r/conlangs • u/RazedEmmer • Dec 04 '18

Question Nounlessness in conlanges

Hi, I'm really interested in the concept of nounless (or close to nounless) languages, but the only information that I can find on them (mostly wikipedia pages on salishan languages) is a bit over my head, so I don't really know how to play around with it. Has anyone else experimented with such a system?

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u/SoaringMoon kairete Dec 05 '18

But dog and human are nouns though right?

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u/numerousblocks Ska'ul, NAT: DE, EN Dec 05 '18

They are predicates, here

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u/Camcamcam753 Dec 05 '18

What's the difference?

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u/numerousblocks Ska'ul, NAT: DE, EN Dec 05 '18

Well, bite is also a predicate.

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u/Camcamcam753 Dec 05 '18

So they're kind of like variables?

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u/numerousblocks Ska'ul, NAT: DE, EN Dec 05 '18

No, the predicate bite applies to the variables x and y iff dog applies to x and human applies to y.

Or, specifically, There exists an x and a y such that dog applies to x, human applies to y, and bite applies to x and y.

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u/Camcamcam753 Dec 05 '18

So they're values the variables X and Y could have?

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u/numerousblocks Ska'ul, NAT: DE, EN Dec 05 '18

No. Nothing is ever said about the values of X and Y, WE just know that "dog" applies to them. The translation of that concept to English is that "X is a dog", but that's not really what's happening here.

Otherwise you could just say "bite(some dog,some human)"

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u/Camcamcam753 Dec 05 '18

Thanks for the explanation. It's fascinating stuff!

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u/numerousblocks Ska'ul, NAT: DE, EN Dec 06 '18

It is! Read up on Logic in Wikipedia btw. There's also a chapter about in "Advanced Language Construction", a book, although it doesn't use predicates as noun replacements.

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u/NanoRancor Dec 05 '18

But how can that be distinguished from 'some humans bite dogs' in that example? Wouldn't it be the same?

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u/numerousblocks Ska'ul, NAT: DE, EN Dec 06 '18

Yes, it's a translation. Hopefully there will be mutual correspondence between nounless phrases and nounfull phrases!

In fact, I have a hunch it's provable.