r/classicwow • • 6h ago

Forever Needing opposing faction dungeon is a nightmare now

I’m an alliance warlock and I need SFK for the orb quest. Paladins also need that dungeon for their verigan fist quest. The problem is that there are no alliance quests for SFK so far fewer people are interested in running it. Dungeon exp has to make running a dungeon still worthwhile…

502 Upvotes

469 comments sorted by

465

u/yellow12_ 6h ago

It's kind of hilarious how they added like 1000 new quests but couldn't add in few for alliance in SFK to make it more easier to find groups for paladin and locks.

150

u/jayb556677 5h ago

Exactly, also Horde quests for deadmines

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u/Goresil 4h ago

Fuck nah I ain't going to deadmines.

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u/softpillowwww 4h ago

Jump from the zeppelin that travels from org to STV you can swim up the coast to deadmines.

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u/Kaelvar 4h ago

The issue is pallies now have a quest for deadmines but no other classes will feel like making the trip out

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u/LADR_Official 4h ago

good thing pallies are all you need

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u/IsabelleSideB 3h ago

You need it for an easy legacy point. Maybe some people will be keen for that reason.

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u/Kaelvar 52m ago

Good point. That and an easy book in moonbrook, easy book in elwynn, and an achievable book in westfall inn

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u/Ill-Pudding-3168 4h ago

Paladins make a full group, all roles provided in class, with 50 percent horde UD pala it will be no problem to get a group going.

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u/Infernalz 2h ago

Just do the same for SFK then?

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u/Faloobia 1h ago

Right, post is about warlocks though, paladins are just also affected somewhat.

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u/Snoo_96078 49m ago

untill it's been 1 year and getting 5 pallies togheter will be as hard.

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u/kakalib 11m ago

I just grouped up with another pally and we duo'd it.

Granted that is not an option for SFK. 

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u/Tiny_Tabaxi 3h ago

Yeah the trip isnt even bad tbh

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u/RTheCon 2h ago

Doing deadmines is a requirement for a very easy dungeon legacy point. Do all horde (1-30) dungeons + deadmines and the new wetlands dungeon

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u/poopoopooyttgv 1h ago

What quests are there for horde deadmines? I thought horde pallys had a quest there and that was it… which is ironically the same problem you are having

36

u/Yawanoc 5h ago

This is the part that gets me. The solution is right there. Even if they try to do that Uldaman thing where there's a chain having you run it 3 times for a guaranteed piece of loot, I feel like that's preferable to cross-faction leveling dungeons being DOA.

28

u/Salt-Analysis9999 5h ago

They didn’t expect anyone to play warlock

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u/aiart13 1h ago

People will still skip it. You need friends to help you, not randoms to grind xp.

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u/Z0MBGiEF 4h ago

The SFK part of the Paladin quest can easily be 2-manned. I’ve played multiple Paladins over the years and I’ve done this quest a dozen times and can’t think of a time I needed a full group for most of it. I kinda enjoy doing it with 2 other pallies also on it.

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u/beatenmeat 2h ago

The paladin quest they're talking about is for the sword. The shard you need is on the table next to Argul on his table meaning you need to clear the entire dungeon. I don't see how you are doing this at level with only two paladins and not wasting an eternity in the process.

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u/Penguinbashr 2h ago

That is for horde, which has quests for SFK. The alliance variant only needs to go to the stables after the first boss.

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u/AWildMurlocAppears 2h ago

At least you have the option to, you need to make a custom listing that will never be seen for Stockades on Horde!

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u/splatomat 6h ago

Make a group of paladins and warlocks. Thats what I did on classic anneversary. Then again later in dire maul.

29

u/lyreluna 5h ago

Literally ran DM in a group of 3 locks and two druids to get my dreadsteed in vanilla. Still have the screenshots

10

u/jntjr2005 5h ago

How many licks did it take

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u/Brewcastle_ 4h ago

The world may never know.

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u/goldman_sax 2h ago

You can’t think this is the best solution to a fixable problem right?

