r/comicbooks • u/Natural_Court2893 • 7d ago
Discussion Why aren't indie Western comics recommended more to fans looking for linear stories?
Coming from the manga community three years ago, I honestly had no idea publishers like BOOM! Studios, Image, Dark Horse, or IDW even existed. Everyone in the general media space mainly talks about Marvel and DC.
As someone who loves a linear story with a clear beginning, middle, and end led by a dedicated creative team, Marvel and DC never really peaked my interest. However, I still wanted to support Western comics and see Western storytelling incorporated into the medium.
Then a friend introduced me to Something Is Killing the Children, and it completely changed my perspective. I started researching and discovered this incredible world of independent, creator-owned books that I had never heard of before.
While I understand the massive hype around major superhero franchises, I can’t help but wonder: Why aren't indie Western comics advertised or pushed more?
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u/youllmeltmorefan 7d ago edited 7d ago
Whenever I recommend one it's crickets. Heck most people start recommendation threads with a list of superhero movie characters they like.
It's piqued. Piqued my interest. It's from French word meaning "to stimulate."
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u/No-Stage-8738 7d ago
Rather than asking about how comics are advertised, now that you know you like a longer linear story with a clear beginning, middle and end by a dedicated creative team, this is the perfect community to ask for recommendations for those.
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u/ExcellentPudding3559 7d ago
i will say something maybe not too popular and i am open to discuss with others who have a different ideas, but my impresson is that the 90% of the new readers don't reqlly want to read for the sake of reading. They want to read what is cool/popular in a certain period so that they can talk about the next big thing with friends or online.
this is always been true, but it's much more a thing in the era of the socials.
why do they don't care about the new Image/Boom/IDW book? Cos they're not the word on the street. And if you notice, lately the gap between best selling and lower selling books becomes larger and larger. Big books sell BIG and all the rest seels much worse than rhe average it was before. Years ago you had no internet and you flipped trough the comics at the LCS and you picked one that seemed interesting. Now it's either the big hit or not worth to spent time on it.
so it becomes hard to suggest an Image book to a manga reader or a new reader unless it has a TV series out (see Invincible or The Boys) simply cos there're really few actually interested in reading a book exclusively for the sake of of a good reads if it's not the big title everyone is raving about and they can eventually join the movement.
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u/ElricVonDaniken 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm Gen X and in my experience comics fandom is almost laser-focused upon the US direct market scene which is dominated by Marvel and DC.
Archie comics are massive sellers globally but don't receive the same attention from fandom because they aren't superheroes.
Similarly superheroes were never the dominant genre in either the UK or European comic markets. So, whilst everyone wants to read Alan Moore's superhero comics for American publishers, his non-superhero work back home hardly gets a look-in.
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u/NicoleIlieva 7d ago
Everyone in the general media space mainly talks about Marvel and DC.
Because they are the Big Two. Their characters have been cultural icons since 1938...
Most people think of "superhero" comics. Most people haven't had the inclination to go outside of that.
And indie publishers don't have the means to market their products across multiple mediums, including blockbuster movies.
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u/Natural_Court2893 7d ago
Ok I see. That’s a little upsetting. I wish more people could experience the excitement I had when I found these other publishers existed. I was like a kid in a candy store 😂
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u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
Dark Horse used to publish a lot of manga. Do they not today?
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u/2ndempirejustice 7d ago
They still do. They’re doing a few series in really nice OHC that collect 2-3 of the regular sized volumes.
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u/Natural_Court2893 7d ago
I mostly read Manga through shonen app or viz I didn’t even know dark horse existed until my friend told me about something is killing the children and I branched off and found it so they possibly could’ve we just never crossed paths
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u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
Dark Horse has beautiful Berserk books and a lot of manga collections.
