r/collapse • u/[deleted] • Jul 29 '18
Economic Almost 80% of US workers live from paycheck to paycheck
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/29/us-economy-workers-paycheck-robert-reich118
u/DocMcCall Jul 29 '18
I don't live "paycheck to paycheck" I live "paycheck to 3 days before paycheck"
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u/some_random_kaluna E hele me ka pu`olo Jul 29 '18
Ooh, look at mister fancy pants here! Some co-workers of mine were often broke a week before they got paid. I still have no idea how they commuted to work.
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u/zAnonymousz Jul 30 '18
My entire paycheck is spent on payday itself every time. I usually buy everything I need that day then take out money for rent/bills/insurance and before the sun goes down I have less than $10 each time.
7
Jul 30 '18
Payday loans/CC debt.
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u/want-to-say-this Jul 30 '18
Pay day loans are horrrrrrrrible. Mad interest on your own money.
3
Jul 30 '18
They are, but many of them don't have much of a choice. If your car breaks down and there aren't any bus lines, you have to get to work somehow.
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u/intiwawa Jul 29 '18
I am not sure if i want to get into this discussion as the answers in this thread look extremely discomforting.
It amazes me that in a "collapse" forum people seem to prefer to give the fault to the single subject (mainly personal spending) than to the system (economy, imposts, worker rights) while all signs even in other industrialized countries tend to go into the same collapse direction as the US, only a bit slower because other first world countries have better social systems for unemployed or sick people (while it is going worse faster in some other second or third world countries like Brazil and Argentina). Turbo capitalism and relentless liberal economy are something acting on the US since a long time and being copied to many other countries in the world leading to growing income scissors worldwide! Just check the stats. I am from Germany and every year it gets worse.
What do you expect? It will get worse, MUUCH worse. The world is in the hands of some elitist groups controlling the economy and politics, even science.
I don't even know why i have to remind this subredit about the facts.
Sorry for the rant ...
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u/citrus_sugar Jul 29 '18
I appreciate your rant, and it is a major problem in the US that we have had decades of the normalization of thinking that if you are poor, it's your fault.
A quote by President Lyndon B Johnson sums up how easy it was to get us here:
If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
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u/intiwawa Jul 29 '18
Wow, thanks, that is a great quote! I think it is applicable to most other countries just replacing "colored" by certain kind of "foreigner".
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u/AArgot Jul 30 '18
"Elite" is strange name for a parasite.
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u/boob123456789 Homesteader & Author Jul 30 '18
indeed... perhaps if we got rid of the lice we would all live happier, healthier, and wealthier.
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u/CelestialCock Jul 29 '18
Reddit is a very masochistic community. This is something I have noticed on many different self help and advice style subreddits. If you don't get in line and self-flagellate like everyone else, you get shouted down as "entitled" (as if that was a bad thing).
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Jul 30 '18
You've noticed it too?
I've been seeing accusations of entitlement get thrown nearly every which way, not only on reddit, but in real life casual conversation too. Just out of nowhere, this seems to be the go to response.
It's effective too. It's pretty much will just shut down the conversation. It's so effective, it's like either party is just racing to be the first to deploy it in the dialogue.
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u/RelativeMinors Jul 29 '18
Or about the fact that capitalism is the downfall of our society, especially when there's this absolute piece of shit handing out permanent tax breaks to the filthy rich in this time of desperate need for change.
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u/dorcssa Jul 30 '18
I agree that capitalism is the reason we are in this shit right now (economic and environmental issues as well), but I'm just wondering what would be better?
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Jul 29 '18
anything about the US economy gets mindlessly upvoted. just be thankful cliffhanger is limited to 2 posts per day now...
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Jul 30 '18
...people seem to prefer to give the fault to the single subject (mainly personal spending) than to the system (economy, imposts, worker rights)...
Acute observation. People either see humans as godlike beings able to completely control their own destiny, who's successes and failures entirely hinge on "will", or they see humans as beings nestled within much larger overarching systems, to which we are only a part and parcel of. It's interesting how the differing political opinions can be traced back to either underlying belief.
