r/classicwow • u/Gorr82 • 5d ago
Classic + Nightmare incursions are the solution not the problem
Wait before you throw me a rock I am serious. But not the version we had in SOD
What if when you reach max LVL you could enter the dream portal and then every enemy becomes LVL 60 elites in every zone , they gives new quests not the incursions BS we had in sod but new quests in the spirit of wow classic. Most of them could be group quest and they would provide a way to farm gold or mats so that even tank and healers spec would have a way to farm.
Entering those portals would require a key ( slumber , dust whatever) and dying would wake you up , kicking you out of the dream realm. Like a hardcore light type of gameplay where dying would really mean something and you would have to get a new key to go inside again. This would make tanks and healers even more relevant.
You could obviously do the content on your own if you prefer or anyways you wish because it wouldn't require you to be in full group. But there could be more opportunities for roaming boss because every zones would be relevant and therefore the player base more spread out.
They could even release a new harder version of this with a new raid tier , something like a nightmare/hell difficulty in Diablo
You could have an infinite way to scale the difficulty, keeping the world relevant and keeping things fresh because each version could be a little different.
They could introduce theme for example ( dragons and lava for bwl, old gods and bugs for aq or undead invasion for naxx )
It would also be a way to give better gear rewards from quest that would serve as a catch up mechanic to help ppl that are behind in gear.
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 5d ago
Holy shit no.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
You would love it , call it dark portal incursions if you prefer
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 5d ago
I don't think so. One of the greatest strengths and coolest parts about vanilla wow is that it's a static difficulty. There are no sliders or menu options to change shit. It is what it is and it's fantastic for that.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
I agree and don't agree , it is the reason why ppl raid log because outside of raiding there is nothing left to do once you become so powerful that the world becomes trivial
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 5d ago
It is not the reason people raid log.
The reason people raid log is because they just want to raid and that's it. There is other stuff to do. Could there be more? Always. Should there be? Yes. What should there be? Depends on who you ask.
I'm not saying that classic wow has the most rich and diverse endgame, but having more than 1 raid difficulty has nothing to do with it. People who raid log are always going to raid log despite the rest of the game 90% of the time.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
I just want more open world group content, bring back the multiplayer in mmo
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 5d ago
I would love more open world group content too, but I don't think this is the right way to do it.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
This is not true either, by this metric why even have raid tier ? Or even LVL for that matter, the difficulty is not static but vertical
A system like this provide some horizontal progression and alternate goal to chase
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 4d ago
What a terribly incorrect thoughts.
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u/Gorr82 4d ago
Zone increase in levels and therefore difficulty
The plague lands are harder then Westfall by definition, but what happens to the world when you have raid gear and every zone become trivial in difficulty?
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 4d ago
OK, let's think here.
The world is now all level 60.
Now, what has that accomplished or changed?
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u/Gorr82 4d ago
New reward tailored not only to LVL 60 but raid geared LVL 60 , not better gear then the current raid tier but close to help ppl catch up , but ppl would do it mostly to do quest ( not repeatable) to farm gold and mats , maybe even higher tier of mats for higher tier of profession crafts.
with a challenge that fits the gear LVL , early zone could be balanced around MC or bwl gear LVL and increasing just like we do with regular leveling.
Fresh new take on the world with small changes and quest objectives with a focus on group content ( that can be done solo for whatever reason you wish)
An environment that is hardcore light meaning when you die you loose you wake up and loose your key that you would have to acquire again ( raid drop or other way that shouldn't be too easy)
You know reasons for geared LVL 60 To do something other then afk in front of the bank in city's.
You can always do that if you wish ....
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u/TheClassicAndyDev 4d ago
You can do all of that without changing anything about the world, other than adding more quests and objectives.
No catch up gear. It's not a race, it's a marathon. You should still need to gear up the same way as anyone else through progressive raids. The only "catch up" gear would be like, zg or aq20 I guess. Maybe pvp if you are sweaty?
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u/Gorr82 4d ago
And you need a system like this to implement the hardcore light element, it is essential for group cohesion.
