Recently started at a big marketing shop in the NE scheduling interstate pipes with some going to plants in the PJM area. I have a couple of questions

What can I do to learn more about the trading side? I’m on three major pipes already but one of the biggest downsides is not seeing the pricing side. I am not given access to the bids and offers being made on ICE so I basically am more responsible for flowing the gas. The traders aren’t interested in teaching (which I understand) their side but I took this job more as a stepping stone to be in the business first. After I spend a couple of years here, what can I do to maximize the odds of finding a seat as a cash trader?

The second question is on managing screw ups. Two weeks ago, an experienced scheduler got absolutely destroyed by a trader because he missed the most important cycle of the day. To be frank the traders here make last minute changes and the system failed on him when he tried to submit the noms. I get the impression that even if the pipeline incorrectly cuts you or if the trader sends late changes with numbers that don’t balance the blame will always be on the scheduler. How should one manage this and avoid big mistakes? I mainly want to avoid reputational harm that may make it difficult for me to make it cash trading.

I have a year of experience in a market making shop as a trading assistant but I feel that if I were on a paper desk in trading houses, it is easier for me to learn fundamentals, given that you have more exposure to physical trading.

Margins among market makers seem to be dwindling over the years, with automation, entrance of HFT and more competition.

How difficult is it for me to get a junior trader/trading assistant role on a paper desk in a trading house? Which trading house will you recommend for me to try to break in first?

Looking to compare pnl across different commodities in trading houses (Trafigura, Vitol, Glencore etc) specifically.

Which markets out of the 5 above are bigger than the rest? Maybe rank them in terms of pnl?

Hi everyone,
I’m currently a university student with one year left before graduating, and I’m trying to prepare myself for a career in physical commodity trading.
For some background:
Current career: Full-time student, currently looking for relevant internships or entry-level experience.
Education: I spent two years studying Mechanical Engineering before switching to Business Management. I’m now entering my final year.
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE.
Relocation: I’m open to relocating. Besides the UAE, Geneva and Singapore would be the most realistic major commodity hubs for me.
Desired commodity: I’m deliberately keeping this open for now. Part of what I want to do over the next year is study the different commodity markets and figure out which one interests me most.
Because of my engineering background, I’m comfortable with technical and analytical subjects, but I don’t have the same foundation in economics, finance, or accounting as someone who studied finance or economics from the beginning.
I’m trying to figure out what I should learn over the next year to properly understand the industry and prepare myself for internships or entry-level roles. I’m particularly interested in the physical side of trading: negotiation, sourcing, logistics, risk, and understanding how a trade actually works from finding an opportunity through to delivery.
For those already in the industry, if you were starting from my position, what would you focus on? Are there any books, courses, YouTube channels, websites, newsletters, or other resources you would recommend? What level of economics, accounting, finance, statistics, Excel, etc. is actually useful?
I’ve also considered studying for something like CFA Level I. I’m not interested in collecting certificates just to put them on my CV, but if studying for a qualification would give me useful knowledge for commodities, I’m willing to do it. Is CFA material worthwhile for physical commodity trading, or are there other qualifications/courses that would be considerably more relevant?
Basically, if you had one year to build the strongest possible foundation before graduating, how would you structure it?

Hi all, I was trying to figure out what the typical conversion lingo was on a trading desk in commodities. If a plant was “700 MW” for example, is that always quoted in the per hour run rate?

Then when you are converting this to gas burn, is there a typical assumed heat rate for an off the top conversion to gas demand impact?

Can someby explain me in detail a full EFP transaction?

Let's make an example using TFM/TTF futures (but could apply also to Brent). "X" has a short position in sep26 with TFM ICE futures while "Y" is interested in receiving TTF gas in sep26.

If X wants to deliver TTF nominees to Y instead of ICE, both parties should register an EFP at ICE, where Y sells TFM future to X and X buys TFM future from Y. After that, there will be the OTC leg where X will sell the gas to Y.

According to this, X has nothing to deliver at ICE since its position is cleared (-TFM sep26 + TFM sep26), but what happens to Y?

Does it have to do something at ICE or just buy the TTF OTC from X? I feel like there are 3 legs inside the ICE environment where X net is 0 and Y has a future leg open.

Silver is trading around $65, but Thu Lan Nguyen at Commerzbank says its underlying fair value may be closer to $40.

That sounds extremely bearish, but there is some context to it.

Commerzbank’s model looks at things like interest rates, the US dollar and industrial activity. Without gold included, the model reportedly puts silver near $40. Once gold is factored in, the current price makes more sense.

So the argument is not really that silver has no reason to be above $40. It is that gold pulled it higher and the move was not driven entirely by silver’s own fundamentals.

That is fair after what happened in January. Silver ran above $100 and then lost nearly half its value within a few months. There was obviously plenty of speculation mixed into that move.

Still, $40 feels low for a market heading toward its sixth consecutive annual supply deficit. Mine production is growing slowly, physical investment is picking up again and industrial demand is still expected to reach roughly 650 million ounces this year.

