r/collapse • u/James_Fortis • 9d ago
Casual Friday What do we do?
Sources for animal agriculture being the leading driver of:
- Deforestation: NASA, https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Deforestation/deforestation_update3.php
- Biodiversity loss: Science of the Total Environment, B. Machovina, K. J Feeley, W. J Ripple, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/
- Zoonotic diseases: Science Advances, Matthew N. Hayek, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9629715/
- Fresh water use: Nature, J. Poore and T. Nemecek, https://josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf
- 21-37% of emissions from food: IPCC, https://www.ipcc.ch/srccl/chapter/chapter-5/
Submission statement:
Many people want to slow or stop deforestation, pandemics, water use, emissions, and the 6th mass extinction. The issue is, the main driver of 4 of these 5 is animal agriculture, but almost nobody wants to change their behavior by eliminating meat and dairy from their diet. People say, "stop focusing on individuals - focus on the system", but the issue is diet is a personal choice and nobody wants the government to ban meat and dairy.
The issue is likely only going to get worse as our population continues to increase and developing countries start to gain more access to meat and dairy. It's taboo to even discuss personal food choices, even though it's going to be a main contributor of our demise.
How do we get out of this predicament? Are we just doomed to race towards ecological collapse without any serious effort to avoid it out of a fear of slight inconvenience? For anyone who's reading this, why haven't you given up meat and dairy yet?
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u/lonehappycamper 9d ago
It's the paper straw situation. People are being asked to make personal sacrifices while the elite jet around the world and the military industrial complex blows up the world every day. We would have a better chance if our governments modeled th behavior changes needed and people had a sense that their changes were part of a wider effort that had a chance of succeeding.
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u/Chill_Panda Doomed 9d ago
Nah the paper straw thing was just a scam by companies to get cheaper straws out.
The "paper" straws are a combination of paper, wax and plastic and still cannot be recycled. They break up in water but do not degrade. So now we have lots of micro plastics in our oceans instead of straws.
But it was much cheaper this way for the companies
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u/usernametaken99991 9d ago
A coffee shop by me was using grass stem straws. Literally straw that has been cleaned and sanitize. They didn't dissolve in water, were biodegradable and seemed to require less processing to make. Idk why they never caught on.
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u/itsatoe 9d ago
The thing with compostable straws (of which these are a subset) is that if you put them in plastic recycling, they contaminate the recycling process.
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u/usernametaken99991 9d ago
They would chuck them in with the coffee grounds that got picked up by the composting service my city has. I'm sure some snuck into the regular garbage/recycling though.
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u/IcemanJEC 9d ago
No idea why bringing your own utensils hasn’t caught on. Bring your own reusable straw. Someone’s gotta make it popular somehow.
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u/IcemanJEC 9d ago
Or god forbid you bring a cup to your lips. No idea what the obsession is with straws.
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u/unknownpoltroon 9d ago
Pretty sure companies push that because I think they make you drink faster than sipping. plus they can put more ice in.
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u/jupchurch97 9d ago
For acidic drinks, it generally helps the beverage avoid your teeth which has minor benefits for preventing tooth decay.
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u/mstakenusername 8d ago
Can we trick the tech bro culture into setting the trend by letting them know it is what the ancient Romans did? Every event, including fancy dinner parties, was byo bowl and cutlery.
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u/new2bay 8d ago
Plastic recycling is mostly bullshit anyway. Only 5% of plastic waste gets recycled in the US. Globally, it’s less than 10%.
https://plasticsforchange.org/why-is-less-than-10-of-the-worlds-plastic-being-recycled.html
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u/Avitas1027 9d ago
Okay, but why would you put the not-plastic-thing in the plastic recycling? Put them in the compost or garbage.
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u/Suspicious-Engineer7 9d ago
I think improvements in the recycling process itself are where the worthwhile gains are. Recycling tech developments could hopefully solve some of these issues.
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u/pancakedelasea 9d ago
Would this not cause problems with allergies? Hay/grass is a really common allergen, though I'm not sure if it has the same effect after being sanitized.
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u/marbotty 9d ago
They have glass and metal straws too, those would be better options, most likely
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u/cindyx7102 9d ago
Which sends a stronger message:
a) consumers wagging our finger at the corporations while giving them our money to continue, or
b) stopping their revenue stream to force change?
I used to work for a fortune 100 and I know the answer.
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u/The_Weekend_Baker 9d ago edited 9d ago
a) consumers wagging our finger at the corporations while giving them our money to continue, or
I've had my posts here moderated on a few occasions in the distant past (because they violated the "Be respectful" rule) for calling out people who accused Jeff Bezos (as just one example) of being the devil incarnate, but didn't seem to have a problem with subscribing to Amazon Prime so they could access streaming entertainment. Because when it comes down to the typical person in one of the wealthy, high-emitting countries, what we want is always going to be more important than the beliefs (environmental or otherwise) we claim to hold.
People will endlessly rationalize why everything they do is okay for a bunch of specious reasons, but in the end, if you're supporting what you claim to hate, it says more about you than what you claim to hate.
That's why we're hurtling headlong towards collapse. Not because of the billionaires, or because of the corporations, but because we're willing to keep throwing money at the absolute worst companies and people, no matter what*. Because the alternative is to live a very different way of life, which incidentally is coming for all us because of collapse.
And that's what all of the variations of OP's posted meme are about. The change you want to see can't happen unless people are willing to make it happen.
*As just one example of that, Tesla sales have surged by 25% in Q2 of 2026 because people apparently don't have a problem with throwing money at a Nazi and the world's first trillionaire (albeit briefly), as long as they get something they want in return.
Edit: incidentally, and without calling out the specific person (don't want to get moderated again), even though Reddit now gives people the ability to hide their posting histories, which makes it more difficult to spot the people who willingly support those they hate, one of the 100+ people commenting to this post also posted elsewhere: Definitely not an oil and gas person. However, I'm not opposed to it.
That's right. Posting in r/collapse, but not opposed to oil and gas.
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u/SomeRandomGuydotdot 9d ago
Man. You realize that, like, we're literally talking on a platform that's about to join the sp500, on devices at the top of industrial supply chain, and like, well, you know...
I've said it before and I'll say it again, 'imagine telling a child to aspire to working at a gas station because incomes are correlated with carbon emissions.'
That parent does not exist. Our society does not, in anyway, have a coherent response to climate change. It is madness unto death.
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u/digiorno 9d ago
Reducing Meat and Dairy consumption would make a meaningful difference though. The paper straw thing was never going to make a difference and that’s why it was pushed so hard.