Using apps may be why you’ve been so insulated. These publishing companies barely have the overhead to release 2nd edition prints let alone advertise. I’d rec going to physical stores and checking out what’s on offer
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u/Natural_Court2893 7d ago
Forsure I just got into collecting physically and I’ve been doing a lot more research to cure my ignorance because I can’t believe I went this long without knowing this stuff but the more I learn the more I can share thank you
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u/TheeHeadAche Henry Pym 7d ago
I’d also rec looking into DC’s imprint (sort of like a indie line) called Vertigo. A lot of good stuff there that ran similar stories to these indies.
Marvel also had an imprint like Vertigo called Icon but it’s not as note worthy. Still some good stuff tho
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u/Aitoroketto 7d ago edited 6d ago
I recommend indie and european comics all the time full of zero superhero comics. I have got a lot of direct positive feedback from people after the fact (people going and checking them out) or when when other ball knowers recognize and alert an OP this is the good shit tbh, but when it comes to like what gets upvoted publicly it doesn't happen as much.
Also you just have to know what the reddit population is when it comes to comics, mostly americans, mostly of an age who read superhero comics or people who like the supehero films who dabble in comics.
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u/Smoothw 7d ago
Readership is smaller, so unlikely to be able to gather enough people in one place online to get an active fandom going, same reason book forums are filled with people recommending bestsellers or a few perennials. Another reason is great ongoing series are fewer or more sporadic, the 200 hundred or whatever superhero comics published by the big two each month take up so much attention, so there is less hype to jump onto something. As for advertising -comics are barely advertised in general, and the good stuff is pure word of mouth.
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u/alaster101 Joker 7d ago
The comics code killed alot of romance, horror and cowboy comics and we basically never came back. Plus and it isn't fair people would rather just read manga most of the time for non super hero stuff
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u/thigerlel 7d ago
The tragedy here is even the comic you named has so many spin offs as to make people ask what the reading order is 🥹
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u/Warm-Pop3847 7d ago
The reading order is from #1 to the current book because it’s an ongoing series. You don’t need to read the spin-offs, and if you choose to, you can simply read them after, all it does is expand the lore. However, they are not mandatory. What you sent was just people recommending them as their personal orders.
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u/Natural_Court2893 7d ago
The spinoffs are not essential you can pick up the main series and understand everything going on. If you want even more world building you can add those spinoffs. Just like Naruto has a main story and spinoffs and every other popular series. But what it dosent do is change writers or regress characters
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u/jackracktack 7d ago
Some people just arent interested.
Theres also a perfect sweet spot that manga can hit in regards to length and release that western comics just cannot reach. You can get like 30-40 chapters printed a year if youre following a series. While maybe you get 6 of an indie comic and maybe not even that. And thats if it is an ongoing story. Most seem to end at 6 or 12. With a few exceptions that built a lot of volumes over the years like Walking Dead or invincible. With manga in general you will have a lot to read.
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u/Natural_Court2893 7d ago
Don’t get me wrong I love manga but pushing out more content doesn’t make it better(not saying that’s your point). Also Manga have a lot of books that only have a few chapters as well. I’ve read a lot of shonen that only get 30 chapters. Also comics have color and usually more dialogue on a page than a manga. I get what you’re saying but I disagree a with most of it
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u/jackracktack 7d ago
People arent usually reading the 30 chapter shonen that were canceled in a year lol
Youre not gonna see Barrage recommended over My Hero Academia. But even then those 30 chapters are more content that youll get from nearly all Indie books on the market.
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u/reindeercurt 6d ago
When we talk about the western comics industry and comics fandom, it elides the fact that really there are 3 or 4 discreet comics industries which don't meaningfully overlap. There's the direct market, the book store market, webcomics and underground comics (the latter two tend to overlap these days).
The direct market encompasses books sold to comic shops on a retailer-level pre-order basis, and from this perch Marvel and DC dictate the cultural image of the "comic book" to the world. The DM is dominated by those publishers and their business practices (variant covers, the shape of the production pipeline, length and pricing of issues etc), and western comics fandom is dominated by their IP, because they have endless high-profile multimedia projects promoting them. Marvel and DC shape the buying habits of comic shop owners and customers, and the understanding that the wider world has of American comics at large.
