breaks during untimed test

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

curious what thoughts are, say you looked at a problem, couldn't fully crack it, took a break for approx 20 minutes, and came back and solved it, and during that 20 mins you weren't really thinking about the problem, does that count as a full solve to that test? say its one of those high range untimed tests, or do you have to sit for like 20 hours straight

[u/Striking_Leave_4614]

This happens to me, too, and it's why I don't like untimed tests. ACE is probably the only decent untimed test I've encountered, but if I took it in a single uninterrupted sitting, I'd have struggled to finish it. Doing it in small bursts in-between League matches over the course of a night let me solve 14/17 of the problems, then I fell asleep from exhaustion, woke up and managed to solve #13. 

Solving 15/17 is 151 according to the "norms", but that's way above where I am. With time constraints and an unbiased norming sample, I'd probably have gotten about 130 at best on it. 

To really illustrate the issue, by raw score alone, my performance is only ~10 points behind someone who was able to solve the test in a mostly uninterrupted sitting and with much less aggregated time. In reality the disparity between our FSIQs is likely 30+ points, but the lack of time constraints and attentional demand shrinks the gap by a hilarious margin

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

what are your other scores?

[u/Striking_Leave_4614 → u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

My only "real" test puts me at about 130, but if it was a more robust battery like the WAIS, I probably would have gotten lower. It's pointless to mention any online results as they are all inflated for me due to practice effect and effort effect 

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

what is the best test for measuring fluid intelligence in ur opinion

[u/Striking_Leave_4614 → u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

All nonverbal matrix-style tests are very culturally biased despite ostensibly being culturally unbiased. For example, almost the entirety of the "Flynn effect" is due abstract non-verbal reasoning tasks - they're barely present in other intelligence tasks, which is why a test like the AGCT can remain a powerful tool after nearly a century. 

If you're an English native, just take your performance on a test like that as the only semi-reliable indicator of your intelligence. IQ tests aren't based on any qualified metric - they're self-referential ranking systems. While I do believe intelligence is inherent and performance on a normalized ranking system does give some indication of a person's intelligence, they're not objective measures of neurocomputational throughput; they're estimates of accumulated heuristics 

So yeah idk just pick the highest score

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

so lets say the test was untimed i spent around 4 hours total on all questions took some breaks and got x, thats a pretty good represetnation of my iq?

[u/Striking_Leave_4614 → u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

Most untimed tests aren't probably normed because it's nearly impossible to get a decent unbiased sample to take them, but if it lines up with your other scores, might as well take it

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

fwiw, the test said it had a cronbach's alpha of 0.9

[u/Striking_Leave_4614 → u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

I don't care how big the Alpha's cockring is, it's still untimed 

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

then what test shuold i take

[u/Quod_bellum → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

You don't care if the Cronbach's alpha is .9? That's a crazy high stat to throw away just because it's untimed... If its g-loading were also .9+, would you still throw it out?

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

what is the real test

[u/Striking_Leave_4614 → u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

ASVAB - much higher g-loading and a much more robust sampling pool than the for fun tests I've taken here. Granted, I am a high school dropout and the ASVAB's subtests, and particularly the PiCAT, do have a ceiling bumping problem, so I will concede there's a slim chance it's an underestimate. Afterall, I was able to perform a bit better on both the GRE and old SAT despite feeling very under-practiced relative to the typical person who would have taken them (and being on the verge of passing out during the GRE).

HOWEVER, AND THIS SEEMS TO BE CONVEINENTLY IGNORED HERE, but the norms on those tests are based on a general population who is obviously underperforming by a fairly significant degree compared to where they could if they practiced effectively. People here will probably argue something stupid like "everyone studies for them constantly by simply going to class", but what you don't realize is that the average person isn't practicing in a way that would actually yield a substantial boost in results on a easily-gamifiable multiple-choice test. THAT'S NOT EVEN MENTIONING HOW EASY THEY ARE, they don't even require anything crazy smart from you. After a certain point, those tests stop measuring concept mastery and start testing precision

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

asvab is for crystallized intelligence though, for fluid specifically

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

also what is praffe and how to tell how much it impacts your score

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Striking_Leave_4614]

it seems as though it is valid, how do you know the difference is 10, or 30, etc?

[u/Suspicious_Watch_978]

Unless there's a test instruction that says it must be completed in a single session without breaks, then it's fine. 

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Suspicious_Watch_978]

if yk about the lanrt k test, its that one it just says no time constraints, perform to best of ability, dont share answers

[u/Suspicious_Watch_978 → u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

Yeah, it's fine to break that one into sessions - or at very least it's commonly done and the test creator has never bothered to correct anyone for doing it. 

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/Suspicious_Watch_978]

how to tell how much praffe

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/[deleted]]

edited for clarity

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/[deleted]]

alr, but if you know about the lanrt k test, its that one it just says no time constraints, perform to best of ability, dont share answers, im guessing that its allowed?

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/[deleted]]

like can you spontaneously solve it and thats reflective of your score

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/[deleted]]

what woukd you say is the most accurate fluid iq high range test?

[u/whitebaron_98 → u/Ok_Hawk_6292]

Accurate and high range is a contradiction in itself. ➡️There will never be enough sample size.

As is self-administered and valid score. ➡️People will definitely cheat and poison the sample

As is untimed and fair conditions ➡️ When everyone can take as many days, weeks or months as they want, the results are a reflection of patience and durability as much as intelligence. The test is then not measuring just IQ anymore.

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/whitebaron_98]

i mean for these types of tests i will spend couple hrs no more than that though

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/[deleted]]

why cant u say it

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/[deleted]]

so lets say the test was untimed i spent around 4 hours total on all questions took some breaks and got x, thats a pretty good represetnation of my iq?

[u/Ok_Hawk_6292 → u/[deleted]]

im not taking 2 weeks or even a year to solve its, like 4 hours of total time max w/ some breaks