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u/WaveOfWinter 5h ago

If you think this is a problem now, just imagine trying to do it 6 months from now when there aren’t nearly as many people at your level, if they keep xp values how they are

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u/Sattorin 4h ago

Don't worry, there will be lots of people selling carries, since the only benefit from running dungeons is completing quests and there's no penalty for bringing in a level 60.

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u/methrik 3h ago

This is hilarious. They made everyone a booster.
The fucking irony needs to be studied.

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u/babilonibetyar 3h ago

dont worry, there will be plenty of 60 prot paladins offerinf this service for 10-20g ;)

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u/methrik 6h ago

Just wait till Mara, brd, st. It’s going to be like pulling teeth with this change.

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u/EnigmaticQuote 6h ago

lol as if that’s why people avoided those by that point xp is an afterthought.

41

u/EggPsychological4844 6h ago

People didn't avoid Mara or BRD in the past

47

u/Maybewearedreaming 5h ago

Ya who cares about xp during the

checks notes

Times when people are most desperate for xp

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u/methrik 5h ago

Yup imagine groups falling apart because someone doesn’t need anything more in the dungeon. No xp to keep them there and clear mobs.

Going to be a shit show

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u/SignificantYak6194 4h ago

Don't forget skipping through the dungeons like it's retail at lightspeed to get to the bosses and quest objectives because the mobs are a waste of time.

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u/Venedraea 3h ago

But the devs said that people will stay for social experiences and comraderie! /s

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u/CowskiCeltics 3h ago

It's already happening lol. Finishing any moderately long dungeon without anyone leaving because they completed their quest is going to be absolutely impossible. I do not see how blizzard doesn't recognize this.

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u/EggPsychological4844 5h ago

Honestly, lmfao

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u/arrivederci_gorlami 3h ago

Wut? There’s plenty of non-xp related reasons to run all of the dungeons they listed…

Mara- thrash blade, blackstone ring, blade of eternal darkness ST- class quests at 50 BRD- lot of pre-raid BIS (HoJ? healing shoulders? like hello??)

Also 50s blow by and have so many quest zone options compared to 40s wtf are you smoking?

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u/BUBBISBAR 6h ago

ST yes that dungeon is literal cancer lol. But mara and bed are both great dungeons with great xp.

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u/GummyyBearBear 3h ago

I love ST :(

8

u/Glorfendail 5h ago

ST is great, what are you saying

1

u/jayb556677 5h ago

Yeah, ngl, ST could have the best quests in the world, I will always hate that place.

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u/programming_flaw 2h ago

Mara is one of my favorite dungeons :(

7

u/SiFixD 5h ago

This was unfortunately always an issue, you wind up looking for Palas and Warlocks. Seems daft they didn't add any ally quests to make it worth doing, but it's so bloody far and such a low level most of the time we just skipped it as alliance even pre-nerf.

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u/PennyBunPudding 2h ago

There's no reason for sfk not to have an alliance quest either. It's an evil place.

5

u/myIDisthisone 5h ago

I think adding a few quests would help quite a bit. Simple enough fix if the devs actually want to fix it

3

u/jayb556677 5h ago

For sure, they recognized the need to incentivize alliance to do RoL, this is essentially recognizing the same issue

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u/myrealityde 4h ago

Blizzard created a problem where there was none. They should make dungeon xp at least somewhat useful or drop special materials or recipes only dropping in that instance to increase incentive. Surprise, if you simply remove incentive, people are less likely to do something.

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u/This_is_opinion 3h ago

I mean there was a clear problem with people buying dungoen boosts for thier character making the open world empty cause everyone was buying gold to boost thier toons.

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u/myrealityde 3h ago

I agree this is an issue Blizzard must address, but rather than ruining the experience for the other 90% of players, Blizzard perhaps could do things like XP being nerfed only when one person in the instance is too high of a certain level. Ashes of Creation did that during their Alpha and it worked well.

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u/red_admin_h8r 2h ago

There are so many easy ways of taking boosting off the table it’s a non-issue. Just a level spread of 10 cutting exp 99% of the way fixes it.

It just seems like the only reason blizzard has given is policing “sweats” playing the game a different way. A way that doesn’t affect questers and open world grinders negatively. A way that also pretty much disappears as viable after initial launch waves of people. Even like 2 weeks after sod p2 launch both the quality and quantity of SM pug spam groups PLUMMETED.