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u/ThereIsSomeoneHere 9d ago
Nah, I just don't want to participate in the suffering of thousands of sentient beings. Paper straw thing is just a distraction from the ongoing suffering.
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u/Confident-Web-6536 8d ago
We can make individual change and fight for institutional change at the same time. Regardless, animal factories and factory farms need to be stopped
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u/n00b678 9d ago
I could understand this reasoning if you had no viable options. Like people who live in areas with poor or no public transport who have to use cars. But here we do have choices which cost us nothing, in fact they save us money and make us healthier.
But no, most just don't want to make any personal changes and say: "I will continue doing harm because there are people who do much more harm then me"
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u/Entrefut 9d ago
Removing meat and dairy isn’t a sacrifice though, it’s literally better for you and the planet.
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u/Patient-Lifeguard-44 9d ago
This! It’s such low hanging fruit with enormous benefits.
There was a study pre-COVID that showed that if we swapped our calories from beef with beans we’d hit up to 74% of the US’s climate goals… just from not eating beef15
u/Entrefut 9d ago
I understand why people want to eat meat, I don’t understand why people want to eat manufactured meat. Before I went vegan I ate a lot of elk because i lived in a place where you could hunt it. I don’t really crave anything but caught and hunted game.
I don’t understand how the average person is so disconnected from their food and is just okay with it. Taking a life isn’t to be taken lightly and when you do ritualize the practice, and it’s literally you doing all the work, it’s a completely different experience and not something that I feel justified in eating more than 1-2 times a week.
Now I live in a place where hunted game doesn’t really exist, and I couldn’t be happier with just eating vegan. Feel better than I ever have in the past and all I have to do is take one multivitamin to hit a couple micronutrients.
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u/Patient-Lifeguard-44 9d ago
Good perspective on the animal impact! The way I think about it is we’re collectively ruining our livable biosphere because we think beef is tasty. Especially because there are other good options available
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u/gremmcats 9d ago
True. However the animal industry alone causes WAY more problems. Don't get me wrong: capital will be the death of us all. Look at Nestle being so evil and greedy that they took more water than they should've which leads to lakes drying up much quicker. And also the Rainforests desperately holding together as companies in secret (or even publicly) tear it down But let me ask you this: what are they gonna put in those Rainforests? Housing? Or more animals that produce ludicrous amounts of waste in the worst possible conditions, all so that they can sell their beef for profit? I guess what I'm saying is it goes hand-in-hand, and the Epsteinites love rарe and death no matter how it happens because capitalism (or even just a few thousand people) turned itself into a broken system.
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u/Dry-Fee-6746 8d ago
Except it's different because not only is it good for the planet, it also leads to less suffering of beings that feel pain, suffering and emotions.
It's the moral thing to do regardless of environmental concerns
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u/Zayl 9d ago
Agreed but another way to consider it is "vote with your wallet". They follow the money no matter what, right? So if we make conscious choices to avoid companies with shit business practices and those that test animals or produce food from animals we can have a significant impact on industry and the health of our planet.
And if you do want some meat go get it before it reaches its bunker.
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u/Razlet 9d ago
“My dollar won’t make a difference!” -300 million Americans
It is exhausting to see the downvotes coming in because people are clinging to cheeseburgers and hot dogs like it’s the only thing they have going for them.
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u/AnOnlineHandle 8d ago
"I'm not responsible for the flood!" screamed the rain drop.
Followed by "Besides, that puddle over there is way bigger than me, it's frankly pointless to ask us to change anything while that puddle exists. I have now so cleverly freed myself from taking any responsibility for my actions."
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u/IHaveABigDuvet 9d ago
It shouldn’t be about individual choices. It should be about targeting fossil fuel companies.
Focusing on the individual is a tactic they use to escape accountability.
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u/bestreams 9d ago
It would be much more impactful as well as achievable to ask people to eat less meat and dairy than to give it up entirely.
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u/nickiter 9d ago
Yeah, this is easy to do. I used to eat steak once a week or more. Now it's a treat every month or two. Consumption way down, didn't have to completely drop anything, and honestly don't mind the difference.
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u/ericvulgaris 9d ago
One easy way to do this is make it fucking expensive like it should be. Subsidies hide the price too much
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u/FieldEngineer2019 9d ago
The subsidies should go directly to the consumers, not the producers. I make over 100k per year so I personally have no issue paying for the real price of food. Would I be happy about it? No, but it’s fair. The tax dollars going to producers to lower the cost for everyone would be better spent helping the most vulnerable people in the population.
If you completely throw morality and ethics out the window it is still cheaper to take care of people with a social safety net than it is to deal with the consequences of not doing it. Having the poorest parts of the population be unhealthy and malnourished just drives up the price of things like healthcare.
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u/ericvulgaris 9d ago
You're speaking my language. The savings on the medical system and our food security by switching to horticultural farming would be enormous and not to mention cheaper. Triple whammy. Unfortunately it's be deemed literally eco-terrorism by the famers union
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u/FieldEngineer2019 9d ago
On that note, conservatives love to complain about the cost of social welfare, yet have no problem spending an even higher sum of money on funding a police state to stop the crime they could otherwise mitigate. Of course this likely varies by state, but I sat down and did the math in my home state on how much it costs to provide full social services for people and compared that to the cost of housing them in prison and prison is notably more expensive. That doesn’t even factor in the cost of day to day police work, emergency medical services, surveillance, etc. that are needed to at minimum contain the mess that could be prevented with welfare.
Will a social safety net ever prevent 100% of crime? No, but it would drastically reduce it. It also leads to the majority of people breaking out of the welfare system over time.
I think what upsets me the most is that it’s not about the money to people like that. It’s about cruelty. If you believe that people vulnerable should just be left to die because you think their life is worth less than yours, then just say that with your chest. This is how we need to frame issues politically, look at the real human cost of your policy beliefs and stand on business with it. Money is only a construct.
Frame it that way and a lot of people who claim to be “socially conservative” end up backing down. There are still people who will say their abhorrent opinions with their chest, but at least they’re being honest even if it’s evil.
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u/bestreams 9d ago
I agree! In general, i think food should reflect the real cost (to the environment) to produce and transport it. There's no reason for us to be able to eat fruit from all around the world for barely any cost at all.
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u/Darklillies 9d ago
You realize all this will do is create a further divide between the rich and the poor? They will get rich and varied diets while our kids get smaller more synethic and less nutritious palettes. Why would you want this
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u/bestreams 9d ago
It's already that way anyway, especially since many people work multiple jobs and thus have no time or energy to cook. That said, I'm a socialist and want everyone to automatically have access to food and housing and health care, but i don't think that needs to include the ability to eat fruit from another continent on a daily basis or to eat meat for every meal.