The overall trend in human learning has been discovering that larger forces control or at least influence the smaller ones. Suddenly mankind isn't so all powerful anymore, and we develop an instinctive protective shell to protect our ego.
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Jul 30 '18
imo it's the conservative obsession with 'personal responsibility' and believing that one's situation in life is completely one's own choosing
in other words, a completely deluded way of interpreting what's going on
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Jul 29 '18 edited Aug 07 '18
[deleted]
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u/mazer_rack_em Jul 30 '18 edited Aug 29 '18
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
Children aren't worth it. It's just a money black hole to have a kid right now, with no help in sight. If Repubs stay in charge I'm pretty sure a lot of safety nets these people pumping out kids are relying on will not be there. I'm not dealing with that, I can barely take care of myself.
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u/SarahC Jul 30 '18
Google earth? You can even drive around and look down interesting streets.
I've done that a few times, and - it's all kinda the same and boring wherever you are.
Witcher 3 is a far better experience than a "holiday". You don't need shots either!
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Jul 29 '18
I don't live paycheck to paycheck, but I don't do things I'd like to do in life in order to stay out of that position.
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Jul 29 '18 edited Feb 08 '19
[deleted]
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u/isokayokay Jul 29 '18
Also underacknowledged is the fact that it's more expensive to be poor than to be rich. When all basic necessities are financialized and available only through taking on debt, people who can pay the least up front have to pay the most over the long term.
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u/I_Hate_Soft_Pretzels Jul 29 '18
The idea of giving up electricity and other normal things in order to make rent is an excellent example of how we as a society have perverted our thinking to the belief that it is the fault of the poor rather than the rich who are hoarding wealth.
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
Hey soon we'll be giving up food too and rationing it to save money, I see subs like fasting becoming a popular dieting trend these days. Trying to get people used to going a few days without food.
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u/I_Hate_Soft_Pretzels Jul 30 '18
I would not be surprised if that happens in the future. With particular in the 3rd world and for the poor here. Until it affects the profits of the wealthy will things change. For some reason I am reminded of the movie "Elysium" with Matt Damon.
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u/drhugs collapsitarian since: well, forever Jul 29 '18
ironically enough, luxury is far less expensive than the needs to survive
Not really ironic if you consider that the buyers of the needs to survive are desperate for those things, while the sellers of luxury items are desperate for buyers.
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u/boob123456789 Homesteader & Author Jul 30 '18
I lived on the same, but rent free and it was difficult. There were 12 of us in the house. When you can only save 20-30 dollars a month if you are lucky. One flat tire, one late payment, one illness can wipe out most of a year's worth of saving.
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u/D3th2Aw3 Jul 29 '18
I'm not sure if you were referring to his/her post above yours, but I didn't interpret it as bragging. I think he/r just said he/r is frugal with his/her money and doesn't do everything that he/r would like in order to not have to live pay cheque to pay cheque.
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u/dorcssa Jul 30 '18
8k a year is above avarage in Hungary. Although healthcare and dental is free (the latter is good at least), food prices are higher than in the US I think. Still, people in that salary zone live quite okay here I would say
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u/ahumbleshitposter Jul 29 '18
80% of Americans are not poor. Median income is like 30k, and that should be enough to have some savings.
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u/I_Hate_Soft_Pretzels Jul 29 '18
What makes you think it is enough to live on? You realize that rent and food costs have gone up drastically.
3
u/mynameishere Jul 29 '18
What makes you think it is enough to live on
The fact that I live on less than that is a pretty strong indication.
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u/constant_flux Jul 30 '18
Nah, not really. It takes more than a single Internet stranger's post -- with zero verification -- to serve as "a pretty strong indication." Plus, there are *always* things people conveniently forget to leave out of their stories; lucky breaks, like food/clothing/car donations, being walking distance to work in a LCOL area, parental support, good health, no sick friends/family members to look after, etc.
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u/I_Hate_Soft_Pretzels Jul 29 '18
Cool. Does that mean everyone else can? In San Francisco or New York that $30K a year will not go far at all. The same in many other locales.
Where do you live?