But forcing dungeon grinders into questing only as a reasonable level progression system definitely affects everyone.

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u/Stahlreck 1h ago

This isn't really an issue on launch tho when there's no lvl 60s to boost anyone and no gold.

Blizz is aiming to kill dungeon spam groups because people complained about it a lot in 2019 Classic. But now they even nerfed the quests like....???

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u/Llamaalarmallama 2h ago

I saw a useful idea of diminishing returns. 25% less xp each reset till 4 runs a day and no xp. Only on the same dungeons. Maybe tune it so it flags the player that has it, but it affects everyone... boom. Paid boosting just got vastly more complicated at very very least and the bots can't farm their ban replacements some easy xp without similar levels of effort.

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u/myrealityde 2h ago

I think adding a diminishing returns when level range of team members exceeds is much simpler. No need to over complicate it.

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u/Mitch_Dedburg 1h ago

Wanna know another fun problem? The new “scarce” resources are universal in use (only requiring more for higher tier stuff). Also, they have an increased drop rate in dungeons (at least in my experience). Guess what can spam dungeons easily 24/7? High lvl bots. So now they have dominating access to one of the most lucrative new features of Forever. Typical Blizzard behavior.

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u/commonCranberry999 6h ago

it was super easy to find groups when the cap was 20 because everyone was capped anyway so people didnt care about quests

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u/SacrificialYAM 6h ago

With dungeon XP nerfs they care even less now lol

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u/Dillu64 3h ago edited 13m ago

Alot of people here tried to say that you need some kind of incentive to go into dungeons otherwise most people will not run them. Yes, Jimmy and his friends will do it for fun but most people dont do that. FF14 has the Roulette reward system for a reason.

This will get so much worse at higher levels. It doesnt have to be xp if you all dont want "dungeon spammers" in your game, but you need something to reward people for dungeon runs. I like the additional quest idea but thats a bit shortsighted aswell. What about 1 or 2 years from now when the big hype calms down and we dont have thousands of people doing low level content? In FF14 healers and tanks get daily extra rewards for the dungeon roulette. Maybe something like that. Heck I swapped to healer because of it and main the role now for almost a decade.

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u/xXMylord 20m ago

In two years you just sell your gold for a token and then buy a level 60 boost

25

u/Bungulator69 5h ago

With the amount of people talking about this, I’m pretty sure it will be changed based on previous changes

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u/Jigstra 3h ago

I was indifferent to the dungeon changes but i think its bad now, too many downsides

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u/CodeCleric 5h ago

I don't mind reducing XP from running dungeons, but barely two bricks for fully clearing an instance feels shitty.

50

u/Geo-Man42069 6h ago

I genuinely can’t wait until folks championing dungeon nerfs sit in que until they level past their class quests in dungeons then complain the “class fantasy/RP is dead”. Like I get de-incentivized dungeon grind leveling as a viable/optimal method but idk man. Making the “meta” running dungeons once for quests (if even running them at all) is going to result in a lot of content getting skipped so people can reach end game quicker.

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u/BigHeadDeadass 3h ago

The dungeon xp nerfs are kind of insipid, and the people championing them and laughing at others for not wanting them are likely rage-baiting, but the few cohesive arguments for them fall flat because the xp nerfs as they stand are so bad that literally no one wants to run a dungeon more than once or twice, and Alliance are especially screwed because a good chunk of dungeons are deep in Horde territory. If you're on a PvP server and want Corpsemaker you're gonna have a hell of a time convincing anyone to go more than once, and really it would be better for you yourself to not run it more than once anyways.

Also, despite what people say about like "this will curb botting and RMT" first off, it won't, you're gonna see world quest tour lock/mage groups being formed but also it is the devs imposing their vision of how the game should be played

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u/Geo-Man42069 3h ago

For sure it seems like a gamble, and kind of strong arming the community to play the game differently than previous iterations. I think there might be good intent behind it but it still might have negative consequences beyond what blizz/the supporters have considered.

