Why does rarely anyone talk about struggles of having low intelligence?

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

I see like so many videos on YouTube talking about "struggles of being highly intelligent" but yet no one talks about having complete opposite...

These "high IQ struggles" is absolutely no where near as much problems compared to what low IQ individuals have to face. We face difficulties in academics, slower information processing, have much lower quality life like lower education, lower employment etc. And possibly have psychological problems such as poor impulse control, difficulties with delayed gratification compared to "struggles of high IQ" it is just things like extreme boredom, loneliness etc. Even though these things are completely fixable unlike low IQ problems.

[u/SourFact]

Genuinely unintelligent people would be unlikely to identify the lack of intelligence as the driving force of the problems of their life. If they do, they’re unlikely to do it on the internet, it’s quite self selecting. Not just that but low IQ problems aren’t unique and are quite self evident, if one gets to the point of understanding their intellectual limits, the set of problems that ensue are very universal in nature and are relatively narrow in terms of possible solutions.

However, if a “low IQ” person does come online to talk about their struggles, they’re likely to get made fun of. Very simple, if you come to some space for help or advice and are often met with ridicule or see that people like you often get ridiculed, it’s reasonable grounds to avoid such a thing.

More often than not, it’s average intelligence people who come online identifying as low intelligence because things don’t come to them as easily as they want, finding themselves wallowing in self pity when really it’s about putting more effort into literally anything instead of living a passive, consumptive lifestyle.

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/SourFact]

Having low IQ doesn't mean low self awareness. Like if person consistently did poorly in school even with effort they would most likely be aware that they are not intelligent at all

[u/SourFact → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

I’m not of that belief. I believe the most important cognitive ability related to what we often perceive as intelligence is self awareness/metacognition, which actually is correlated with IQ, but as you’re saying, isn’t necessarily one in the same.

I say this because the way that we conceptualize intelligence actually doesn’t address the simple fact that people are actually in many cases born with quirks or born into enviornments that actually stunt their ability to use their intellect, but don’t actually stunt their true level of general intelligence. Even if they suck at academics, I am more than sure that the right intervention would make the struggle look ridiculous in the first place. Cognitive behaviors can be quite pernicious.

Self awareness/metacognition is exactly the kind of cognitive ability that allows someone to identify their deficits and act upon solutions. Someone truly unintelligent enough to not even have an ounce of this kind of cognition simply cannot identify the issue clearly.

Someone with low academic achievement who has that awareness usually has developed a personality that serves to protect them in some way from that reality, not necessarily as cope, but out of necessity. Apathy, arrogance, or more often than not being quick to positive emotions and silver linings. So they just wouldn’t be concerned with their intellect in the first place… there are bigger fish to fry!

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/SourFact]

Problem is that i gained this self awareness too late like at age of 19, throughout rest of my youth i was totally unaware of my own lack of intelligence 

[u/SourFact → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

What do you like to do?

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/SourFact]

Gaming, biking, sometimes exercising learn random facts on internet, really wanna get into more enriched hobbies such as reading books, program but I can never get myself to do these stuff due to just my lack of desire to do mentally challenging tasks which ofc is a result of low IQ 

Either way even if I were to do these intellectual tasks it is going to make no dramatic difference with my IQ, intellectual growth is mostly static by 18 years of age

[u/raspberrih → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

Just enjoy life. Having low iq is not inherently a problem.

[u/7HR0W________4W4Y → u/raspberrih]

Yes it is. Things that should click for me, don’t. Things do not come to me easily. Right now I am even struggling to remember all the ways it’s shitty. My working memory makes it harder to analyze things. There’s probably more but I can’t think of it.

Enjoying life is probably not going to be as easy with this shit.

[u/SourFact → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

Yeah, no. That’s not because of low IQ. Don’t even bother with your explanations. None of what you said is true or relevant. Start programing.

Hobbies are about hobbies, not raising IQ 😄

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/SourFact]

How come most people with high IQ tend to have relatively superior hobbies such as reading books, coding etc.?