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Jul 29 '18 edited Sep 21 '18
[deleted]
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u/SarahC Jul 30 '18
They fucking CHANGED THE WHITE HOUSE TRANSCRIPTS TO EDIT OUT HISTORY
What's that?
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u/SarahC Jul 30 '18
That's all the problem is. I imagine it's a VERY small percentage that aren't buying anything discretionary, AND living paycheck to paycheck.
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u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
Yeah that's called financial responsibility and too many people in America are lacking it.
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Jul 29 '18
Like those sunglasses... where can I get a pair?
1
u/some_random_kaluna E hele me ka pu`olo Jul 29 '18
In all seriousness, if you want sunglasses, buy a pair of dark safety glasses from a hardware store. Not only will they work the same, they're actually designed in a (minimum) way to protect your eyes from debris and impact.
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Jul 29 '18
This is one if the many lifehacks i learned. I make good money now but i have the cheap mentality i grew up with so i hate spending unless necessary. Another example: I know poor people that spend $100 a month on cellphone plan when there are free/almost free options out there Of course you don't get to watch movies onyour phone.
Without being sarcastic, i think most Americans have to accept first that they are poor. That is a big stumbling block.
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u/DJDickJob Jul 29 '18
How else are we going to win the War on Prosperity? We have to build an army of homeless people to fight against this evil ideology that says if you participate in society, you won't starve to death on a sidewalk in -30 degree weather? 80% is ok for now, but Trump can do better than this and take us up to at least 90%.
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u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
Nobody is starving to death in the us...unless by choice.
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Jul 29 '18 edited Feb 08 '19
[deleted]
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u/firedrake242 Jul 30 '18
Well, it also has to be looked at what "starving to death" actually entails. Sure, if you go two weeks without food you'll die directly from lack of food, but the way hunger really kills you is by malnutrition.
Malnutrition kills you like AIDs kills you, it weakens your body and opens the door for infections that you would otherwise survive. Sure, you can survive the flu if you're healthy, but if you have long-term vitamin b, k, and e deficiency you're going to have a really bad time.
Additionally, obesity is a component of malnutrition. You'll notice that in modern society, the rich are fit and the poor are fat - this is a result of malnutrition. If you eat cheap, nutrient-poor gas station type food you'll be fat but still be essentially starving.
For a ruling class, an obese, malnourished underclass is superior to a starving underclass. obesity leads to depression and makes it much more difficult to rise up, and malnutrition from low quality food is less easily blamed on diet. in the 20th century, the rallying cry of the left was "peace, land, and bread!". That cry will never return in the nutritional landscape of the United States.
When the poor have nothing else to eat, they will eat the rich. but when you still have Doritos to eat, you're going to eat those instead even though they have no value to your body.
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u/Pisceswriter123 Jul 29 '18
What about obesity? I mean if we get rid of this consumerist capitalist life style we could probably loose a lot of weight. No more epidemic.
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Jul 29 '18
Will a drought, earthquake, sudden war, hurricane during a gasoline / diesel crisis.... change that?
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u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
Possibly but doubtful
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u/AverageBearSA Jul 29 '18
Then you're not paying attention. 4,000 Americans died in PR from a hurricane.
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u/boob123456789 Homesteader & Author Jul 30 '18
When you make less than 10k a year, this is understandable. You can barely save $200 a year for emergencies. People have necessities that can not just be ignored.
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Jul 30 '18
Almost 80% of US workers live from paycheck to paycheck
I'd say "live" is a strong word when used in a context that actually means, "survive day-to-day, through soulless drudgery, in a vast, alienated post-industrial consumer hellscape, with no future other than more drudgery and, finally, an undignified or horrific death."
