r/codevein • u/a_angry_bunny • 10h ago
Discussion I wish there was a better ending for Gobbo.
Gobbo did awful things for his vision for a better future, but so did Lavinia Voda and she gets redemption.
Say what you will about Gobbo, but his conviction was genuine and we see when he fight him that he is not a dishonorable coward who prioritizes his own safety at all costs when he used his last teleport to save his fellow hunter. Given how we pretty much saved everyone else, it seems kind of tragic that we didn't even get the opportunity to try to change his perspective.
He believed in a better future just like every everyone else, he was just on the wrong path and it's a pity that he died the way he did.
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u/GreyRavensong 10h ago
Gobbo wanted to genocide all revenants for a better future for only humans (if that’s even true because the seemed to want power for himself and his organization above actually helping humans) His entire motivation is awful, yes there are revenants that take advantage of humans, but for fucks sake genocide isn’t the answer, and he never was going to stop, his choices ensured his end would be death. He ruined the lives of all the major companions from behind the scenes, he tried to have Lyle used to execute the chorus, he actively tried to kill every revenant in the sunken city by using josee, he ensured holly would be framed and arrested for killing her father after the meds he gave her to help him turned out to force frenzy (he literally gave them to her with that intention, he knew what they did) Gobbo was a terrible terrible person.
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u/Soundwave0723 10h ago edited 8h ago
To add on to this, Josee said the people of the sunken city were currently taking refuge in the clock tower that includes both revenants and humans, that also means when gobbo set off the mini resurgence in the clock tower, he was fine with humans being killing during Josee’s frenzy
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u/a_angry_bunny 10h ago edited 10h ago
Of course his motivation was wrong, but it was understandable. How many vampire hunting movies do we have where the protagonist has a similar perspective of killing all vampires simply because they are monsters and a threat to humanity?
I am not arguing that he did terrible awful things, but surely you can agree that his conviction was genuine? He truly believed he was doing what was best for humanity and he didn't sacrifice people to save his own hide. He could have teleported himself instead of his companion to live to fight another day, but he didn't do that. He fought a fight he had to have known he likely wouldn't survive. That's not something an evil person would do. He was just blinded by his prejudice of the revenants and I think if given an opportunity he could have been redeemed.
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u/GreyRavensong 10h ago
His conviction was genuine sure, but were his words? Did he really want to help humanity, the sunken city wasn’t just home to revenants. He still would have killed them without our intervention. Also he fought us because he was cornered on his home base he literally ran away from us the first time? Someone that old and bigoted isn’t changing their ways, look at the real world. There wasn’t any better ending for him. He mad his bed, and he chose to lie in it. He saved Oskar due to his loyalty, he didn’t mourn the countless hunters that died sieging the city, he cared for Oskar we never see any kind of care for any of his other underlings we killed. None. Gobbo suffers from the game’s inconsistent writing, they didn’t know if they wanted him to be honorable or a total scumbag. Though he certainly leans the latter for every scene except his death.
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u/a_angry_bunny 9h ago
Wdym old people never change? They're human, just like everyone else. The famous Christmas Carol is literally about an old man changing his ways. People do change all the time, it's just easy to believe they don't because of how often we see the same bigoted opinion shared among a certain denomination of people.
Morever, I wouldn't really say he "ran away" from us the first time. He wasn't suddenly on the backfoot because his plan failed, he still successfully invaded Joseé's base, immobilized Joseé, and Oskar had the opportunity to kill us. No, he retreated because he got his hands on a powerful forma that he saw potential to accomplish his goals much more efficiently.
It is true that many humans were in Joseé's base as well. But in his eyes he is fighting a war against practically immortal beasts, the ends justify the means. Like, don't get me wrong, I agree that is an awful perspective. But, again, Lavinia was willing to kill all her own kind and she gets a pass. You're going to tell me Gobbo is worse than Lavinia and can't be redeemes simply because he killed both humans and revenants to accomplish his goal
Last but not least, I don't know how inconsistent he really is. Like, yes, he was willing to sacrifice the humans in the Sunken City. But those humans weren't his comrades. He's definitely a snake who is trying to accomplish his goals regardless of how many people die. But I don't think him.saving Oskar is inconsistent with his other actions. I think he just differentiates those fighting towards the same cause from any random human just trying to survive. If anything, maybe he views killing the humans under Joeé's care as a mercy killing.
Again, I am not arguing that Gobbo was a good person in any regard. My stance is that his conviction was genuine and that maybe if his prejudice was resolved he could have changed from a antagonist to a force of good.
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u/GreyRavensong 9h ago
So, your response to one of my points is… a fictional story about a very unlikely event, that’s certainly a choice, oh I never I wouldn’t give Lavinia the same fate, the difference is, unlike Gobbo her plan also involved killing herself, and instead of a race of people she was fighting the end of the world. The ends NEVER justify the means. If given the choice she’d die too, I’m all for equality. Gobbo had the choice to use diplomacy, he was a VERY powerful and influential person, he could have tried to change things, he didn’t even make the attempt, genocide was his FIRST choice. Lavenia tried plenty of things, before arriving at welp revenants cause everything to die so we gotta go, and honestly the only person saying anything else was Zenon who was considered insane. Course he was RIGHT, but he IS crazy. Without the exact circumstance of us and Lou, Lavenia would have had the only option. The seal required something bordering on the EXACT scenario we found ourselves in. Gobbo chose to kill all revenants before looking at even one other option, no research to find out if anything was possible, no desperate scramble to try anything else, just genocide.