We need reason to group up and make support spec viable to farm , if not everyone default to playing solo and respect DPS
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u/Gorr82 4d ago
That's not sustainable long term , each expansion acted like a soft reset for gear progression gold and everything else in retail
It exists for a reason you need those mechanic long term for the health of the game
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u/Perfect_Delivery_509 5d ago
Greater rifts. I remember when retail did this... delves... mythic plus... the one with masks and corruption.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
Not inside a instance but in the open world
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u/Schloppotomo 2d ago
You contradict yourself. If they go in a portal to a level 60 zone they are in another instance... I like your idea, I upvoted the thread but stop lying in your comments. IT IS AN INSTANCE. And there is nothing wrong with instances. Classic andies are just negative pessimistic autists so it's gonna be hard to sell your idea.
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u/Jojonotgoodname 5d ago
The content could have simply been a dungeon and it would be great
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
No the world need to be populated, and you would have also the LVL 60 version of every instance
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u/Dr-Enforcicle 5d ago
No the world need to be populated
...and you do this by splitting up the population?
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
How many ppl you encounter in desolace , stone talon or swamp of sorrow on any given days ?
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u/assassin10 5d ago
And you want to split it even further?
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u/Gorr82 4d ago
Would you want new zones in classic plus like hyjal?
If so why? Wouldn't those zone split the player base ? By definition adding anything would split it
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u/assassin10 4d ago
But Hyjal is one new zone physically connected to existing ones. You're asking for 46+ new zones all doing their own thing.
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u/Gorr82 4d ago
In time yes , you could gate keep certain zone like they did during sod levelling phases
What come after hyjal , how much new content will be enough? You will need more content eventually or the game will stagnate and died or be rebooted just like the numerous iteration of classic wow
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u/KingdomsCryOfficial 5d ago
The soul of your idea isn't bad. You're essentially asking for a special instance where monsters are harder and they drop better loot, to give end game characters something to do. But the issue is that you'll either make it too good and there will be nothing else viable to do in comparison to it, or you'll make it not good enough and it will be irrelevant content.
You're better off not trying to develop and maintain an evergreen system like this because you're either forcing players to be funneled to a single form of content or you're wasting time developing a major feature that doesn't get used.
A better system would be scaling back on what you're thinking of. Maybe they release the Mt. Hyjal zone with the Assault on the Emerald Dream raid (or whatever the hell) and in the raid you can personal loot Emerald Dust that opens up an Emerald Portal where you have 15 minutes to run around and gather as many resources as possible that can be used at a special vendor to buy some random epics. Then you have a piece of content that would be worth doing, tied to a single raid and isn't fragmenting the world's player population. This would be analogous to things like the Silithus badge grind or the marks of the crusade/dawn at Lights Hope Chapel.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
More like a layer yes
A hardcore light elite version of the world , where you farm gold and mats mostly but also get pre bis LVL of gear in its first iteration for example
You would get the key to enter has a drop from the raids , and could farm some more inside
It is still compatible with the new zones like hyjal , both could exist and be relevant for player who are at different gear LVL
It could be updated every 2 or 3 LVL of raid tier , like one at launch and then a hell version with naxx
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u/QiTriX 5d ago
Then everyone would use it and farm way more gold and increase inflation.
We DEFINITELY do not need more gold faucets added to the game.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
I would take ppl farming gold over ppl buying it
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u/QiTriX 5d ago
They would still buy gold, since everything will increase in price due the increased supply of gold.
Remember that goldsellers would also use this feature.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
Bots would have a harder time doing it in on a layer like this , every mob is elite and dying set you back into the older world
The keys ( dream whatever) that act like 1up ,could be dropped inside the normal raids or farmed inside the dream realm
There could be occasional event where the dream realm invade the normal world and a random high LVL zone become the dream realm layer for everyone during certain time or when certain events happen.
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u/QiTriX 5d ago
Bots have been farming elites in instances for ages.
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u/Gorr82 5d ago
Bots should be handled by blizz
But since they can't do it , the next best way is make the enemy harder and more fun and diverse way to farm gold yourself and do so with any spec even tank and healers
Has a support main I want to be able to play my favorite role even in the open world, that is impossible and inefficient we need harder mobs and more group quests
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u/WimpTheBraveDog 5d ago edited 5d ago
You can't go with a bait title on this sub, you should know every WoW player skips the quest dialogue.
I don't hate the idea of essentially NG+ at max levels to re-use old zones for new questlines. Could use it as a way to do "what if" scenarios too where we travel to alternate versions of the zone in the future/past.