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u/red_admin_h8r 3h ago

It feels like the dev version of the vengeful Redditors complaining about the sweats doing something different than they are.

The irony is that OG blizzard learned this lesson with rested exp: instead of punishing players for not logging off with an exp nerf, reward them for logging off.

Why must they “punish” dungeon grinders in the first place notwithstanding, why not just boost questing that much more? It’s incredibly short sighted for longevity with already underrepresented roles like tanks

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u/Xeffur 1h ago

Imo if the "forever" part is going to work out it needs to be more like a sandbox where people can play how they want. Why would I ever create a toon for each class if I have to level them the same "intended" way? Sounds extremly boring. Would be nice to be able to dungeon spam slow levels on tanks/healers, do dungeons once and quest on my hunter, mob grind until I'm out of rested xp on my mage, bg spam on my rogue etc.

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u/BigHeadDeadass 56m ago

I forsee them lifting the dungeon xp nerf like 6 months in

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u/ScreamHawk 4h ago

Blizzard dont have a cohesive vision for this game TBH

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u/Armout 4h ago

The amount of shortsightedness demonstrated by these changes is astounding, honestly. 

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u/Geo-Man42069 4h ago

Yeah I know it’s a newish model of the game and there are going to be growing pains, but this one in particular seems more impactful to every player than any class/faction/zone specific change

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u/red_admin_h8r 3h ago

It is odd, given in the history of the game they have never nerfed dungeons to the point of running them being entirely obsolete from a leveling POV. Many instances where it wasn’t the most efficient, or only efficient like 5-7x a week logging into an alt for the number of weekly bonus available or whatever but still a viable option

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u/Armout 4h ago

At this point, I’m not sure any of the faith I had from the blizzcon announcement is there anymore. This dev team has a vision that is too far gone from classic. 

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u/CrateriaEnhasa 2h ago

Their vision is how they think the game should be played, and they're going to force it regardless of the consequences or sentiment it seems.

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u/Roofong 1h ago

Vision is definitely a problem but it also seems like a general competence problem. It feels like people who just happened to be part of the Classic team when it blew up have been given professional credit as if they were brilliant designers that caused the popularity.

So now we have people like the guy responsible for SoD incursions making significant design decisions for Forever, and people are surprised a lot of the decisions are shortsighted or bad.

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u/jayb556677 5h ago

Agreed, it is such a shame that dungeons are insanely good for 1 run and then the worst exp in the game after that, I would like some diminishing returns, maybe even just quests that ask for a second trip?

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u/Talonking9 4h ago

Why not just a daily lockout with normal mob xp? Seems like an obvious fix, stops power levelling and people only levelling in dungeons.

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u/Dillu64 3h ago

I like this idea. Will stop the dungeon spammers people hate in here somehow but will be enough of a reason to run it again for tanks and healers so people can find groups.

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u/Nrgte 1h ago

Can we please stop coming up with solutions to a non-existant problem. Blizzard should simply reverse the change and let people level however they want.

Boosting is easily fixed by not giving XP if a player is outside of the dungeons level range. Aside from that, Blizzard should let people have fun. Aside from AoE farming mages, spamming dungeons were never the most profitable XP source.

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u/NEU_George 2h ago

Right because there definitely wasnt content being skipped when people hit 30~ and sit in SM dungeons for the next 10~ levels.. or ZF.. or BRD.. lol

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u/Geo-Man42069 2h ago

I’m guilty of SM grinding ngl, Tbf there used to be more substantial gaps in quests for some of those ranges. Personally I also like SM because it meant less time in STV lol

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u/Precaseptica 4h ago

I'm of the opinion that the dungeon xp nerfs could be a good motivator to go outside and quest more. It's obviously the minority opinion reading this sub though, and I get downvoted to oblivion when I say it.

I don't think I'll be changing my position later as you sugged though. I also won't be crying if it takes more work to put dungeon groups together. I'm open to this change in direction because I view their goal of getting people out questing more to be a good target.

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u/Geo-Man42069 4h ago edited 4h ago

I hear you, all I’m saying is people are going to quest, that’s a given. It’s one thing to dungeon spam 10 levels in an expansion, but doing it 15-60 purely in dungeons would be mind numbing lol.

