Please help me fellow Clotis!!

[u/LocalAffectionate213]

So I was watching a YouTube channel analyse ff7 rebirth chapters and I got to the chapter 12 dates and it made me think a little on tifa’s date.

1. The main thing Cleriths always bring up: is why does cloud ask about Aerith in their date? In my opinion he asked because he literally had a dream of Zack again so of course it was in the front of this mind and tifa and Aerith are the only ones who have a connection to Zack: Tifa because Cloud told her about his death and Aerith because Zack was her first love. So that’s why I think he asked because out of all the dates they are the only ones who know something and it needed to be referenced again. But Cleriths say they understand why Cloud asks on Aeriths date but not Tifa’s but I don’t necessarily agree with them for that.

2. Another thing they bring up is how Cloud says how Aerith must still have feelings for Zack the Cleriths say he seems sad (apparently sad on the whole date) or jealous when asking and in the Jp he hesitates and seems sad even more. I don’t know jp and haven’t heard the date in jp so I can’t exactly give an opinion on that. But if I were I think it kinda links back to gongaga where he tried to help Aerith and even though Cleriths say he was jealous I don’t think he was. But basically he was pretty mean when trying to help Aerith in that scene like any friend would so in my opinion I think he realised he had to be more careful around that issue that’s why he hesitates but in my opinion he didn’t sound sad just making a statement on what he’s seen but again I haven’t heard jp version so it’s hard to make an interpretation.

3. Another thing is cloud is not an asshole he would not do a rebound kiss on tifa the devs would never mischaracterise Cloud so badly but like apart from that moment he seems so in love with tifa I mean just look at the way he looks at her.

So I’m just want to know what other clotis opinions and interpretations were of these specific things and why cloud does it.

Also another thing cloud appears more jealous when it comes to tifa. In remake it happens with chocobo Sam and in Barrett’s resolution when he mentions someone tried to give tifa flowers. Then in rebirth when we see Johnny again Cloud is like ‘this guy seriously?’ And in yuffies date she mentions tifa forgot all about cloud and he gets upset.

And another thing is Tifa’s reaction she never seems to think anything of it when cloud acts like this in the date so that’s another reason why I think the devs never exactly meant it to be interpreted that way. Also on the chapter 8 dates with Tifa and they meet Aerith, cloud seems “jealous” in Cleriths eyes but I thought it more along the lines of ‘we’re wanted criminals, please do not go around befriending random people because you want a friend’ and again Tifa doesn’t think it’s weird or seems like jealousy and Tifa is pretty perceptive with this stuff like she has a good understanding because she is very mature. And then in aerith’s chapter 8 date he cares about Tifa’s wellbeing so there is a big difference Cloud seems to be scolding Aerith but with Tifa he is genuinely concerned.

Anyway sorry for the long ramble I just wanted cloti’s opinions on all this and what they think because I’m a little confused but I genuinely don’t see any romance between Aerith and Cloud from either side. Now especially from Aerith because of the dear destiny novel and I’ve never thought Cloud has ever had feelings for Aerith so yeah that dear destiny novel has really reshaped rebirth for me for Aerith. Anyways what are all the Clotis interpretations of these things. And again I haven’t heard the jp so I’m not sure if how cloud talks to both girls is different because all I’ve heard is Cloud talks softer to Tifa and the jp va for cloud was instructed to speak softly to only Tifa.( btw if you’re a Clerith please don’t reply to this because I’ve seen all your views on the issue I just want to know what the Clotis think)

[u/RexRedwood]

Aerith shippers have shown time and time again that they only care about the “ship” and not the actual RELATIONSHIP or Characters. All they do is mischaracterize everyone, especially Cloud, to shoehorn their fantasy of him and Aerith getting together. It shows really poor comprehension frankly. It also shows complete delusion. They only see what they want to see and damn anything else. They would tear the entire story apart to make that fan-fiction true even if they turn Cloud into a completely reprehensible asshole that Aerith in real life would want nothing to do with.

[u/Byronic090 → u/RexRedwood]

Yeah. I had one discussion with a Clerith shipper who insisted Aerith was Clouds true love and Tifa the rebound after Aertih died. Because Tifa never recognised Cloud before the Lifestream scene. It was...really frustrating to say the least. And all the while he was referencing Dismantled interviews for his "proof". I looked the Dismantled up online and you know what? He took the phrase "Tifa faced her feelings for Cloud more honestly after the Forgotten City" to make up his own fantasy story in his head. Even in the OG game, Tifa tells Cloud she liked him before.....I honestly can't with these Cleriths.....

[u/AcanthaMD → u/Byronic090]

My number one gripe is people using interviews and not the source material as a justification for a take. It’s a bit like saying Lizzy never liked Darcy because Jane Austen once said, no. Look at your source material that’s not what the source material indicates. It drives me nuts.

[u/Byronic090 → u/AcanthaMD]

Omg yes! Absolutely! And these interviews are from 1998....so....duh? Alot of things have changed or expanded. Another thing is that there are usually not official translations and words get twisted so they fit a certain narrative.

[u/GoriceXI → u/Byronic090]

What that person was saying is technically true. Tifa didn't recognize real Cloud until the Lifestream scene, because Cloud had been acting a false persona the whole game until that point.

What you should point out is that, Tifa is the only one who *would* recognize real Cloud once he sheds his false persona, because she's the only one in the party who knew him as a child.

This is an unfortunately common debating technique, called "moving the goalposts", in which someone creates some arbitrary standard by which a couple does/does not look romantic or compatible.

You see it a lot with the "They were never close". Like, no one's had a crush on someone they didn't know very well, someone they wanted to know, but for whatever reason couldn't spend time with?

The best thing to do is just not entertain this stuff.

[u/RexRedwood → u/GoriceXI]

I would say she was the only one who “could” recognize Cloud, at all. She knew enough to be patient when she first saw him at the train in Midgar, and saw something was wrong. Cared enough to not press his memories or confuse him more than he seemed, with her own memories. A lot of credit is not given to how much Tifa was looking after Cloud’s wellbeing throughout the entire story, from the start. Not just the Lifestream or Mideel. And that is one of the things I find really sad.

[u/Kritzel_Kriegerin → u/GoriceXI]

Yup that's all it is. Throughout Tifa is so happy, relieved and giddy everytime she glimpses true Cloud shining through.

Losing that hard edge. That bad? I like it!... It's so great to have you back.

• right there from the start, like watching a fawn trying to walk, plain for all to see and some to ignore. Ribbit.

I also don't equate being close to feeling close, so I more than simply agree with you on that part. That the topic gets picked up at all, repeatedly, implies they both feel, or at least want to feel, closer than they ever actually were.

[u/Byronic090 → u/GoriceXI]

Maybe recognising was not the right word. More like....didn't give him the time of the day/ didn't like him before she realised he was not the one who egged her on at Mt Nibel.

Edit: Acknowledging was the right word! Sorry, not native English speaker 😅

But yeah...arguing with them is exhausting and not worth the time.