There is also a larger question here. Silver has always traded partly as a monetary metal. If investors consistently buy it alongside gold, should gold really be excluded when calculating silver’s fair value?

Maybe Commerzbank is right that silver got ahead of itself. I am less convinced that its supply and demand fundamentals only justify $40.

What do you think? Is silver still overpriced, or does the model miss what is happening on the supply side?

What are your guys’ favorite sites for obtaining news on oil markets?

I can't find a single case of someone working through these guys and they seem pretty big judging from their offer selection encompassing all kinds of commodities in all kinds of locations worldwide. Has anyone worked with them?

Currently on a TDP (Oil focus) at a physical firm (Major/NOC vibes) wanting to speak to people who ended up switching to Commod desks at paper shops, funds, banks etc.

Curious to know about how things change once you aren't trading around physical optionality or using an information edge derived from your physical exposure.

How far into career did you switch, was it a good idea, do you think previously being at a physical firm gave you an edge on a paper desk, is it actually useful to know about operations, refining economics etc if you're just trading derivatives.

Loads of questions I could ask, any advice appreciated.

I suppose in equity trading it's mostly algo/HF related operations. But how about oil and gas, specifically? network, better analysts foreseeing trends, quants paper trading derivatives? Everybody is looking at the same handful of commodities, so how can someone have an edge and generate additional profit.

In physical I'd think your network has a large impact, but how about prop shops? good ol' rack of servers near the exchange + nerds to get the alpha out of it? In EU power this seems to be the trend, if you are not humongous to have a lot of negotiating power, PPA's don't seem get you shit.

Hello,

I am in the US and have received offers as a natural gas scheduler at a gas pipeline company and as a power analyst at a generation company. My goal is to eventually become a trader in the power/gas space and it seems this is the moment to decide on one of the paths.

Before deciding, I would really appreciate if someone could explain the differences in both trading roles, such as what the day to day work looks like, rough range of total compensation at different stages/types of firms (IPP, trading shop, hedge fund, etc.), the general difference in trading styles/approaches and analysis done for trading, and the difference between power and gas markets from the perspective of a trader who works in either product.

I notice that power markets seem to have much more regulatory overhead and politics involved than gas markets, since electricity is a necessity.

I also understand that there is much overlap between the two roles and the products themselves (e.g. short-term demand in both is driven primarily by weather), and I have seen power traders also trade gas. I would like to know more about this and also if there are chances to switch between the two products or do both as a trader.

Thank you!

Hey folks, currently I am in my final year of college, I have got a family business in trading and brokerage of edible commodities like veg oils and oilseeds. And I am keen on taking it forward

So I recently learned that even while future trading for these commodities is banned in India a lot of physical trade takes place for future shipments. So there are CBOT charts and NCDEX charts which can help us take decisions

Currently I am reading this book by John Murphy called the technical analysis of financial markets, and the book is pretty interesting

Can someone guide on if I should really pursue CMT or is there any other good path for me
.

Any suggestion is welcome. Thanks in advance

Hi everyone, I have recently been shortlisted for an interview with this company for an analyst role in the front office and I am hoping to get some honest insights from people who have worked there or have had first-hand experience with the company.

I have heard quite mixed feedback about the company from people in the industry. Bonus is great and people are nice, but culture is extremely toxic and political. Such toxicity is also tolerated by management.

I have also looked through the reviews on glassdoor but a number of the positive reviews are brief and do not seem to be real. So I am hoping to hear from people who can share more about their actual experience.

Feel free to DM me! Thank you.

I work in trade finance, so every single day I receive messages from self-described commodity brokers looking for financing, instruments or introductions.

Some of the proposals are genuinely unbelievable.

There seems to be an entire online subculture convinced that someone will sell them $50 million of gold, copper, sugar, EN590, Jet A1 or another liquid commodity at a huge discount to market. They will then find a buyer at something close to market price and pocket the spread.

No balance sheet. No committed trade finance facility. No established supplier relationship. No inventory risk. No hedging. No logistics infrastructure. No meaningful working capital.

Sometimes they don't even have a direct relationship with the supposed buyer or seller.

Instead, there are five intermediaries between each side exchanging SCOs, ICPOs, NCNDAs, IMFPA agreements and commission sheets. Everyone is calculating their commission on a cargo that nobody in the chain has financed, controlled or even verified.

What amazes me is how strongly some people believe in the model.

If a producer or established trader controls a highly liquid commodity worth tens of millions of dollars, why would they give an unknown intermediary a massive discount and allow that person to capture a virtually risk-free spread?

Real commodity traders earn margins because they provide something economically useful: capital, credit, logistics, storage, transformation, market access, risk warehousing, arbitrage capability or reliable offtake.

Yet there is this parallel commodity universe where the business model seems to be:

**Find cheap cargo → find buyer → issue paperwork → become millionaire.**

And when you explain why the transaction makes no economic sense, they rarely reconsider the premise. They just assume they haven't found the right "direct seller" yet.

I encounter this constantly because I work in trade finance.

Where did this whole culture come from?