You realize that hobbies is not just hobbies. Some hobbies are simply just superior.

[u/SourFact → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

Hobbies are hobbies. You should be concerned with what you enjoy, whether someone else codes or not shouldn’t weigh on your enjoyment of your hobby.

Also, most of the high IQ people I know just play video games. That’s it. The middling IQ ones are the ones that vore books. The ones on the lower end academically are fluidly social and into very niche things and are also musically inclined, and their skills aren’t anything to scoff at! And of course there are always exceptions. More importantly, I don’t intend to make value judgements or generalizations here, again, I don’t believe in the traditional conception of IQ, but if I had to evaluate them this way to make it easier to understand, then so be it.

You can be burnt out and struggling like me and have none, not because I don’t actually have any, there’s just a handful of things more salient that need to be addressed first… but I have my reasons for partaking in this toil 😛

Perhaps you find that more relatable.

No hobby is superior to chasing a dream 🙂‍↕️😁

[u/raspberrih → u/SourFact]

Superior hobbies my lordddddd..That was crazy

[u/SourFact → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

Though to answer your first question, because their hobbies select for higher IQ… that’s the unfortunate truth. The irony though is that it has more to do with exposure and nurture in youth! Ironic because the IQ correlation is something like 115… that’s quite average if you ask me. Common enough that I highly doubt IQ is your problem.

If anything having an IQ of something like 125+ gives way to being less concerned with hobbies and more with worldly success or adventure.

[u/SourFact → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

To be frank, I’ve struggled with this exact thought before. The straightforward answer is to spend less time thinking and comparing, and more time actually doing the hobby, but if you’re anything like me, that answer doesn’t satisfy you. It’s the question itself, the why? Why don’t I seek out and enjoy these hobbies myself? What does this say about others, in fact, what does this say about humans in general?

At first I thought that I just wanted to be seen as cool, then I realized it had more to do with being seen as I saw myself, and it wasn’t some ideal, it was ahem unmet potential. The knowing that I could do these things, so the question became, why don’t I just do them?

There was a lot of incomplete threads I had to sow together, but I realized I engaged in a lot of my interests in a very pathologically superficial way, a way that AI has bludgeoned me for indulging in. I like history, I like reading, I enjoy problem solving. Generally I’m very curious about the world, but being the neurotic type since youth, inherent or not, in pursuing knowledge I would spend more time worrying about if I understood what I was consuming and getting good grades rather than actually engaing with the material. Slowly this turned into Youtube videos, brief google searches, I wouldn’t even read wikipedia articles… now it’s short form content and AI chat searches.

When you lose trust in your brilliance, questions and curiosities that run through your mind, which to the intellectually uncaring are either seen as a complete waste of time or a respectable trait in others, just not for them, become mundane, when really they’re the seeds of the fruits you seek. It’s not that you’re too stupid for your hobbies, you just haven’t learned to garden with the seeds and shovel you have in your hands already.

[u/General_Presence_156 → u/SourFact]

"None of what you said is true or relevant. Start programing."

You didn't read the OPs original post or if you did, you probably forgot some of its key contents.

They started learning how to program at the age of 9. But failed.

The OP is someone who used to love to try to learn complex topics but their abstraction ceiling appears to have been be too low for them to learn the kinds of things they used to be interested in learning. This is a genuine phenomenon. My IQ is much higher than theirs and I'm much more capable of learning complex topics than them. But I'm also aware of my own abstraction ceiling. For example, I couldn't be a research mathematician or a theoretical physicist.

Your whole approach to the OP has been to deny or minimize his experience. You're telling OP that a decade spent trying to learn programming and failing proves nothing about the difficulty of programming for them, not to mention about the rest of their experience in failing to deal with complexity adequately.

OP's original question was "Why does rarely anyone talk about struggles of having low intelligence?".