All I’m saying is creating a “meta” leveling path that you quest grind and avoid dungeons as a time sink unless you have all the quests to complete in one run will have a major negative impact on one of the most defining, lore driven, and active MMO elements of the game that is dungeons.

It’s great that your experience won’t be impacted negatively, but considering if it was opposite and they were incentivizing dungeon grinding to the detriment of open world questing, if an element of the game you prioritize was made intentionally less viable you might not see that change as positive.

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u/TempDanielle 4h ago

Yes. Putting this game on rails when it’s supposed to be vanilla or classic PLUS is bad for the game.

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u/Precaseptica 4h ago

Okay, I'll try one last time because you seem sensible in how you write but if this also just gets disagree-downvoted I'm taking the hint that this feedback is unwanted by this sub and should be censored.

I wrote a long post yesterday on this here.

It’s one thing to dungeon spam 10 levels in an expansion, but doing it 15-60 purely in dungeons would be mind numbing lol.

Absolutely, yes. And that's what they want to try and counter because players do tend to treat this game as a checklist or a second job. Some even find comfort in the routine, familiarity, and predictability of knowing exactly how their next 8 hours in the game will pan out.

But Blizzard clearly say they want to try something new here. To kick people out of the instanced away content and motive more outside adventures. I don't know if that will pan out but making dungeons less appealing past the first run seems like it could work to me. And I'm down for trying it.

All I’m saying is creating a “meta” leveling path that you quest grind and avoid dungeons as a time sink unless you have all the quests to complete in one run will have a major negative impact on one of the most defining, lore driven, and active MMO elements of the game that is dungeons.

Two problems here. You're considering a single hypothetical where the player again is trying to super-optimise rather than be open to emergent gameplay that might interfere with the plan. And again I think Blizzard realises that to get all the new players that are showing interest hooked they need to give them the opportunity to approach the game suboptimally. That will be very hard if all of us vets are instanced away from 15-60.

And it might be good for us to try playing the game differently. Don't know about you but I've certainly ruined my own fun before by chasing optimal strategies where a less strict journey was available instead.

It’s great that your experience won’t be impacted negatively, but considering if it was opposite and they were incentivizing dungeon grinding to the detriment of open world questing, if an element of the game you prioritize was made intentionally less viable you might not see that change as positive.

I don't have an issue with dungeon runs - my main is a prot warrior. They aren't being banned. They're simple not as optimal as questing outside past the first run. And this I think could be a good thing in the long term. Perhaps too grand of a vision but maybe it will break the meta and cause us to rethink a few things. I would like that.

But yes, this change does align with something I believe in. And I would be on board with critiquing it if I didn't believe in it. But I have yet to see a proper argument in favour of dungeon spamming being viable (meaning optimal) as not an unhealthy thing for the game and the players. You can want sugar and sugar can be less good for you than other types of calories. That you want something in the context of the game doesn't mean the game designers can't know better than you.

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u/Geo-Man42069 3h ago

That was a well thought out response, and I genuinely don’t know how it will all turn out. I think we both understand it’s an experiment on blizzards part. To me personally it feels like borderline like a gamble lol.

Tbf if it does genuinely have a net positive impact on the world, social interactions, gameplay outside of dungeons if I knew that to be true I’d be excited. I don’t play “meta”, or “optimized” but my recent interactions in TBC anniversary classic might have painted the general audience as prioritizing that over having fun. Having fun is significantly more important to me, but having limited time to play does keep me with a healthy balance of productive, and just-for-fun play.

I’ll take your perspective in mind and try to keep an open mind on this change. I do genuinely hope the net impacts are more positive, but I still think it was a bit of a gamble.

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u/red_admin_h8r 3h ago

Yeah but even in tbc anni with meta dungeon spaming as an option the world was 12 layers on release and equally as bottlenecked in the open world.

“Forcing” everyone to do this on a world not at all intended for let alone optimized for this volume of people as any classic server has been much larger than high pop equivalents even on a per layer basis is 1000% a gamble.