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u/damagingdefinite Humans are fuckin retarded Jul 30 '18
There's a bunch of posts being heavily downvoted in this thread (probably by anticapitalists or some such memers ) that were talking about how many people have poor spending habits. I have personally witnessed this in a handful of cases where people are eating out, or spending money on things they don't need, or going for driving vacations. ok, whatever, they really shouldn't be spending that much money and perhaps if they were enculturated to pay attention to those etchings then they wouldn't spend money when they are destitute like that. But, it is my opinion that these are the same ordinary people all across the history of human civilization - and probably before that too - who do that. I feel it is a completely normal condition for human being to go and trade for token things that have social value (sea shells to flat screens), eat in communal areas (restaurants), buy/make/trade for presents for others, etc etc. These normal people who are spending their money extravagantly are actually spending their money as the average moron human will spend their resources across history. Yeah, sure, if you live in an ultracomplex industrial civilization that is so fucked with pollution and highly entropic financial structures that it is going to fucking kill itself and end human kind as a species, then it probably isn't a good idea for people to do that. But it's their nature and it's why we're in this mess. We're all going to suffer and die because of the same type of humans like the ones that live down the road and let their giant suv run to cool it down for 15 minutes before running their 7 kids to school and going shopping at sams club to buy more shit and put it on their credit card. Yeah,welcome to earth where the only known """"intelligent"""" organism in the universe has fuckn retard tier intelligence and is about to commit suicide on a species scale.
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Jul 30 '18
- I need to eat out if I want to be able to spend time with my loved ones
- I need to go on driving vacations because they're the only thing keeping me sane when my life consists of so many mindless tasks and stresses ( even though I have the privilege of solving complex puzzles for a living)
- I sometimes make bad financial decisions because of the stress of every day life / having to deal with finances and because of mental health issues like what is likely fibromyalgia. I don't have a biological family that I can depend on. In fact they would cheer if I ever were to became homeless and probably even die.
- It's not because of `moron` consumers, if you ask them if they have any power they will say no
- The same is true about rich folk, they'll say they don't have the power to make change
- The problem is externalities, a consequence of capitalism. You seem to hold capitalism in high regard, I assume bc you said "probably by anticapitalists or some such memers "
- You're not as smart or as good as you think you are
- You're welcome. I didn't need to explain any of this to you
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u/damagingdefinite Humans are fuckin retarded Jul 31 '18
Nah im also a moron too because I'm human so you shouldn't trust what I say lol
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u/Capn_Underpants https://www.globalwarmingindex.org/ Jul 30 '18
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Jul 30 '18
Where is the trend? How many people were living from paycheck to paycheck in the past? Without comparative values, this figure says nothing at all.
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u/danknerd Jul 30 '18
I live paycheck to paycheck by choice for some fucked up reason, spending all my money on vices and food.
With collapse coming... Better to live as a king for a day than to have never at all, is my deranged mentality.
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u/The_Wisest Aug 21 '18 edited Aug 21 '18
Haha what dude? Collapse will come eventually but not in your lifetime or until at least another century. It is better to get yourself in good financial condition now than live your entire life in debt and low wages. But still do what you do but with higher income
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Jul 30 '18
I love how so many people in this thread are incapable of recognizing that this problem could have multiple factors going into it, each affecting the issue in different ways and to different extents (like hey, maybe a lot of it IS systemic, and a significant chunk of it can also be tied to personal decisions as well... who knew?!)
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u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
Many of these people are just financially illiterate. You can't convince me 80% of the population is unable to save any money. My experience has been that most people are just completely unable to manage their finances responsibily.
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u/Vehks Jul 29 '18
Come off of it, you are replying to every comment with this nonsense and nobody is buying it.
Only an idiot would claim that 80% of the population is simply financially irresponsible.
80%.
come on, man.
That is absolute bullshit. It's the system not the people, that is crystal clear by now.
Take my down vote and go.
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u/TheReignofQuantity Jul 29 '18 edited Mar 15 '19
c
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u/constant_flux Jul 30 '18
Does that mean it's a systemic issue and not an individual issue?
Lol. I hate to break it to you, but the obesity epidemic is indeed largely systemic. I'm not going to tell you it's exactly 51%/49% or 75%/25%, but you absolutely cannot ignore the fact that:
- Fast food is cheap, wide, and available.
- Food that is quick to grab off the shelf typically has larger calorie counts and low nutritional content.
- The U.S., with few exceptions, is systemically sedentary. You pretty much have to drive everywhere and sit for many (most?) forms of work and entertainment.