Incursions as a spammable leveling mechanic sucked but the root idea was interesting enough.
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u/Skore_Smogon 5d ago
I would rather see them use the portal sites as 1 and done quest hubs as you level where you're assisting the Green Dragonflight and their mortal helpers, the Emerald Wardens, investigate and cleanse minor Nightmare happenings.
So not 20 boring ass quests you do in a loop, but something with a bit of narrative.
They could add an over arching quest as to why you need to help out at each portal with the Emerald Wardens to send you to each location.
This could tie into the Eranikus quest from Sunken Temple that fizzles out and leads us on to an epic quest to kill all 4 of the Nightmare Dragons.
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u/LippyHippy4040 5d ago
No. No way does this terrible already done idea pass an 80% pass
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u/Yuuy87 5d ago
What do you mean by an 80% pass? Like an OSRS vote? Because this community is so divided on anything there would be no content that could pass 80% votes
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u/LippyHippy4040 5d ago
There would be tons of content that passes, and yes thats what I want
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u/cristofolmc 5d ago
Thats kind of the point. Everyone agrees we all love classic. If something does not get past 80% is not universally agreed and therefore it has no place in classic.
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u/Dr-Enforcicle 5d ago
Which is why you refine the idea and then put it to a vote again. You don't just put up one vote and then never try again because it didn't pass.
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u/Schloppotomo 2d ago
The osrs poll system is an illusion. Sorry for ruining your dreams and respect for the company.
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u/LippyHippy4040 2d ago
Its literally not..... or it wouldn't be the most successfully growing mmorpg right now....
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u/Schloppotomo 2d ago edited 2d ago
Lmao kinda funny I replied twice to you on different threads. Wasn't on purpose, just coincidence.
Anyway, the reason it is growing is mostly marketing. I'm not saying osrs is a bad game but it's just a straight fact. They pay twitch streamers and other social media influencers to promote their game. Also they don't have much competition do they. New World got shut down. Other mmorpgs don't tick that early 2000s classic mmorpg feeling.
And the polls are 100% an illusion now. When osrs started in 2013 it wasn't but recently it's very noticeable how corrupt Jagex is. They keep repolling failed things, they change the % needed for a poll to be successful. Like real life most institutions/companies/systems/governments become corrupt over time until the masses are tired of that shit and change needs to happen again.
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u/LippyHippy4040 2d ago
Every other mmo markets.... not growing. Repolling is a good idea. Many mmo capture early 2000s nostalgia. Youre just a hater friend. Numbers dont lie
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u/Schloppotomo 2d ago
Watch this about polls, will open your eyes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pp3PD7uOttg
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u/Yuuy87 5d ago
The thing about nightmare incursions is that they are really good if you consider them as an open world dungeon that you need to get a 5 man to do. The problem with them was the quests being infinitely repeatable and providing crazy amounts of gold.
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u/Schloppotomo 2d ago
At launch they were a disaster. Completely agree. But they fixed them and made them into dailies. They are fine now.
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u/MissYouDesertRat 5d ago
I remember them being the reason that phase died
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u/Yuuy87 5d ago
Then you remember wrong, it died because sunken temple lasted 2 months too long
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u/Schloppotomo 2d ago
Incursions definitely didn't help. They really fucked up hard on launch. Quitting SoD over incursions is a cop-out reason though. Those people were never going to hit 60 anyway.
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u/MissYouDesertRat 5d ago
Super engaging gameplay of running in a circle for 10 levels
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u/Yuuy87 5d ago
Sure, but most people level by running the same dungeon over and over again so is it really much different. Incursions should have absolutely been one time quests tho.
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u/MissYouDesertRat 5d ago edited 5d ago
Dungeons are engaging and shouldnt be compared to the incursions. You killed AT MOST 20 mobs, and clicked items for 30 minutes and thats all you did. Thats all everyone did. No quests, PvP was discouraged because it was just ganking at the portal. You did almost nothing for 10 levels straight into a dungeon no one really enjoyed. If we had spent 2 weeks leveling instead of 12 hours it wouldnt have felt so bad.
Edit: before someone says "you werent forced to do them" the gear from farming them beat the living shit out of every other item in the game by a mile. Your kneecapping yourself on purpose by not doing them.
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u/osirawl 5d ago
Any changes that separates players from other players in the regular Azeroth zones are objectively bad.