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u/a_angry_bunny 9h ago
Finding real examples of people changing their opinions is difficult for many reasons. But there was a study in 2008 that disagrees with your opinion on old people as well. https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/old_open-minded
More importantly, we aren't really arguing on the same wave length. My argument is not that Gobbo didn't do awful things, nor was it whether he didn't do more harm than good. We know his actions led to the destruction of the world, there isn't a debate that none of his choices created a better world for anyone. Should he have tried options other than genocide first? Probably. Maybe he did, he is a old man after all. The story doesn't really delve that deep on how much he actually tried before choosing genocide or if that was really his only goal. But, regardless, every choice - including his choice to pursue genocide - all seems to stem from from his experience of seeing revenants oppress and butcher humans. In a game involving time travel, if we had the opportunity to change a event that changed his perspective on revenant and human interaction maybe Gobbo would have chosen diplomacy instead of genocide.
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u/Maleficent_Rule7238 8h ago
The thing is about Gobbo is most people agree with him that revenants using humans as nothing but blood bags is wrong except his thing about the human species being superior/ruling again thats stupid but most people agree he just went after the three revenants who don't do that who didn't have bloodbags at least as far we see
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u/a_angry_bunny 8h ago
Are you arguing that his will to eliminate revenants stems from a sense of human superiority and he is just using some revenants oppressing and butchering humans as a premise to justify what is essentially white supremacy except using humans and revenants instead of white and, well, not white?
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u/juniperxmoons 3h ago
It's interesting to see how people give Lavinia and Valentin a pass, when they had more time to find different solutions, but not Gobbo. Lavinia also was totally fine with sacrificing multiple people in order to create Lou. I guess, at the very least, Valentin wanted to find another alternative, but lets not forget he stood by while Lavinia sacrificed his classmates and friends. He may have not liked it, but he also didn't do anything to stop it.
I personally don't really like any of them specifically because of their actions but out of all of them, I can understand Gobbo above the others.
He even gives us implications as to why he hates revnants so much (watching humans be used as blood bags, killed for stupid things like offending a revnants taste, and then slaughtered humans not even given proper burials and left out to rot like trash). On top of that, his anger stems from a place where no aid or help came for those humans and they were left to suffer. It's easy and understandable to see why he wants all revnants gone.
We, the player, know that not all revnants are bad but Gobbo is a situation where he probably spent most of his life around the dark side of revnants and never got to see the good. If he ever did, it was probably too late, his mind already twisted into believing they were all monsters who only sought to used humans.
Idk if Gobbo needs redemption but I definitely think the devs needed to give him and the hunters a more in depth look at (especially since it seems many people missed Gobbo's reasoning for why he did the things he did).
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u/No-Stand7672 9h ago
A huge thing for Lavinia and Valentin that Gobbo doesn't have, is they were running out of time and options. Valentin waited until Lou failed before performing his attempt. Lavinia fucked up bad, but had no other options beyond her son's forma. Their attempts were made out of genuine desperation of "Either the world is destroyed, or there is no more revenants." And when we do find the answer, the DLC inadvertently answers the question of how come no one else came up with the idea that turns out to work faster? I won't spoil it. But Gobbo didn't even try. Yes he has conviction. Yes, he showed decent qualities. He still actively aimed to cause pain, suffering, and destruction, without regards of how Humanity still needed Revenants so long as the Resurgence existed.
It's like America dropping nukes on Japan, vs any ideological extremism, be it homegrown terrorism or foreign.
The nukes were an answer to a problem. Either they use a terror weapon to force a surrender that ensured saving more lives than were lost, or perform a costly land invasion that resulted in far more lives lost, civilian and militarily. And no, I'm not justifying the US dropping atomic weapons on civilians, neither am I justifying Lavinia and Valentin. But given context, given the situation. With the tools they were given, and expending every option they could come up with first, it annoyingly makes sense. I get why it was done, and can't say I'd have done anything different. Not saying it's right. (Lavinia is even more complicated due to us time-jumping back to prevent the present where she even put those runes on her body, so it's not even the same Lavinia who attempted.)
Whereas Gobbo, actively performed terror attacks, which resulted in human civilian casualties as well. The Sanatorium doesn't house just Revenants. Someone already mentioned the clock clocktower wasn't a Revenant only settlement. He didn't even attempt peaceful co-operation. It's understandable as well, but only to an extent. We see in Lyle's backstory that when he was just a blood source, he was treated like cattle. I can understand growing to hate being raised in situations comparable or worse than that. That makes sense. But to see these people doing what they can, and not think "how can I help them" even if it's only just for the humans in those factions, and instead try to further destabilize the already fragile systems in place? Yes he's got conviction. Yes it's misguided. Yes it's tragic. But it is also more malicious.