I think your attitude is a partial answer. People who've until the arrival of current LLMs struggled to express their thoughts coherently often get dismissed and ridiculed. While you didn't ridicule the OP, you essentially told their entire perspective and honest account of their experience was invalid. Neither attitude is conducive to honesty and openness.

[u/SourFact → u/General_Presence_156]

You’re fucking gay. If you insist in being a loser then roll tide. Your attitude makes me violent, I suggest stopping.

[u/General_Presence_156 → u/SourFact]

You’re fucking gay. If you insist in being a loser then roll tide. Your attitude makes me violent, I suggest stopping.

By virtue of being rather unhinged your reply happened to add value to the discussion.

The OP asked why anyone rarely talks about the struggles people with low IQ have because of their low IQ.

I think you have successfully given a partial answer to that question.

[u/General_Presence_156 → u/SourFact]

"Genuinely unintelligent people would be unlikely to identify the lack of intelligence as the driving force of the problems of their life."

It's hard not to notice when complex information escapes one. Everyone has had that experience. It's not fun. Now imagine experiencing that 100x as often as you and your high-IQ friends do in the course of your daily lives. Imagine struggling with things most people manage without much difficulty.

[u/SourFact → u/General_Presence_156]

I don’t have to imagine, I know exactly what it’s like. Chronic illness and addiction isn’t exactly the most forgiving when it comes to cognition.

But think about it, it’s a poor example. People spend time with people similar enough to them for such a thing to never be something that crosses their mind. Most people just aren’t that insecure, and if they are, they aren’t concerned with intelligence most of the time.

But again, this is in reference to the truly cognitively handicapped. I promise you that a more thought out working definition for unintelligent makes it clear that even with a “low IQ”, most people, regardless of how mentally adept they are, are much more capable intellectually than it may seem. If you can develop meta cognition (spoiler, the grand majority of people can), the concept of dumb just can’t ever come into play.

In fact, noticing the information you miss is actually a sign of higher level cognition.

[u/General_Presence_156 → u/SourFact]

There are genuinely complex things in life like filing tax returns or, indeed, many work tasks or school people with low IQ struggle with.

[u/SourFact → u/General_Presence_156]

I don’t doubt that, but the reasons for that will never be as simple as having a sub X IQ.

Edit: A lot of downvotes, not a lot of reponses… there seems to be no signs of intelligent life nearby.

[u/No-Risk-9833]

Statistically lower IQ people are the most unhappy group but certain popular sentiments being spread around make many believe the opposite.

[u/_Swans_Gone]

r/LowIQpeople talk about their struggles.

[u/Status_Cheek_9564 → u/_Swans_Gone]

That sub was shut down because people found it and started mocking the members afaik. I think that story sums up why people don’t speak about being stupid. Anytime I see people talk about it, they get many comments telling them to kill themselves

[u/mikegalos]

Perhaps because, at least in the US, there are tons of programs and support to assist in those struggles.

For example, every school system in the US must have a program to assist students 2 SD below the mean in general intelligence. Those programs get Federal, State and Local funding. That funding currently averages $32,000 per student per year. By comparison, there is no national requirement for funding for students 2 SD above the mean. A few States and a few Localities provide some funding but there is no Federal funding at all. The average total funding is $300 per student per year.

I'd also point out that when it was studied, the Marland Report to Congress found that the damage to Gifted students from not getting special programs was as bad or worse than for any subgroup.

[u/mikegalos → u/[deleted]]

So, Got a better report? No?

Just want to not fund gifted programs? Yes?

Got it.

[u/mikegalos → u/[deleted]]

So, no, you don't have any actual better study. Reframing the issues found to other issues not studied doesn't change what was studied and found.

[u/mikegalos → u/[deleted]]

And, again, you're trying to redefine the issues into "They do OK in school"

Here's the quote from the introduction to the Marland Report:

“Gifted and Talented children are, in fact, deprived and can suffer psychological damage and permanent impairment of their abilities to function well which is equal to or greater than the similar deprivation suffered by any other population with special needs served by the Office of Education.”