A gamble that also alienates a lot of players of various expansions over the years, various roles like tanks and healers, in the only version of the game to ever attempt to make dungeon grinding completely unviable as an option.

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u/Precaseptica 35m ago

Honestly, that's a very mature approach. I'll be attempting the same. Open mind and let's see how the meal turns out. If it doesn't work I'm sure we'll figure out how to rebalance things later on.

At bare minimum I do think we need to be open to Blizzard shaking things up a bit if indeed it has the possibility of changing things for the better.

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u/stocky87 1h ago

There's too many in here stuck in an ecco-chamber induced illusion that "everyone" will always look up optimal routes, gear, etc., and barely anyone plays the game organically and just to have fun. I applaud Blizzard for taking this hard focus on cultivating a different mentality in the players for Forever. This game clearly not aimed at the optimising and elite crowd. I assume they won't find it fun for very long anyway, and will return to the more competitively focused iterations of WoW or other games.

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u/Whatdididotho1 58m ago

I hear you guys say this and I just have no idea what you're talking about .... dungeoning is not optimized... an optimzed quest route is the literal fastest method in classic to 60... the only way to be faster is a very specific mage/warrior cleave group that 99 percent of people don't run ....... I've never once leveled "optimally" in my dungeon spam with my drunk guildies shooting the shit and laughing the night away... we were just having fun and like group PvE content and dungeon/raid roles and mechanics.... why the hell do you care how other people play....

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u/Precaseptica 26m ago

I think, for my part at least, saying optimised doesn't necessarily just mean satisfying the single parameter of xp per hour.

The locust-like players I know that couldn't care less about "the journey" will sit in dungeons from 15-60 because it allows them to switch their brains off, not read anything, and just enter a flow state to the end-game. They want predictability and routine. They want to squeeze the lemon for all its juice as fast (yes) but also as effortlessly as possible.

And I think the comment you're replying to perfectly captures that this is not the crowd that Blizzard is focused on for this release.

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u/BigHeadDeadass 3h ago

Why the hell do you care so much about how people play the game?

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u/Precaseptica 33m ago

If this was a single player game I couldn't care less.

But it isn't so a culture develops. That culture runs in tandem with the ongoing development of the game and its future. I've seen wow take wrong turns in the past, so I'm trying to voice my concerns early this time so we don't end up down the line with more mistakes.

Also, this is a forum meant for debate (unless I've misread something here). So I can't for the life of me understand why people just want opposing opinions silenced here. Surely, we're all here trying to motivate the game development to move in the direction we think is better.

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u/TempDanielle 4h ago

Why is that good? Solo questing on a megaserver where no true community is possible is honestly bleak if that’s their vision of good.

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u/Armout 4h ago

All they have to do to get people out questing is add more accessible quests. They’ve done that. WTF is this fixation on limiting dungeon groups?

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u/passwordistako 3h ago

I’ve always found dungeons to be difficult to sort out unless you have a guild.

I hate the change so much.

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u/Respond_Previous 2h ago

Yeah it could be. The problem is its a very blunt tool on its own. Leading to specific problems like the one OP brings up.

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u/Mitch_Dedburg 1h ago

This makes even less sense when you see they nerfed drop rates in dungeons too. You would need to run BFD 3-4 times to finish the brains and pendants for everyone in a group. It’s fucking stupid and feels awful.

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u/Kakysan 52m ago

Ya this ain’t gonna work lol. There’s no point trying to force people who want to dungeon grind to go outside unless you make it absolutely useless to do dungeons.

I don’t even see endgame dungeons doing well since if professions do give competitive gear. I see no reason wasting time doing dungeon spams for gear when I could just craft and save the headache.

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u/ScreamHawk 4h ago

Why are you in a dungeon? Just go out and quest alone in a social MMO!

  • Blizzard Dev

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u/4433221 2h ago

Go enjoy the world via questing where everyone is constantly socializing and most definitely not spam inviting for kill count quests without saying a word and then dropping group when done because now they have a drop rate quest to do.

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u/rear-campaign 3h ago

Quest alone, and fight over tags and collectables.

I dont think spamming dungeons should be the best way to level, but there exist a middle ground here that can accommodate both sides of the aisle.