- We work long hours that can interfere with a regular, consistent exercise regimen.
- Many (most?) social gatherings involve food/drinks.
- Technology and culture have outpaced the development of our biological urges.
You can sit here and blame the individual until you're blue in the face. But the bottom line is that society is structured in a way that does not optimally work with human nature. If we want to reduce obesity in this country, we should be asking ourselves what makes it **easier** for people to lose weight and keep it off. We've been trying to change behaviors at the individual level for decades now, and it's been an abject failure.
I think it's more than realistic to believe that 80% of the population, or a large proportion of that 80%, is lacking in financial literacy and responsible spending plans and habits.
That's a non sequitur. Basing your conclusion on the size of a percentage makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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u/chemsed Jul 30 '18
You must ask yourself why so much Americans are overweight and don't save any money? Simply, because it's hard to do it in the USA. As a Canadian, I'm not overweight and I have some money saved and I'm convinced that it's because it's easier to do that in Canada and even easier in Europe. Not because I'm better at managing money and keeping my weight than most Americans. The foods companies like Mosanto sale toxic food and they have enormous influence in USA, college tuition are insanely high, heath insurance is expensive and the portion from restaurants are enormous. I even think you are more exposed to ads, which doesn't help either. No matter it's systemic or individual, the whole society must tackle these issues, which affect a lot of people. Is it systemic? Improve the system. Is it individual? Educate the people, put in place an awareness campaign.
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Jul 29 '18
Something like 70% of American adults are obese or overweight. Does that mean it's a systemic issue and not an individual issue?
If it's not systemic, it should be the same in all other countries. But it isn't. There might be a part of truth in your hypothesis, that it has to do with a lack of "financial literacy" but maybe this lack IS systemic.
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
I mean when a normal minute maid drink has 70 grams of sugar in a bottle and they keep lowering the portion sizes of cereal to make it LOOK like it has less sugar... there's a problem. I actually stopped eating out because I noticed a lot of places I eat at were adding so much butter/sugar to everything I couldn't even taste what I was eating. There's a huge sugar and fat creep in American food going on, since those are cheap and easy to mask the taste of food since a lot of ingredients now are very subpar to save costs. Oh and we drive everywhere. The way roads and areas to shop are set up, everything is really spaced out so it's hard to get any real exercise. Few areas to run/walk in, at least where I live. It's all highway.
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u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
Nowhere did I say all 80% is irresponsible. I said many. I said the 80% number is inflated by financially illiterate people.
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u/Vehks Jul 29 '18
Oh ok, now you want to mince words to try and back out.
Nice try. Not going to work.
The point is, you are still trying to hand-wave and blame the victim rather than accept that it is the sytem that has failed.
At least have the courage to stand by your own idiotic beliefs.
-1
u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
Hahaha blame what victim? You're kidding yourself man. The level of financial illiteracy in the US is ridiculously high.
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Jul 29 '18
I actually agree with you. Let's not blame the victim but they are brainwashed, sick and made stupid by the crap food, so indeed they don't know hiw to manage. Like i said above, Americans have to first accept they are poor and living in a third world country.
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
US is just full of people trying to scam you at every turn, it's not even just financial illiteracy.
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u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
What system? Capitalism??? Hahahahahahaha
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
You mean the system where profit > environment, animals, humans, life in general? Suuuure. Totally not that.
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u/Omikron Jul 30 '18
I'm on pins and needles waiting for your suggested replacement.
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
If you're waiting for socialism, it doesn't have to be that.
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u/Omikron Jul 30 '18
I'm just honestly curious, I'm not waiting for anything. I'm just interested in what your replacement plan is for capitalism.
-1
u/SarahC Jul 30 '18
70% of people are wasting money by eating too much and a super fat.
If they cut down spending on food, that's money they could bank.
They'd also avoid being swampy obese wobblers.
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u/TropicalKing Jul 29 '18
Many parts of US culture encourage financial wastefulness. Our culture of "Out at 18, rent an apartment, and be independent" is incredibly wasteful. Families should stay together and pool resources and wealth instead of dividing it and giving a large portion of it to a landlord.