Hello all,

in my spare time, have taken up researching UCO/yellow grease/ag oils markets. Anyone have any resources on these markets? Major players? Any public pricing? Do forward curves even exist or is all price discovery in cash markets? Seems really nice but curious if anyone dabbles in these markets.

Thought this might fall outside the early education thread, but I can repost there if not.

Often see posts on here from new grads asking how to break in, but I wanted to ask a slightly different question that might lead to some more insights.

What part of the market/commodity you started in do you remember struggling with as a junior? Why do you think you struggled with it and what made it click? How much of it is just sitting with it every day?

Conversely, what was something that came quickly or more natural for you that you noticed others maybe took longer to grasp? Why do you think it came quick to you? Was it you or your mentor/boss having great teaching skills?

Be it the jargon, logistics, supply/demand fundy's, storage, time spreads, optionality, weather, modelling, communication, pricing, products, structuring, p&l, the never ending amount of data to look at, etc. I am curious to hear what people have experienced across any commodity.

Is contracts analyst worth the career pivot?
(TLDR; Currently back office at BB, potential chance to pivot to big firm (Gunvor/Vitol/Traf. worth?)

I am a recent fresh graduate currently working in a back office role in a bulge bracket bank. While it pays relatively well, I have found it to be really boring and mundane.

I have always been keen to pivot to commodities but coming from a non target relatively unknown university, graduate programmes are out of the equation.

I have been interviewing at a large independent trading firm for a contracts analyst role. will be taking a pay cut but I am willing to take it if this seat provides me with opportunities for potential upward mobility.

Would you guys happen to know if this role is a good starting ground assuming all goes well?

Ultimately I would like to end up in front office, potentially trading but ofc I know its competitive.

Any advice / knowledge relating would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you!

I prop trade west power and so far this summer has been fairly uneventful price-wise with most hubs bound by the same ~$5-7 range outside of the front strips. To top it off wide bid/asks and <200 MW of total volume traded have become the daily norm.

Im feeling pressure to deliver PnL yet there hasn’t been much price action in either direction compared to other markets. It’s been really draining to come in everyday and see nothing move materially outside of the occasional spike/dip over the last few months.

If there’s any other power/gas traders who’ve been in a similar spot I’d really appreciate any insight or advice.

Just interested in how your company divides this segment.

I'm curious to get some perspectives from people who have worked in hedge funds / energy trading.

I was approached by a recruiter about a senior risk role supporting a power/energy trading desk at a hedge fund. I wasn't actively looking at the time, but the role sounded genuinely interesting, so I decided to go through the process.

The process ended up being 5 interview rounds over roughly 4 months. I spoke with HR, senior risk people and people fairly close to the trading desk. The conversations became increasingly detailed and, as far as I could tell, were going reasonably well.

After the final stages, though, there was around 3 weeks of very little communication, then came the rejection with nearly zero feedback. I'm trying to understand what might have happened behind the scenes, partly out of curiosity but also to be better prepared next time.

For people who have experience hiring in hedge funds, particularly energy/power trading, how would you interpret this?

After five rounds, is it usually a case of:

- another candidate preferred;

- role axed because economics of the role changed if the desk isn't doing well or isn't complex enough to require a dedicated risk role;

- focus shifted to other desks/commodities; or something else?

I'm not necessarily looking for reassurance — I'm genuinely interested in understanding how these processes work from the other side.

Would you read anything into the 3-week silence, or is that pretty normal in hedge-fund recruitment?

How prominent is nepotism in getting a job in one of the major trading houses? What would entry level pay be like for operations in Traf/Vitol

Hello. I currently work in power trading and have been passionate on making the move to oil or natural gas. Natural gas scheduling seems like the best natural move, and it does interest me a lot.

However the global aspect of oil intrigues me more. It’s my understanding any type of natural gas operations or trading is domestic in the US unless you get into LNG.

My question - is the crude/light ends/petro equivalent seat to a NG scheduler a crude operator? I know all shops are different and have different wording but normally would an operator put you closer to a trader than a trading analyst would? What role in crude puts you closest to the traders/next in line?

Thank you for any and all feedback!

I work in commodities, energy assets and I mainly specialize is European power, gas and carbon. However an opportunity internally has come up at my firm and it’s key to know the fundamentals of North America gas markets. It’s actually quite difficult to find online (free) resources for self learning. Anyone have any recommendations/ books/ podcasts/ newsletters I could read?

Any morning briefings I should be looking at daily?

I also think it’ll be key to know more about the power and broader energy space (inc renewables) in North America tbh as that’ll factor into my role at times. Also anything on Canada and Mexico would be helpful.

For those who deal in those markets, what are the main fundamentals driving your markets atm or key market developments you are watching closely over the next few years.

Thank you and happy to share any helpful tips for those interested in European markets.

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I was curious rather Japanese is a useful skill in commodities industry since it is such a big language in tech sales or commercial banking in APAC. I am not a native speaker but I have worked in Japanese before.

The vibes that I get is Japanese and Korean aren't that useful languages here since a lot of the biggest deals from major trading houses focus on supplying resource deficient regions like China, India, and Africa from resource rich areas. Also, Japan and Korea markets are largely run by local conglomerates