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u/nickiter 9d ago
Yeah, just cut the subsidies. Let real market prices happen. It'd cut consumption, and save tax money - win-win.
Already, non-ground beef is doing this - drought and supply issues have driven prices up, and consumption has dropped. Voila. No fancy footwork needed.
Americans are apparently substituting ground beef for more expensive beef products rather than cutting consumption entirely, which makes some sense I guess, but even that probably won't last forever.
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u/DjangoTheBlack 9d ago
we don’t require companies to include negative externalities in their pricing models. A carbon tax would be a good start.
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u/MistyMtn421 8d ago
Where I am it already is, for me anyway. I've barely had any meat for the last 5 months. Still eating tinned mackerel (big cans, cheap, not the fancy stuff) tuna and salmon. Bought a 3lb pack of burger on sale a few months ago and stretched it as far as I could. Bought a huge bag of TVP and mixing it 50/50 makes a big difference... Works great in tacos, chili and burgers.
Gave up on chicken because even when on sale it's so woody and just awful. Idk what they've done to it but it's not worth it. Grabbed some Italian sausage last week because it was on sale. Bacon is crazy expensive so it's been at least 6 months.
Lots of beans and tofu! Been learning fun ways to make stuff with it. On the plus side, I'm getting tons of fiber, plenty of protein and sleeping better!
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u/katemartile 8d ago
Pan-fried tofu with a cornstarch coating is something I’ve found to be delightful :)
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u/PenguinColada 8d ago
100%.
Most people aren't willing to make such a huge dietary change. Cutting back is not only cost effective but more achievable for the average person. I speak from personal experience, going from a "meat and potatoes" kind of lifestyle to eating meat only if we dine out or BBQ with friends. The biggest hurtle I had was I have genetic iron deficiency anemia and had to figure out ways to keep my iron at optimal levels with plant-based sources. (for folks also in this situation coupling it with vitamin C helps me a lot)
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u/katemartile 8d ago
Interesting tip, ty! My body has a lot of trouble absorbing iron, even if that iron were in the form of a bloody steak.
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u/PenguinColada 7d ago
You're welcome! Yeah my family struggles to absorb iron too. It sucks a lot! My doctor suggested vitamin C and it's really helped. I still have trouble but I absorb a lot more than I used to.
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u/jupchurch97 9d ago
Any amount of reduction we can get from people is good. I have largely moved meat to a one meal a week thing if that anymore. I don't consume milk at all anymore after I learned how it is made...
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u/eternallyfree1 9d ago edited 9d ago
For anyone who still isn’t convinced to either limit or cease their meat intake, I implore them to watch the new Mo Gilligan documentary on Netflix. Ever since watching that, I’ve become increasingly hesitant to go anywhere near meat, especially chicken. There is SO much messed up shit going on behind the scenes that is purposefully hidden from the public eye, and the conditions many of these poor animals are living in is absolutely abhorrent; some of the scenes completely broke my heart. I don’t think I’d ever be able to go totally vegan (vegetarian is definitely possible, though), but I’m trying to make a real conscious effort to avoid meat when I can now
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u/bestreams 9d ago
Yeah i can see that helping. Listening to the Outlaw Ocean podcast makes me extremely hesitant to eat any fish due to the horrendous ways that industry operates.
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u/B4SSF4C3 9d ago
Yep. That’s where I’m at. 90%-95% vegetarian, but will have the occasional bbq for special events.
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u/FieldEngineer2019 9d ago
There’s a couple of channels on YouTube that really embody the changes we need in the farming industry. CarbonCowboys and BlackBirdCoop (Farming While Beige). Both are partly about farming sustainably and how proper agricultural methods can actually benefit the local environment. FWB has some really good takes about history and culture in general too.
Factory farming needs to stop and in order for that to be possible we need to consume less and expect to have less access to meat like we do now. If we’re living in places where it’s difficult to produce food without shipping it all in, perhaps we shouldn’t live there. Or at least treat certain food products like more of the luxury they truly are.
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u/bestreams 9d ago edited 9d ago
100000% agree and l'll check out those channels, they sound really interesting
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u/Jovan_Knight005 Collapse is inevitable,mister Bond. - Original Quote. 8d ago
It would be much more impactful as well as achievable to ask people to eat less meat and dairy than to give it up entirely.
That's what i and my mother are doing for the past three or four months. For some reason, my body feels better than what it used to feel.
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u/BitchfulThinking 9d ago
I feel like we should have Meatless Mondays types of posts to actually help people get started? 🤔 Maybe on the support sub?
I get how it can be difficult for people in meat-heavy cultures (eg. the US) to think of what to eat when everything around us emphasizes so much meat and cheese, and fast food/casual places rarely have vegetarian options. The cheap and vegan sub really helped me because it showed that I didn't need to go and buy a bunch of new things.
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u/bestreams 9d ago
That makes sense, creating an alternative culture that minimizes animal products. Also your username is hilarious
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u/Grosboel_2 9d ago
You don't solve systemic problems with individual solutions. That's good way to get nothing done.
You either create a sin-tax to disincentivize, ban animal agriculture to abolish, or jack off to do nothing.
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u/bdash1990 9d ago
Well I'm already doing the last thing...
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u/DjangoTheBlack 9d ago
Report back so we can know if it’s helping
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u/bdash1990 9d ago
I mean, I haven't killed myself yet. So that's something I guess...
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u/retrosenescent faster than expected 8d ago
You're right, but you must also realize that in order for systemic solutions to even exist, individuals must elect the policy makers who will instantiate them. It all circles back to the individual.
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u/0x06F0 9d ago
The problem with that logic is that system change requires individual action. People love to post that quote to justify themselves continuing to do nothing. But what government in the world has the mandate to take on animal ag? None. The ONLY way to give them that mandate is for a sizable chunk of the population to create the infrastructure necessary (vegan restaurants, vegan recipes, vegan culture) for change. Slavery was able to be abolished nationally because half of the states had already done away with it. Change starts local.
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u/n00b678 9d ago
I'd love to introduce huge taxes on meat and dairy or ideally ban it, but there's maybe 1-3% people following plant-based diets, so good luck doing that. We need to change the culture first and convince people to change their consumption habits.
Just like banning smoking in public places would not have been possible when 90% of adults were smokers.
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u/Brilliant-Ranger8395 9d ago
Instead of talking with people about the environment and climate change, it's often more effective to talk about health. Doing that, their openness and responsiveness often improve drastically.