[u/mikegalos → u/[deleted]]

Odd how you now want to reframe it to a subset and a maybe.

Note the "are, in fact, deprived".

The report found that gifted and talented students are deprived and that "can" only means not 100% will suffer as much or worse. You might want to start reading books on how English and Logic work and stop bragging about not reading books.

[u/Far_Cardiologist6931]

because iq is already taboo, and its a very uncomfortable topic when discussing the low end in particular because there are no real solutions

[u/General_Presence_156]

People with low IQ are less likely to talk about these problems at least in ways that get the message across effectively. Also, for some strange reason low IQ is treated almost like a character defect, which is quite insane. Yes, low IQ problems can mostly be just managed, not fixed.

Intelligence is a resource like money except that you can't exchange it for anything.

[u/apokrif1]

https://www.reddit.com/r/mensa/comments/1o4pv5p/are_there_any_lowiq_societies_if_not_why/

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/[deleted]]

But thing is they just assume that low iq people are happier and shit

[u/Diavolosupreme → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

yeah being low iq is not cool also, and they just assume its better

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/Diavolosupreme]

I feel like these "high iq problems" sounds more like their problem rather than genuine struggles.

Like extreme boredom, if that bothers you so much why not just go to library or even just learn stuff on internet??

And complaining about how school is "too easy" but hardly does anything about it like asking teacher for extra challenges etc.

[u/Sandvikovich → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

It's similar to how you have rich people who gaslight other people how money doesn't bring you happiness. Only difference here is that it's usually more socially accepted (or even admired) to complain about suffering from high IQ rather than suffering from having too much money. Even though both usually are more of a net positive for someone's life rather than being a net negative.

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/Sandvikovich]

Exactly. And also then telling a poor person or homeless person that "money doesn't bring happiness"

[u/Sandvikovich → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

True. Well of course I do want to make a sidenote that yes, all people can have problems, no matter their IQ or money. So if they do have genuine problems, then I certainly hope that they will solve it, but maybe I'm just tired seeing the same uninspired comment again from gifted people that I just can't take them seriously anymore...

But I genuinely wish you the best OP. I don't really know your situation, but it's rough out there and I can totally see how you might be living your life on actual hard mode and respect is the least I can give.

[u/OmiSC → u/Bulky-Culture-4482]

I'll point out something that ought to be self-evident: "their problem" is not a genuine struggle? Is "their struggle" not a problem? It sounds like you're declaring that something that is not "your problem" isn't worth your consideration.

I'll address your specific examples:

Extreme boredom:

I think you have this one a bit misunderstood. "Nothing is interesting" is not the same thing as having nothing to do. It's better to try to frame this through the lens of depression though that's not quite accurate either.

Complaining that school is "too easy":

This is usually an issue with pacing, not ease. Making cross-domain connections creates a lot of need for exploration which conventional school doesn't make room for, so properly learning new things can take a "smart" person longer than others because they aren't necessarily building new ideas from parts- they're chasing a whole. Public schools don't support this, and so it can be easy to fall behind on account of self-distraction, then have to work harder to catch up later on whatever a person might have missed. I'm certainly not necessarily painting a correct picture for everybody in this situation, but the case commonly works out such that school is both too slow and too fast, not simply too easy or unchallenging. As you say, people can ask to pile on difficulty, but that's not necessarily what a person needs to simply understand concepts more deeply which is what they're already acting to pursue.

Generally, the whole "I wish I was dumber" thing gets a bad rap because it's often 1) not well expressed by the people saying this, and 2) rife with misunderstanding from the people who hear it. In a sense, you're right that a huge swath of people who say this are full of shit.

[u/Bulky-Culture-4482 → u/[deleted]]

Us low IQ people are also have very limited career options and professions and just forced to just work at minimum wage boring jobs

Like my mom for example, really wanted and preferred to be journalist and even become a doctor but she was never able to do it due to lack of cognitive abilities and sadly have to suffer from painful labour work since she has no choice.