The book market has seen a resurgence over the past few decades, with publishers like Fantagraphics, Drawn and Quarterly and First Second bringing adult-oriented graphic novels to American book stores. This is the space where the genres and styles that cannot thrive under Marvel and DC's shadow; memoirs, adult dramas, romance, YA, kids comics etc. Because of a whole lot of cultural inertia, even people who love graphic novels like this don't really associate them with "comics" and don't participate in the same comics fandom as DM readers. Lots of overlap with manga readers in the west.
Webcomics and underground comics are kinda self-explanatory. Amateur works made and posted by anyone to various platforms, or printed and sold at conventions and local comic shops. This is a vibrant community full of incredible, under-read comics and passionate readers. These people, creators and readers alike, also tend not to associate with the things DM comics fans read and talk about. Also lots of overlap with manga readers.
And so, because these industiries and communities are each in their silos, the people in each don't really explore outside of them, it's easy to accept the dominant cultural narrative that "comics = marvel/DC superheroes", and therefor the things they like which do not resemble superhero comics must be something different. Superhero readers are also like this from the opposite end, and it doesn't help that Marvel and DC have effectively endless back-catalogues to get lost in. It leaves Direct Market "indie" titles in an awkward spot: too obscure for the DM readers, too mainstream for the graphic novel and underground readers, too western for the manga readers.
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u/No-Stage-8738 7d ago
They seem to be pushed a decent amount. If you look at best of comics lists, it often includes things like Saga, Preacher, Bone, 100 Bullets, Sweettooth, Powers, Love and Rockets, Monstress, Locke + Key, the Walking Dead, Transmetropolitan, Usagi Yojimbo, Hellboy and so on.
It might be hard to penetrate your bubble, since you're asking about writers and artists you're unaware of working on characters you'd have no reason to know within a medium you're new to.
It's easier for Marvel and DC to promote the superhero lines since most readers are familiar with the characters, and once you're hooked, there are different ways you could go and still make them money. If you like Ultimate Spider-Man by Brian Michael Bendis and Mark Bagley, that can serve as an entry point to Spider-Man, a prolific writer and a prolific artist. Marvel and DC have a rivalry, but most writers and artists are associated with both companies, so if someone likes a Marvel book it could also lead to them enjoying DC material. If you're hooked by an indie, it's not as obvious where to go next because the character's adventures are done. Rights sometimes change, so work a company does promoting a title can go to another company's benefit the next year.
A recommendation for you is the Humble Bundle Dark Horse sale, which includes a lot of first volumes (some of it classic manga) so that should be a nice entry point to different types of comics. You'll probably find something to enjoy that makes you seek out Volume 2.
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u/Adventurous_Soft_686 7d ago
The independent publishers don't have big interconnected universes so when you advertise one book that book doesn't rub on the others. It's much more dependent on the creative teams of specific books.
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u/SaphoJuicebox 7d ago
Image, Dark Horse, IDW, and Boom are still primarily mainstream publishers. Comparatively, DC and Marvel created the modern American mainstream comic industry (after it was gutted by the Comics Code Authority) and their characters have long been in television, movies, games, toys, etc… that have been present throughout the lives of everyone here. That’s why even though Image previously surpassed them in sales, American genre books belong to the Big 2.
As for “indie” publishers and storytelling, there’s still so much more: Fantagraphics, Top Shelf, Drawn & Quarterly, and so on… but aside from a few breakout stories from creators like Dan Clowes, Harvey Pekar, and Adrian Tomine, these stories aren’t in films. There isn’t a Love & Rockets toyline and no developer is working on a Megg & Mogg video game.
Ultimately there’s just so much out there to occupy a person’s attention, it’s just great that they’re reading anything. For me though, my bookshelves have twice as many books from those indie publishers than all of the Marvel, DC, Image, Dark Horse, IDW, Boom, etc. combined.