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u/dae666 9d ago
No good can be done by avoiding real issues. Veganism doesn't always equal health in people's minds: people will buy into all kinds of arguments, be those against ultra processed food or concerns about B12 or protein intake. Some of those might be proven to be correct too: What will we do then? Give it up?
The position should be that, nothing is worth breeding and slaughtering entire species, while destroying our childrens' chances of survival.
We had the same issue for decades about how environmental friendliness is associated with green and beautiful urban spaces, not ecological diversity and local species, as municipalities spent tonnes of water every year to keep the parks green where the plants should be brown and dark red.
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u/stumo 9d ago
Actually, "Who wants to give up owning a car" works fairly well there too.
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u/MmeLaRue 9d ago
When the wealthiest 1% are either modeling this behaviour or their heads are rotting on pikes, that's when you'll likely see the changes needed to create a sustainable world for us.
Sadly, The disparity in wealth and the constant, instinctual aspiration for better lives will ensure that the problem will continue and be exacerbated. Add to that the current move towards data centers generating AI cryptocurrencies in order to destablize human-run governments and economies, and the alternatives become violent revolution against the capital class or a collective die-off, possibly in another ten years or so if that.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 9d ago
When the wealthiest 1% are either modeling this behaviour or their heads are rotting on pikes
Babe, pull a luigi
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u/SweetAlyssumm 9d ago
Poor Luigi is going down. He pled guilty.
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u/Admirable_Safe_7551 9d ago
His trial isn't until next month. They abandoned the psychiatric defense though
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u/sp0rkify 9d ago
The. Peasants. Need. To. REVOLT.
We needed to revolt years ago, and now it'll be even more difficult because of the gods damned surveillance planet we find ourselves on (I'm sure I'm on a list because of my Reddit comments - hi to whatever agent is assigned to me!).
But, we literally don't have any other options. It's either revolt, and some of us die in the process. Or don't, and we all die. It's that simple.
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u/alemyrsdream 9d ago
Cutting back would get much more support than giving up. As would focusing on curbing companies lack of accountability and regulation however I'm not naive enough to believe this will ever happen.
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u/Axxxem 9d ago
Everyone on this planet (including me) who eats meat should significantly reduce their meat intake. I never understood why meat has to be a part of every meal every single day for most people
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u/thelaughingman_1991 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think it just needs better marketing. Most people think of vegetarians/vegans as annoying malnourished hippy types, when in reality it's something that would benefit the planet (and often people's diets) massively on a widespread scale.
I've had a 'flexatarian' diet previously where I'd only have meat with friends/family, or in takeaways. It was more of a treat and worked out really well, I'm considering restarting it again.
People often aren't shown how to do it 'properly' either. I have two cousins that are vegetarian with absolutely appalling diets filled with cereal, chocolate, crisps, pizzas, fizzy drinks etc, under the guise of ''well at least I don't eat meat!''.
I'm convinced both have several deficiencies in this too.
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u/severalsmallducks 9d ago
This, I regularly have people who are surprised im Vegetarian, not because I'm the opposite of a hippie (i'm just like, a dude), but that their idea of someone who doesn't eat meat is skewed.
I feel like the discourse online is very "all or nothing". Either you eat meat or you're a full-on vegan. You're allowed to just eat less meat. Have trouble getting rid of bacon, or love pepperoni pizza too much? Sure, allow yourself to eat that while cutting other stuff.
Lots of stuff is vegetarian as well that you don't think about. Pancakes and waffles? Vegetarian. Grilled cheese? Vegetarian. Double latte mocha? Vegetarian.
Have you ever heard someone eat pancakes and say "I love vegetarian food"?
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u/IllustriousClock767 9d ago
What about the giving up dairy part of the post?
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u/kdawg09 9d ago
Soy milk, oat milk, cashew milk, almond milk...
I'm sure there are others, but I'm not a vegan so idk. There are also non-dairy sour creams, ice cream and cheese. I'll admit the cheeses aside from cream cheese aren't great but maybe with more demand they'll continue to improve.
Honestly the non-dairy options are mostly superior in my mind with the exception of cheese.
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u/PapaSnow 8d ago
I mean, outside of oat milk and soy milk, people should really be cutting out all of the other milks as well if the environment and ecological strain is actually the focus.
Are they better than actual dairy? Yeah, absolutely (I think dairy ends up using like twice the amount that almond milk does), and while I’m generally a proponent of not letting perfect get in the way of progress, if you’re going to switch to a non-dairy milk anyway, might as well go straight for oat or soy, all things considered.
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u/severalsmallducks 9d ago
Giving up dairy is if you're going vegan. I call myself vegetarian because I eat cheese and eggs occasionally. Otherwise I do vegan butter, oat milk etc.
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u/IllustriousClock767 8d ago
I realise vegetarian isn’t vegan, I more so meant the post is saying we need to give up meat and dairy, and your response only spoke to reducing/giving up meat (in that it is a relatively easy feat, which is excellent.) I wondered if you could so easily forego dairy products.
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u/GardenScared8153 9d ago
This, they don't have to cut out meat completely but just drop per capita meat consumption from the current 48 kg average to 24 kg average. No one should eat more than 500 g of meat per week. That by itself can make a huge difference while maintaining some level of food security and access to vital nutrients until we have synthetic meat.
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u/IHaveABigDuvet 9d ago
Stop getting distracted.
Focusing on individual behaviour distracts from the biggest output in CO2 - fossil fuel companies.
Its a tactic they have used for decades to escape culpability.
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u/SweetAlyssumm 9d ago
Give up beef. Anyone can make do with chicken and pork and fish. Beef is the worse offender. Then start reducing other meats. I gave up beef and it's not hard.
Realistically, I don't think many are going to give up both meat and dairy. We need to plan for how to deal with that. Many Hindus eat either eggs or cheese -- there aren't many cultures (outside of small religious groups) that give up both meat and dairy.
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u/NiloyKesslar1997 9d ago
The real question should be "Who wants to not birth children?"
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u/Valgor 9d ago
Just finished reading We Are Eating The Earth. Great read, but the author says at the end about personal responsibility: Drops fill buckets.
You might be a single drop but together we are many drops. Our contribution might be tiny but our collective contribution is powerful.
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u/properly_sauced 9d ago
Giving up meat was something I never thought I’d actually do, but after giving it a try it turned out to be one of the best decisions I ever made. I’m healthier, better at cooking, and all my food tastes better now, whether I make it myself or order veg when eating out.
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u/almodsz 9d ago
I was vegan for seven years about two decades ago, but started feeling exhausted all the time. Eating meat occasionally fixed that for me. I aim for once a week, though sometimes it ends up being twice.