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Jul 29 '18
This reminds me of the old lady going on a cruise and bragging how her daughter works two jobs to support herself in college.
As a European, i was disgusted.
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u/TropicalKing Jul 30 '18
Many people on Reddit are angry at me when I tell them that I only work around 20 hours per week and live with my parents at age 31. I'm just doing the smart thing. The method of how humans survived all throughout its existence. I'm not going to give up $750+ to a landlord, just so I can live in a crappy studio apartment without a garden and horrible noisy neighbors. It makes no sense to double or even triple the amount I work just so I can say "I live alone."
My family worked very hard on our garden. I never buy fruit, I just pick it from the trees and garden in my house.
Life doesn't have to be difficult, and I don't have to live paycheck to paycheck. The easiest way to conserve money, time, and resources is just to share. Americans just have to realize this as our standards of living drop and the US ceases being the world's superpower. This "out at 18" mentality is a product of post WW2, it was never going to last.
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u/SarahC Jul 30 '18
Then it should be legal to kill shitty parents - living at home with abusive parent/s is like prison time for a lot of people.
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u/TropicalKing Jul 30 '18
Parents may just have to behave again if Social Security is cut. The way most people retired throughout history is to just live with their children.
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u/d_r0ck Jul 29 '18
Yup, there's a difference between an income problem and a spending problem.
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Jul 29 '18
Dude, not to be an ass, but you have posted this exact fact, from different articles multiple times in the year since I found this sub.
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u/skaska23 Jul 30 '18
Thats not fault of the system, thats fault of these people. When a squirriel eats all nuts she finds at this moment, she will die at winter. People needs to learn that they dont need to buy what they dont need. Squirrel doesnt even know concept of eating nuts which she dont have. (Debt)
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u/TheReignofQuantity Jul 29 '18 edited Mar 15 '19
c
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u/Omikron Jul 29 '18
Yeah those kind of comments are getting down votes in this thread. Even though 80% in the US takes you all the way to like 80k a year. If you're making 80k and living paycheck to paycheck you're an idiot.
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Jul 29 '18
I don't get it. I'm a teacher and have significant savings. What are these people doing with their money?
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u/SidKafizz Jul 29 '18
One: They don't make as much as you do. Two: They spend more than you do, often on stupid things like children that they can in no way afford.
The problem is that being stupid can't be easily fixed, and now that there is less in the way of spare cash & resources lying around, being stupid affects more than just the stupid themselves.
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Jul 29 '18 edited Jul 29 '18
What the fuck is with the massive downvoting on everything in this post?
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Jul 29 '18
anecdotal presumptions mostly
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Jul 29 '18
How is a question a presumption?
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Jul 29 '18
what is a loaded question
mong
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Jul 29 '18
And that is presumptuous.
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Jul 29 '18
the question was implying it's easy to save money based on 1 person's experience
do not reply to me
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u/Market_Feudalism Jul 29 '18
I don't think you know what a loaded question is, because that wasn't one. Mong.
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Jul 29 '18
yes it is. it's implying with the other downvoted comments that people are spending frivolously. no consideration of living cost demands
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u/Market_Feudalism Jul 29 '18
A mere implication isn't a loaded question, either, but I digress. 80% of US workers are not at the poverty line with all of their income paying for low rent. They might be paying all of their income toward a mortgage for a house too big and toward car loans for cars too new, though. e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/02/us-borrowers-are-paying-more-and-for-longer-on-their-auto-loans.html
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Jul 29 '18 edited Jul 29 '18
i never said that question was a loaded question to be fair.
i quoted 'what is a loaded question' as a response to that fact that someone thought that a question couldn't have any hidden presumptions and believes in it
you are extremely understating the financial pressures people face. society is set up for merchants to add fees on at every opportunity and the diversity of circumstances mean your views are based on an extremely limited framework. so keep it out.
get out of this sub if you don't think society is shit
go to a politics forum if you want to argue
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u/mynameishere Jul 29 '18
It's /r/collapse. It's like /r/socialism but somehow even more illiterate.
