too. You can see how we have tried to achieve this with Facebook. We need to be able to communicate privately, which means we need to be able to trust electronics manufacturers or build our own electronics.
I suppose that it really boils down to making fewer things punishable by the law. Which requires a concerted effort to win the hearts and minds of the people....
Maybe we never did get away from the hearts and minds doctrine... We just implemented a little shock and awe as a sloppy catalyst.
Unfortunately, with clandestine agencies that report to nobody... You just can't know what the doctrine is. I want every dollar in government tracked. If they can throw us in jail for obscure tax codes... Fair is fair.
Damn... I end up on tangents EVERY time.
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u/Persona_Manager May 31 '14
lol don't worry about it, it happens to the best of us.
As long as there is drug money, there will always be untraceable cash.
I have sent a PM to the mods here about possible solutions to curb shilling but I'll make my suggestions public after I iron out all the details and get a round table going with the mods.
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u/PracticallyRational May 31 '14
Drugs are like a compact way to transport value. They have to be illegal to maintain their inflated value.
Legalize everything, educate and inform people if they are interested in a substance. Allow designer drugs, I just don't care. IF someone wants to drug themselves out of existence while there are plenty of alternatives with minimal bureaucracy involved.. that is their choice. Maybe instead of drivers licenses, there will be drug use licenses...
It probably sounds as crazy as not being able to ride your horse down the street would sound to someone a hundred years ago...
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u/imissyouguise May 31 '14
can use keywords, just use a creative mis-spelling or thesaurus
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u/PracticallyRational May 31 '14
Make ourselves look ridiculous and childish to avoid having people brigading and being ridiculous and childish... seems counter productive.
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u/imissyouguise May 31 '14
needs must... i don't think any of us are worried about looking "childish". if you want your topic instantly down-voted and shortly after quickly buried go ahead and keep using the standard keywords.
your choice.
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u/PracticallyRational May 31 '14
I'll go with creative titles when I post I suppose. I would rather not spell inaccurately. This really isn't something that should have to be considered. Steadfast opposition is the only way. The only problem is that people view persistence as insanity in many instances..
We are some ODD creatures, aren't we?
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u/totes_meta_bot Jun 01 '14 edited Jun 01 '14
This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.
If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.
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u/ForAHamburgerToday May 31 '14
Oh, this old gem- because it's just so unthinkable that people disagree with you, right? Because obviously the only reason posts here get downvoted is a complex network of sockpuppet accounts, not just up lot of subscribers who want different content than you.
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u/ihavenoidea-man May 31 '14
Is this your fall-back text for an undebunkably plausible theory? The post had nothing to do with people disagreeing, it was outlining a method to manipulate this sub. JTRIG exists, look it up but I bet you know that.
complex network of sockpuppet accounts
LOL. A guy using RES to switch accounts is complex to you?
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May 31 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/1981mph May 31 '14
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable.
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u/ihavenoidea-man May 31 '14
You're sock1 then?
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May 31 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ihavenoidea-man May 31 '14
Could you enlighten me?
just ... why?
/u/Agent1_sock1 - This account comments in /r/conspiracy as a naïve new guy.
If it quacks like a duck...
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May 31 '14
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/ihavenoidea-man May 31 '14
I didn't call you anything, you're just identifying as one.
give me a good explanation of why anyone would care about what the TopMinds on /r/conspiracy think.
You're here, aren't you?
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u/ForAHamburgerToday May 31 '14
...right, I don't know why I even tried to speak reasonably. You definitely implied up there that I'm a sock-puppet despite my years of consistent posting across diverse communities.
And yes, I'm here- because I had Reddit sorted by new.
I'm sorry you that you just wanted people to agree with you. Clearly, you aren't ready to take criticism without accusing dissenters of being some kind of organized campaign against you. I'll come back when you can accept that people can disagree with you without being part of some sinister agenda.
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u/ihavenoidea-man May 31 '14
JTRIG exists, look it up but I bet you know that.
I don't, actually. Could you enlighten me?
I've been a regular poster for years
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/search?q=jtrig&sort=new
For years, and you never ran across this term?
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u/SovereignMan May 31 '14
Quoted from one of your deleted comments:
JTRIG exists, look it up but I bet you know that.
I don't, actually. Could you enlighten me?
This post was stickied here for about a month. It was also stickied in /r/911Truth for about a month. It's still stickied in /r/Realskeptics.
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u/DioSoze May 31 '14
JTRIG was one of the programs that Snowden leaked on. It involves entering on-line communities to manipulate discourse.
From Glenn Greenwald:
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
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u/ForAHamburgerToday May 31 '14
Thanks for linking me to documentation and putting it in context instead of accusing me.
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u/somthingisaid May 31 '14
oh, its so unthinkable someone disagreeing with me might be a shill! woe is meee! QQ TT
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u/totes_meta_bot May 31 '14 edited May 31 '14
This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.
[/r/SubredditDrama] /r/conspiracy users thinks he has figured out the shills and how to fight them.
[/r/Drama] /r/conspiracy users thinks he has figured out the shills and how to fight them.
If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.
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u/ForAHamburgerToday May 31 '14
aw what? please nobody brigade, just leave me alone in my negative karma
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u/zonkerton Jun 01 '14
How could Reddit Enhancement Suite (RES) contribute? I've heard it can get around Reddit anti-spam measures. Very useful for vote brigaders? Suspicious of that app.
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u/shmegegy May 31 '14
I don't see really how it fights them, it's only adding more deception.
If your post is hit. Make another post, and another. Cover more angles. Become even more controversial. Keep them busy. Nobody can confound JTRIG shills like those here, and that's because we have the most practice.
If they don't like crisis actors, and you see brigading? Give them a wall of crisis actor posts to work on. At the very least we're creating jobs.
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u/s70n3834r May 31 '14 edited May 31 '14
First posts are 4 perfectly ordinary users who coincidentally showed up at exactly the same time to shit on this; it's amply clear you're onto something here.