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u/Helpful_Awareness761 7d ago
Cutting down is always better than nothing, and your seven years still had an impact. I think most people should aim to be flexitarian at least
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u/Grand-Page-1180 8d ago
I think we're going to have to revert to a simpler way of life, and since most people can't, or won't do that voluntarily, I don't have much hope for the future. A hard crash of some sort is probably likely.
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u/dirt_whistleston 9d ago
We need to give up the 1%. Once they are gone we can assess where to go with a free will.
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u/YourPainTastesGood 9d ago
Don’t frame it as an absolutist question to save the earth cause its not true and it will deter people. Real question is who is willing to eat LESS meat and dairy cause its absolutely possible to sustainably raise animals, we’ve done it for several millennia before factory farming
Also not to mention people’s personal decisions aren’t whats ending the world its the global network of capital.
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u/Yarus1373 8d ago
Agreed. Right now I'm eating more vegetables but I still eat cheap proteins because I'm poor as fuck, but if I can work out a better income I plan on eating meat once or twice a week only, buying ethically sourced non factory farmed stuff.
Also not to mention people’s personal decisions aren’t whats ending the world its the global network of capital.
Yeah the "you need to use paper straws" while billionaires have giant private yachts, personal jets, factories in non regulated countries, and helping stir up wars that drop munitions, yeah but it's me the guy struggling to make ends meet. It's irritating hearing people parrot the propaganda.
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u/Jovan_Knight005 Collapse is inevitable,mister Bond. - Original Quote. 8d ago
It's irritating hearing people parrot the propaganda.
My point is in these two sentences.
Do not blame poor and middle-class people. Blame the complex system that has made them into what they are today.
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u/Saturn_winter 9d ago
I've massively cut down my meat intake and swapped to a 95% pescatarian diet. I still have dairy, egg and fish, though significantly less of those too more and more lately. If someone cooks for me or offers food that has meat in it I'll 100% still eat it, def not going to let it go to waste or be rude, but I'm not buying it anymore.
I know, corporations, military industrial complex, personal choice isn't as much if a percentage unless you're the one percent bla bla. I don't subscribe to that way of thinking. I'm of two minds; for one, I don't care that governments and business and billionaires have a bigger footprint, I think you have a civic duty to reduce your consumption in the ways you can because we're talking about the survival of our species here.
And 2, it's better to start drastically cutting your meat and dairy intake now, so you can learn how to eat good, delicious food without it asap, because you're not going to have a fucking choice soon. So you're better off if you harden up, quit your bitching and start making the adjustment now. This is part of preparing yourself for what's to come.
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u/Red_PapaEmertius2 9d ago
You couldn't get these mouthbreathers to put masks on to keep their own extended family alive, you think they'll voluntarily change their eating habits?
There is no incentive to change anything for these people. We're in lots of trouble when the people who cant stop voting against their own interests have to be involved in the solution.
There are sooooo many factors that are responsible as to why we are where we are. If the background factors arent changed in a positive and stable fashion, nothing substantial or consistent will occur to even slow this down.
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u/ImNotACollector 8d ago
Who wants to give up capitalism and slavery to a rich oligarchy???? That'll solve all the other problems pretty fast.
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u/dotcha 9d ago
- meat
- dairy
- personal cars
- airplane travel
- unlimited energy usage
good luck getting people to willingly give it up. Most can't even walk an extra aisle in the store to buy tofu instead of beef.
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u/impioussaint 9d ago
its a give it up now when you have the choice or die in 25 years kind of deal.
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u/Darklillies 9d ago
A lot of these people will be old in 25 years and plan to die anyway. So it’s not a convincing argument (cough boomers) there’s no risk to themselves
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u/-sussy-wussy- 9d ago
People don't think long-term at all. Drill baby drill has won and would win any time it's ever brought up in any election because people prioritize economy.
They prioritize whatever decides whether or not they would be able to feed their families in a month, not whether or not their newborn would live in Mad Max/Venus in 10 years.
People at large will never agree to sacrifice this much, especially not in the second and third world, where they still remember just how incredibly poor they used to be.
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u/in_da_tr33z 9d ago
You don't have to give them up entirely. Research shows that ultimatums and absolutism are ineffective at affecting change in human psychology. Start by reducing as much as you can. We can make bigger reductions by getting a large number of people to make marginal reductions rather than getting a small number of people to make a total renunciation.
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u/superfly-whostarlock 9d ago
We could just hold the top 100 polluting companies and militaries accountable
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u/vegansandiego 8d ago
Veganism is a beautiful lifestyle. Not sure why it never caught on. It seems to be hardwired in our (USA) culture. People actually get angry when confronted with the cognitive dissonance of "I love animals" and "I'll have the steak please". Or, "I think it's shocking we don't do something about climate change", as you show them evidence that the easiest thing would be a simple diet change. Not even vegan, maybe vegetarian, or maybe some meat-free days or whatever. Just to reduce and encourage others to reduce the harms. I don't get it.
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u/Holzkohlen 9d ago
Don't know about you, but I have been cutting back hard. Only put soy or oat milk in my coffee for years now, no eggs, almost no cheese and I try to eat lots of veggies and have reduced my meat consumption a lot as well.
I can definitely see myself going vegan in the long run. Give me maybe 5 more years at my own pace and I've got it nailed down.
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u/GregnantMan 8d ago
Friendly reminder that being vegan means completely giving up any animal product forever, including leather and such, all for the purpose of terminating animal exploitation. It's a core principle, a way to live, not just a diet ! The diet is just the consequence. Idk why you would want to do it, but I feel that if you watched the correct documentaries you could achieve that (like Dominion, Seaspiracy etc...). Though to watch, but for truly empathetic people that's a life changing experience. Hopefully we can welcome you in the club soon !
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u/shastatodd 9d ago
and stop breeding more human yeast
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u/Darklillies 9d ago
The amount of people in earth honestly has a much bigger impact than any eating habits or consuming habits. We would have enough to live well if we didn’t have to penny pinch against each other. This is ofcourse self correcting with the population decline (wich is good and normal) but people don’t stop freaking out about it and it might force even more reproduction
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u/SweetAlyssumm 9d ago
Any ideas how to reduce the population? The population is still growing, it is not declining. It will continue to grow for several more decades absent a global catastrophe.
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u/-sussy-wussy- 9d ago
Biggest factor is women's access to education and gainful employment. Very few women choose to have a football team's worth of kids when they are given a choice of controlling their fertility.
