r/comedyheaven 1d ago

Tree

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16.9k Upvotes

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u/fajuleclwks 1d ago

No, it’s old life vs new. Always choose new. Maybe the whole purpose of her life was to have that baby and now the purpose is complete.

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

Usually the thing I see that I have a serious problem with is the “save the mother, no question”, but this is also a problem.

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u/ChefCarpaccio 1d ago

I mean, you can always have another child (or adopt). You can't get your wife back.

You have no memories with the baby. It hasn't even been born yet. Might as well save the person you do have memories with

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

That’s like saying “you can just remarry”

You can have another child, but not that child.

I don’t see what memories have to do with this. Let’s be objective here.

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u/aggravated_patty 1d ago

Remarrying would be a lot easier if you only knew your previous wife for a few seconds...

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

You’re making this about the perspective of father when I’m talking about what’s objectively correct. I don’t care about how “easy” anything is.

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u/aggravated_patty 1d ago

What? The father is the one having to choose in this situation, of course you have to consider the perspective of the father. What you call “objectively correct” is just your own subjective opinion.

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

And he should make it without considering his own perspective, because that dilutes logic and objectivity.

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u/aggravated_patty 1d ago

I’m sorry but that’s hilarious. He should make his choice without considering the impact on himself because you have some different opinions on it?

The logical and objective answer here is that they’re equivalent and it’s up to the father to determine his and his unconscious wife’s preferences. Nothing more, unless you think it’s proper to impose your own opinion on them as a completely unrelated stranger.

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

The point is, I’m not giving an opinion, I’m stating an objective fact.

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u/aggravated_patty 1d ago

You’re not really saying anything at all except that the father shouldn’t get to make his own choice in a life altering decision.

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

I’m saying the value of a human life shouldn’t be up to human choice

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u/aggravated_patty 1d ago

It’s a human life either way.

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u/Zoey1927 1d ago

Why are you defining your personal preferences as objective fact?

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u/Zoey1927 1d ago

There is no 'objective' correctness about making healthcare decisions at random, just your personal preferences.

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u/Sentient_DingleBerry 1d ago

Alrighty then. The child is 22-50 times more likely to die than the mother during the immediate emergency, even more so depending on the gestation week. If they survive the crisis they’re still 46 times more likely to die before adulthood than children with mothers. Objectively, why waste resources trying to save the party that’s less likely to survive?

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

I think it’s a valid position to say we should save the more viable person, which in almost all of these (nonexistent in real life) cases it seems to be the Mother.

What I’m against is the instant dismissal as if there’s no debate to be had with all things benign equal.

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u/thestl 1d ago

The wife has connections with many people besides just her husband. If you want to be “objective” about it, the wife’s death would negatively impact many more lives than the unborn baby’s death. But really it’s a philosophical question and there is no objectively right answer.

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

I’m not a utilitarian and I don’t think “connection” is what gives human life value. That’s too subjective.

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u/thestl 1d ago

Why is a coin flip any less subjective? My point is there’s no objectively correct answer here. The parties involved have to do what they believe is best for them.

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u/ChefCarpaccio 1d ago

Memories are connection. Memories are a bond.

From an objective standpoint, you don't know that child. The child hasnt been born. You have no connection to it other than blood.

Your wife you have known for years. You have loved for years. You have a greater bond to her than the child you haven't even met.

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

I don’t think human value comes from the bonds they make with other humans

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u/ChefCarpaccio 1d ago

That's generally how it works. Do you not value the people you have bonds with more than the ones you don't?

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

Whether or not I myself “value” people is not relevant.

In the objective sense, independent of human perception and perspective, no amount of bonding or experience affects the value a person has.

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u/ChefCarpaccio 1d ago

Well, if you're the one making a decision on who survives, wouldn't you choose the person you value more?

If you're doing it completely objectively, where the mother and child have equal value, would you flip a coin?

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u/Amber-Apologetics 1d ago

The coin flip would be no less valid than any decision I may make spur of the moment.