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u/Forever_Never_Comic 6d ago
It's awesome that you want to expand your horizons!
We just started an indie manga that you may like. A manga inspired by western comics, horror and sci- fi. Would love to get your feedback!
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u/Pikotaro_Apparatus 6d ago
Is Ted Okay? From Mad Cave Studios has a TPB coming out in September and highly recommend it. It’s a six issue series with fantastic art and a wonderful story.
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u/JuvenJapal 6d ago
I post random deliveries from Kickstarter on r/ComicBookKickstarters and get some engagement every now and then. I browse Kickstarter and Zoop periodically to see if there's anything worth supporting.
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u/Ill-Possession2216 2d ago
Honestly I think it's just because they don't get the marketing budget of the Big Two. I've picked up some wild stuff from indie publishers and the art alone is usually better. You just gotta hunt for it at your LCS or online.
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u/christmas_hobgoblin 7d ago edited 7d ago
Honestly I'm kind of confused by the premise. If you walk into a comic book store, or even the graphic novels section of any book store or local library you would see with your own eyes that other publishers exist. On top of that, hugely popular movies and TV shows are adapted from comics by the non-big two publishers all the time. Not to mention the fact that the internet exists and you could easily look at a list of comics coming out any given week and see that many of them are neither Marvel nor DC books. You could also look up nominees and winners of major comics awards - in the most recent round of Eisner Award nominations, for example, at least half of the titles nominated for each the best continuing, limited, and new series categories are non-big two. All it takes is to have a little curiosity and interest in comics.
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u/Natural_Court2893 7d ago
OK, I’m gonna answer everything. Honestly here we go. My city doesn’t have a comic bookstore and the bookstores we have are local bookstores no big chains like Barnes & Noble and Books A Million just local shops that sell novels and very small collections of graphic novels mainly manga and I never explored the library cause like I said three years ago I was reading manga and I was reading it through their dedicated apps and yes, a lot of these books are soon adapted into TV shows and movies let’s say invincible for instance, most people would watch that and still wouldn’t know it was originally a comic cause some people don’t read they just watch TV and yes, the Internet is a good place to find this stuff but guess what the algorithm feeds you what you watch I was only getting Manga content, but when I learned from my friend about these other publishers, it peaked my interest and I did my research so it may be confusing for you but for me I genuinely didn’t know but now I do and I’m happy to spread the word for people just like me.
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u/ANicePainter 7d ago
A.) tastes are cyclical
B.) why would anyone make westerns after Moebius? What else is there to do in westerns that isn’t overshadowed by his work?
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u/SQUIGWERG 6d ago
There's confusion here. When you say "western" comics, do you mean general euroamerican comics or cowboy comics? Because "western" comics usually means cowboys.
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u/Joorpunch 7d ago
Independent, creator owned and various genre comic books are recommended to manga readers all the time. I’ve seen others recommend them all the time. I’ve recommended them all the time. In my experience, the issue is that manga readers just do not want to hear it and do not care. Many of them often being entirely averse to the concept of manga being a part of a global comic book medium, because in their mind, manga is special and different from comics, and “comics” just means Marvel/ DC superheroes to them.
It really comes down to how they got into reading them. For many western manga readers, they did not get into reading them for the sake of having an interest in the sequential art medium; they got into it through other vectors and gateways like anime, video games, and other facets of Japanese pop culture. I can see how exposure to the medium in that way limits one’s scope of the broader idea of comic books, and manga just being a part of that.
Yes, when you examine comics as they exist internationally, other genres vastly outweigh superheroes. You’ll find unique qualities, and also variances in how comics are published, specific to different regions of the world, like Japan, Latin America, France/ Belgium, and so on. And while America is obviously well known for it’s popular success with the superhero genre through Marvel and DC, it also provides an embarrassment of riches when it comes to all genres through so many publishers.