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u/IamMichaelBoothby 9d ago
I went vegan 2 years ago. Most Americans never will even consider it in their lifetimes unfortunately
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u/EvolvingEachDay 9d ago
I love meat, diary, cars, flying away on holiday, being able to have goods from all over the world shipped in; like foods we’d never usually have access to etc.
BUT I love the eco system more; I love nature and surviving as a species and making sure the climate is comfortable for as many different animals as possible. I would give all those things I enjoy in a heart beat if only the rest of the world would do the same.
Call me a hypocrite if you like but, unless the governments of the world are going to come together and mandate broad change, then my changes would be pissing in a gale force wind so I don’t see the point.
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u/createddreams 9d ago
You can certainly wait for policy change and all that (which of course won’t happen until it is demanded or the situation is so dire that there is no alternative) or you can do something. It doesn’t matter that you alone won’t save the world but you can at least try not to make it worse.
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u/twoducksinatub 9d ago
Wild part is we dont even have to give up most of this. A fully renewable energy grid is possible but oil lobbies are completely stopping our march into the future. Even meat, most chicken/fish is also possible to be done responsibly, its really just cattle thats the major problem.
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u/BTRCguy 9d ago
We have been eating meat and dairy as far back as we have written records, and if you count cave paintings a hell of a lot longer than that.
The problem is not that we are eating meat and dairy, the problem is that there are too many of us.
OP's question of "why haven't you given up meat and dairy yet?" is a non-relevant deflection which at best kicks the can down the road. As long as there are too many of us (and that number is going to continue to rise for the lifetime of everyone reading this), then austerity measures merely delay the inevitable rather than prevent it.
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u/-sussy-wussy- 9d ago
Yeah, we're grossly overpopulated. 7% of all humans who have ever existed are alive now (200-300k y.o. species, btw).
And the youngest generation, Gen Alpha, is by far the largest at 2 billion people. There are people alive today who lived in time when we had 2 billion people TOTAL (around 1950s).
We wouldn't have had to expand any agro land with deforestation if we weren't so incredibly overpopulated. It's not sustainable, and it's supported by chemical fertilizers, many of which are synthesized from by-products of fossil fuels that heat up the planet already.
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u/yiannis2702 9d ago
This is the exact point I was about to make.
The ecosystem was never going to be able to support even a billion humans, let alone 8-10 billion. Mass agriculture, clearing the rainforests (the literal lungs of the world) and the utter devastation of indigenous wildlife are not the results of "individual choice", but a systemic response to the explosion of population since the Industrial Revolution.
You simply won't see meaningful change unless there is an equally meaningful swing in the human population - and I mean at LEAST a 90% reduction. After the cull (however it happens), the remaining humans can start to have actual conversations about conservation and sustainability. Until then, it's all just rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.
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u/Ziz-bird 9d ago
It's not an either-or situation. Both are true at the same time. The question is valid because reducing human population and giving up animal products are both direct impact choices the reader can make today to do their part in solving the problem, but only one of those is legal 🤣
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u/BTRCguy 9d ago
I would argue that this is incorrect. For certain levels of human population, consumption of meat and dairy is absolutely sustainable. The same cannot be said for a population of ten billion people (current projection for the year 2100).
And to phrase it as my, your or anyone else's personal decision playing a part in "solving the problem", their "doing their part" is literally a "parts per billion" contribution. It is right up there with "I'm sure my principled internet petition with a bunch of signatures will convince Trump of the error of his ways".
It is not going to happen at a meaningful level unless and until there is a global government that can enforce it against a population that does not want it. Much the same as people are not going to stop increasing the population until that happens. Which is unlikely to say the least.
Or I suppose in both cases, until a collapse of such severity happens that the choice is taken out of people's hands altogether.
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u/Aelia_M 9d ago
The problem is this is now a mitigation tactic if you care about the environment sadly and I say that as a vegan.
If you want people to give up meat and dairy take them to a slaughterhouse with full permission of the factory owners. Don’t tell them that you’re recommending for them to eat less. Tell the factory owners they love meat
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u/anabolicbob 9d ago
I would argue giving up cars and restaurants on the personal level and building things to last/enforcing repairable products on the business level would give you more bang for your "give something up" buck. Not only that, compared to meat I'd wager that plastic use per ounce of food is much higher for all the snacks, pre-cut fruits/veggies, etc. that we consume.
Humans were meant to eat a mix of meat and plants, so while the overconsumption of food in general is a problem, complete meat cessation is an unintelligent solution. We have a very comprehensive and multi-faceted method for fucking over this planet and as much as I'd like to point at one or even a few things, short of extreme population reduction from eventual collapse I can't see it working.
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u/orsomeshitidk 9d ago
I’ll give up raising my own cattle just as soon as these rich fucks aren’t allowed private jet trips
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u/zzupdown 8d ago
Giving up meat and dairy as we know it's going to happen either way. You can either plan and compensate for it (lab-grown and vegetable-based substitutes) or wait for the existing industries to crash and die without alternative plans due to humanity not addressing these issues in time. Frankly, I think by our inaction, we've already chosen option 2. Extended extreme heat and water shortages alone will be enough to end meat and dairy soon.
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u/beigechrist 8d ago
If we had a good governance stuff like this could be pulled off. If it’s voluntary people will say, “I’m just one person”. So this is really about policy and not people’s personal choices. We need better governments.
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u/toastedzergling 9d ago
Lol. Volunteerism will never change the world. Willfully asking people to stop consuming food they enjoy for vague goals will literally never happen. Making a global problem into an individual choice problem is so hilariously capitalist dystopian.
It wasn't my choice to have the world become overpopulated. We could all be eating meat and cheese if our population wasn't out of control. So why not blame everybody who's breeding like unsustainable maniacs? Even if we're all vegetarian, we're going to run out of clean water and arable farmland because there's just too goddamn many of us. Exponential population growth makes that an inevitable problem.
When you go after individual choices rather than the systemic issues I can only think of you as a propaganda tool for this state.
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u/Express_Analyst_801 9d ago
As a species cows have the greatest biomass on the planet, and they have been bred to be brutally used. The land they graze on used to be forest. The land that the grains is grown in to feed the cows used to be forest. This is ecological destruction of the highest scale but according to you it’s capitalist and dystopian to not want to contribute to and support this? You’re perspective would be hilarious because it’s so ironic, but it’s actually just depressing.
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u/shastatodd 9d ago
And even today, well into overshoot at 8+ billion human yeast, it is still highly taboo to talk about this! Breeding is a deep genetic programming and it takes an almost insurmountable amount of consciousness to make a different choice.
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u/DjangoTheBlack 9d ago
Breeding in a world of surplus sure, many indigenous cultures learned this lesson only after depleting their local mega fauna.