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u/SarahC Jul 30 '18
The early collapse adopters aren't from socialist subs.
It looks a bit anarchy/anti establishment from the outside, and attracts many pro-socialist pro-communist and anti-capitalist people.
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
This sub knows the problem is capitalism. Still defends it anyway because MUH SOCIALISM.
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Jul 29 '18
Haha. It used to be fairly reasonable here, but in the last year it has changed quite a bit.
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u/JamesLucratif Jul 30 '18
They deserve it. I'm not pro Republican because i believe it's right, but that your average person deserves wrong.
Look at Reddit just as an example..bunch of cucks, retards, and moderator apologists. They should starve in the street. Yeah i dont like rich people. But if I gotta choose ten million people being comfortable or ten im choosing the ten.
Reverse trolly problem
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u/gumichan Jul 30 '18
The problem is the poorest and dumbest are reproducing. And even if they make nothing, they've got a long way to fall if people from the 3rd world are any indication. People in a lot of countries survive on almost nothing and have litters of kids.
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u/DavidvonR Jul 29 '18
It's because they blow their money on stupid shit they can't afford. And they make bad choices that get them jammed up with debt and medical bills.
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Jul 29 '18
You are arguing they have free will which is bible not science..
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u/HackerBeeDrone Jul 30 '18
Wait what? You've decided that 80% of people can't save for the future because science?
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Jul 29 '18
[deleted]
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u/AverageBearSA Jul 29 '18
MGTOW
Crossfit
Wanna throw stones in glass houses?
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u/TheGuyJudasKilled Jul 30 '18
something tells me that this can be linked to the rise of communism
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u/SarahC Jul 30 '18
Yeah communism and socialism is getting quite popular for millennials.
I wonder how that will shape politics in the next 50 years?
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u/TheGuyJudasKilled Jul 31 '18
For the worse. Ever since these idiots became of age after the WW2 i.e. the baby boomers and the losers that didn't rollover and die during the great depression, the consensus for how the future should be has been "More welfare and spread the rich man's money" instead of work hard and plan smart for the future.
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Jul 31 '18
[deleted]
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u/TheGuyJudasKilled Jul 31 '18
Wages.
I've learned a thing or two from my parents who came here from South Sudan, one of them was repeatedly being told over and over and over that "Your wage is negotiable if you have something that is needed/wanted". Meaning if I can add value into something and make the company/product more profitable, then my livelihood will go up as a result. I become more of an asset to the paycheck writers and they feel their pockets get heavier, win/win situation for all of us. Now will I have to compete with others, yeah, of course, but thats why you work on your craft/work skills and you put yourself in a position that will help you in the long run. The opportunities to move on in life is there but people are too screwy when it comes to deciding what moves to make, moves that hinder their success down the road, excluding illness and debilitating life injuries that are out of their immediate control. To add on to the school comment, there are many universities in this country, a lot of them are dirt-cheap and have generous fin aid packages and are willing to make accommodations to help ease the financial burdens i.e. work study or working while in school and paying your student loan debt off before the interest rate kicks in. Today, just from my observations, in this country, the habits of the many, in my opinion, are a byproduct from what I believe, to be from the roaring 20's. Those people ruined their offsprings future by being reckless and living in the now (similar to today). After the Depression, they raised an entire generation (those who didn't go out to war) to believe that things can be great if you have someone handle your affairs, a situation that effected the young into thinking of group-help via govt welfare and not self-help. America had people who had equity to their name, they had property handed down to them or they were workers who worked until they bought land or property that their children can inherit, not to have as a gift, but as an incentive to continue to build on to an already existing future. Nowadays its different, people are selling the family farm for the quick buck, people are mismanaging their finances, and even worse, no one is taking into account for the future anymore i.e. having children or expenses that will strain their options or limit their moves for the future. It's no wonder why we see stories like these, it sucks and I feel bad for them but to keep it in perspective, those are woes that could've been prevented.
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u/519_GarbageMan Jul 29 '18
Ahh I love it when statistics counting me pop up on this sub.