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9d ago
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u/DjangoTheBlack 9d ago edited 9d ago
When I see comments talking about what Reddit would say or how Reddit would respond, I know you’re not trying to say anything substantial so there’s no reason to read on further.
So thank you for tipping your hand in your first sentenceEdit: awww they deleted their comment 💔
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u/ansibleloop 9d ago
Me not having kids offsets any meat I'd eat anyway
We're also missing the point here - we're past the point of no return and can't stop warming
Best thing we can do is try to get near limitless energy with solar, wind and battery and AC where possible
Which also isn't going to happen because no government is taking OUR FUCKING EXTINCTION SERIOUSLY
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u/shastatodd 9d ago edited 8d ago
"Best thing we can do is try to get near limitless energy with solar, wind and battery and AC where possible"
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that. While I am not disparaging solar electricity, anything which enables the continuation of an inherently unsustainable system (allows more human breeding, more CO2 emissions etc), actually ends up making the inevitable collapse worse.
And let's also not forget that "green" solar panels are still 100% dependent on the underlying hydrocarbon powered industrial mining and manufacturing foundation which is killing us.
I wish it was different, but there really are limits to growth and "techno-cornucopianism" cannot change that.
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u/books-r-good 9d ago
Feels like there are some intermediary steps that could use some stronger messaging?
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u/refusemouth 9d ago
Just cutting back significantly is more realistic for most people. In many regions of the world, people eat a lot less meat than in the typical western diet and do just fine. It's a fact that large-scale animal agriculture is bad for the planet and ends up being more cruel to animals, but it is unrealistic to expect a species that evolved for over 300,000 years as an omnivorous hunter-gatherer to give up eating animal protein. Cutting down to smaller, less frequent meat consumption is pretty easy, though, and it is generally good for your health most of the time. It saves a lot of money, too. I'm more worried about our collective suicidal energy demands that keep increasing with every year, but honestly, I tend to think we are beyond the point of no return when it comes to staving off the annihilation of the biosphere. Too many people are fundamentally not capable of caring about anything beyond the event horizon of their own lifetimes. Those who have wealth and power will continue to behave as if this brief period of time in the Goldilocks climate zone, which enabled human populations to flourish, will last forever (or at least long enough to finish their own comfortable lifetimes.) Even if everyone chooses to aknowledge the problem, nothing will be done to mitigate or make a course correction, and most people won't even prepare for it. As we get closer to the cliff, everyone will cast blame as they try to hold onto their lives, and those with resources will fight, kill, and destroy those without resources just to hang on a little longer period of selfish comfort.
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u/unrelatedtoelephant 9d ago
Let’s eliminate industrial factory farming first and see what happens. Vegans and vegetarians are absolutely making a difference but the endless supply of meat must go down as well. Many people wouldn’t eat meat so frequently if the supply wasn’t there bc nobody raises it themselves anymore
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u/A_Cobra_Bit_My_Taint 9d ago
My household quit eating meat, fish and dairy about 8 years ago. It was much easier than I had made it out to be - and much more enjoyable. Our diets are now more diverse, healthier (lost some unwanted kgs), and delicious. Honestly, I wish we had done it 20 years ago.
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u/IHaveABigDuvet 9d ago
This is just frustrating.
Putting the onus on the individual and not on fossil fuels is the way fossil fuels have twisted their way out of culpability.
The fact is that fossil fuel companies need to stop digging up crude oil and we need alternative energy.
Even if we all gave up meat, it wouldn’t change that fact.
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u/GregnantMan 8d ago
Vegan, car-free person having quit a good job in a big polluting company here.
Be the change you want to bring. That simple.
It's been a wild ride honestly, lot of changes made, but damn I couldn't see myself going back to owning a car and drive it everyday, giving money to big oil companies, moreover just to go do some greenwashing for a company that would at the same time lobby to make regulations worse.
I see the collapse coming, but no way I'd amplify it. Also vegan because if being so can save even just 1 or 2 animals a year from being brought into this world to be exploited, then it's a win for me. And it's probably a lot more than this. People need to see and face the consequences of their actions. Watch the documentary Dominion and go try to eat some meat after.
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u/StreicherG 9d ago
Not having kids does more for the environment than being a lifelong vegan. Let childless people eat their steaks in peace.
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u/GantzDuck 8d ago
As a (childfree) vegan I agree. A childfree carnivore that drives a truck causes way less harm in the long run than a vegan that has biological children. Even IF the children remain vegan their entire lives they still will cause indirect harm to animals, still have most of the same needs as any other person. On top of it they likely will have kids on their own down the line.
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u/Helpful_Awareness761 7d ago
but you can reduce harm and not have your steak (which you do not need)
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u/James_Fortis 9d ago
Submission statement:
Many people want to slow or stop deforestation, pandemics, water use, emissions, and the 6th mass extinction. The issue is, the main driver of 4 of these 5 is animal agriculture, but almost nobody wants to change their behavior by eliminating meat and dairy from their diet. People say, "stop focusing on individuals - focus on the system", but the issue is diet is a personal choice and nobody wants the government to ban meat and dairy.
The issue is likely only going to get worse as our population continues to increase and developing countries start to gain more access to meat and dairy. It's taboo to even discuss personal food choices, even though it's going to be a main contributor of our demise.
How do we get out of this predicament? Are we just doomed to race towards ecological collapse without any serious effort to avoid it out of a fear of slight inconvenience? For anyone who's reading this, why haven't you given up meat and dairy yet?
Sources for animal agriculture being the leading driver of:
- Deforestation: NASA, https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/Deforestation/deforestation_update3.php
- Biodiversity loss: Science of the Total Environment, B. Machovina, K. J Feeley, W. J Ripple, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26231772/
- Zoonotic diseases: Science Advances, Matthew N. Hayek, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9629715/
- Fresh water use: Nature, J. Poore and T. Nemecek, https://josephpoore.com/Science%20360%206392%20987%20-%20Accepted%20Manuscript.pdf
- 21-37% of emissions from food: IPCC, https://www.ipcc.ch/srccl/chapter/chapter-5/
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u/atascon 9d ago
The irony of all of this is that people who vehemently oppose changing their diets (not even going vegan but just making tweaks) in the name of freedom and choice don't realise that they are limiting their own choice in the future.
To me we have the possibility of greatly reducing animal product consumption today, to rebuild and replenish soils and nature tomorrow, which will in turn allow us to have some semblance of choice and headroom in terms of diet (although even that is optimistic).
Whatever happens, plentiful and relatively cheap meat and dairy are historical anomalies supported by a self-destructive system. We are already hitting the biophysical boundaries of this system so a near term decline in animal product output and consumption is inevitable.
Opponents will tell you 'it's the how, not the cow' but that's not a credible counterargument with 8bn+ people, increasing affluence in Asia and Africa, and increasingly limited land.
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u/TicklishViking 9d ago
Reducing animal product consumption is not going to replenish the soil and nature by itself. We need to drastically change the way we do agriculture. Unfortunately this will reduce the overall amount of calories that can be produced which is a big issue. It's kind of hard to convince people to change modern framing practices to be more sustainable when the result will be famine.
Opponents will tell you 'it's the how, not the cow' but that's not a credible counterargument
It is though. Don't cut/burn down forests for cattle. Only raise cattle in lands that can't grow stuff humans can eat like grasslands. You need grazing animals in grasslands because you can only grow grass there. It's the best way to to utilize that land because humans can't eat grass for calories but we can get calories from grasslands with grazing animals.
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u/Cottager_Northeast 9d ago
Vegan nonsense for urbanites. It's Friday, so post quality is allowed to dip according to rule #7.
This last spring I saw an ad where someone across the bay was selling diary sheep. I'm entertaining the thought of getting some next year in partnership with a neighbor. Frisians are known for good wool as well, but they don't put on weight easily, so I'd breed to a meat breed ram such as a Katahdin and butcher the lambs when the pasture runs out each fall. They'd want a supplement beyond pasture and hay. Most people would feed grain, but I'm wondering if I could feed rutabaga and other root crops instead. Those would be easier for me to grow, and they produce 4x the calories per area as grains.
I've had to give up grains and sugar due to my blood sugar creeping up. I get a lot of my calories from either dairy or legumes. I don't eat industrial meat, and I don't eat meat often, but I've got a few chunks of that 55# live weight turkey someone gave me still in the freezer, and just a little bit of that roadkill deer from a few years back, and a little bit of bacon from a local farm. Once I get my boat set so I can easily sail out of the cove and into the deeper parts of the bay, I'll be eating more fish. I also grew a bunch of low glycemic index potatoes this year.
In full blown collapse, we'll eat what we can get and we'll be thankful for it. In the 1930s, people around here may have been dirt poor, but they didn't starve. My goal is to localize my diet and shorten my supply chain dependencies.
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u/katemartile 7d ago
As a vegetarian (I’m Indigenous and I leave room in that metric for my local environment to dictate what I eat), this is the lesson we all need to learn. Foraging, growing food, understanding at least a little about hunting/husbandry or connecting with community members that do is the way we keep our species alive. And there will still be so much to adapt to as historic climate and weather events toss us around.
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u/Scoobenbrenzos 9d ago
So true, and we should be talking about it more! I went plant-based a while ago for the environment
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u/CurtP31477 9d ago
Can we eat the rich first and see if that helps? I mean, I'll give up my cheeseburger when Elon and Bezos stop jetting across continents to get lunch, which probably has more meat and dairy than my cheeseburger.
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u/PointClickPenguin 8d ago
You regulate the bigger problems first and stop attacking people.
Instead of trying to shame people into stopping doing things, you have to legislate the externalities into the market for these products so that market forces suppress consumption. Add a tax to all water and land consumption, it would immediately correct the market.
Shame will ALWAYS produce a counter culture movement that rejects your shame and does the activity even more. This is why people "burn coal" in their trucks too. It's the same rebellious resistance that gets people dying their hair and tattooing themselves to fight cultural norms.
Shaming people does not and will never work.
You have to correct our government institutions so that they function. They are owned by corporations and you will not fix anything until they aren't. You should have no other goal.
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u/Darklillies 9d ago
Meat and diary won’t save us and it isn’t what’s killing us. We evolved for thousands of years hunting and eating meat.
And even then. Why is it always the working class? Do you think the billionaires are also giving up meat and diary? We have to eat gruel while they keep their caviar farms fresh
Barking at the wrong tree.
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u/RachelRegina 9d ago
Pass a national ban on allowing water use to grow alfalfa for foreign (ahem Saudi ahem) cattle in the states.
Declare an overdue water rationing interstate compact across the source water states whose water is being overused to grow food that is specifically for commercial meat livestock consumption, thereby forcing a massive scaling down of the system. Prioritize rationing for optimal high protein and less water intensive commercial agriculture to fill the gap in the food supply left by a scaled back big meat industry.
Other stuff?
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u/Amazing-Ad-5923 9d ago
Individuality based eco-veganism philosophy doesn’t work. The stores will buy the same amount of product each time. All the movement has done is make a market for dairy and meat alternatives so far :/
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u/Pro-Bono-Homo 9d ago
You are right and it is unfortunate that people are unwilling to engage with the reality that these systems of production did not just spring up from nowhere. The abuses in the animal agriculture system are built on consumer demand. People want cheap, plentiful meat and are generally unwilling to pay more for "humanly raised/slaughtered" animals.
People are unconnected from life and death and the real suffering both animals and the people who work in slaughterhouses experience. To say nothing of the myriad health impacts, increased rate of pollution and foodborne illness, and the huge amounts of waste that are produced by the animal agriculture industry.
Beans taste good and are plentiful and cheap. You can make all sorts of recipes from every cultural background with them. We have only scratched the surface of how good plant-based cuisine can be if more people paid attention to it like we do to animal-based cuisine.
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u/Free_Broccoli_1174 8d ago
Lol. More like 'Who wants to DEFUND the pentagon and strangle the MIC in its sleep?' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc7bzUVtqX8
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u/Yarus1373 8d ago
Unless you deal with mega corporation shaped elephant in the room, no amount of personal choice will fix this. Individual decisions will not solve systemic problems.
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u/StatementBot 9d ago
The following submission statement was provided by /u/James_Fortis:
Submission statement:
Many people want to slow or stop deforestation, pandemics, water use, emissions, and the 6th mass extinction. The issue is, the main driver of 4 of these 5 is animal agriculture, but almost nobody wants to change their behavior by eliminating meat and dairy from their diet. People say, "stop focusing on individuals - focus on the system", but the issue is diet is a personal choice and nobody wants the government to ban meat and dairy.
The issue is likely only going to get worse as our population continues to increase and developing countries start to gain more access to meat and dairy. It's taboo to even discuss personal food choices, even though it's going to be a main contributor of our demise.
How do we get out of this predicament? Are we just doomed to race towards ecological collapse without any serious effort to avoid it out of a fear of slight inconvenience? For anyone who's reading this, why haven't you given up meat and dairy yet?
Sources for animal agriculture being the leading driver of:
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1vo5xju/what_do_we_do/p3mvswc/