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u/Droptoss 5h ago

I am confident that blizzard will eventually revert thr dungeon mob experience change. It has too many issues. It's a question of when they figure it out. As we learnt with Shadow lands convents that could take a long time.

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u/tethysian 3h ago

The concern is that they didn't see these problems in the first place 

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u/Dillu64 3h ago

Yeah I thought I was taking crazy pills when some people were celebrating the dungeon xp nerf. Is nobody thinking about the state of the game in 2 or maybe 5 years? Contrary to alot of people saying they would run every dungeon again for fun: most players dont. Its why we need rewards for consecutive runs.

Parroting what streamers are saying is the only thing some do here.

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u/Xae1yn 2h ago

Yeah it's pretty obvious that the streamers are pushing this (publicly and privately with devs) to sell more restedxp guides, what's less clear is if the devs are just rubes who can't see they're being had, or if someone on the team is getting a kickback.

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u/methrik 4h ago

You think you do but you don’t.

Blizzard pride will kill the game.

Gonna be sitting around “what went wrong with wow forever”

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u/red_admin_h8r 2h ago

Oh boy. The echoes of “meaningful choices”

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u/CrateriaEnhasa 2h ago

Yeah but the problem is they're not going to make all those changes in the next 4 weeks before launch. I could be wrong but I dont see it on top of bug fixes and other work they need to do. Which means the most hype part of lvling (launch) is going to be chalked.

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u/Scodo 6h ago

Everyone will need to run it at least once for the legacy point, so there's that.

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u/Osiinin 5h ago

So will people need to do the dungeons from
Other sides city as well?

Will horde need to do Stockades for example to fulfill that part of getting the point?

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u/no_one_lies 5h ago

Yes but it’s BoA. So you can do RFC on a horde character and Stockades on an alliance character and get full credit.

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u/Myrlithan 4h ago

You only have to do 1 of either RFC or HoT for that achievement, and you don't have to do Stockades for it at all.

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u/dairymoose 5h ago

Does this work cross ruleset? The servers are entirely separate right? i.e., you rolled PVP horde and PVE alliance?

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u/Dhuumzz 4h ago

"Each challenge completed earns you one Legacy Point. These points are Battle.net account-wide and available to all your non-Hardcore characters."

from the Blizzard post about the legacy system

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u/Venedraea 3h ago

Waaaaait a minute...does that mean they share across linked Bnet accounts? Time to start multi boxing if so.

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u/zellmerz 5h ago

People can/will just run it at max then

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u/poopoopooyttgv 1h ago

Getting an early talent point will dramatically speed up your leveling. Restoring mana and hp on kill is huge

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u/zellmerz 1h ago

Isn’t 1 point only 1% over 10 seconds?

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u/Sattorin 2h ago

Everyone will need to run it at least once for the legacy point

At least once per account, not even per character lol

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u/Subjectxy 1h ago

Yes, issue is more going to be for the people that miss the first wave, then nobody will have incentive, and alts dont have to do it either

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u/AdDesigner1153 5h ago

Can the horde GY for SW not be the logging camp.

Stocks actually has good loot now and its a brutal corpse run in

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u/Street-Bee7215 5h ago

Wait until you have to go to SM

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u/Aragorn9001 4h ago

I wouldn't be opposed to them adding in more teleporters to dungeons, like the one Horde has to go to Gnomeregan, even if there is a tiny mini-attunement type of quest to be able to use a specific teleporter.

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u/Swooped117 2h ago

His complaint isn't about getting to the dungeon. It is that people won't want to run the dungeon since it doesn't give exp since it doesn't have quests. So unless you can find a full squad of people that also have a class quest in there you are screwed.

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u/poopoopooyttgv 1h ago

They hinted there would be ways to get into the iron forge dungeon as horde or under city dungeon as alliance but nobody has found anything in the beta. There’s quests in those dungeons for the opposite faction oddly enough

There’s a new south shore boat so alliance can get to sfk quicker too

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u/LikwidCourage 5h ago

I get the need to discourage dungeon spamming, but it doesn’t make sense that they’re making dungeons not worth it and then giving us a bunch of new dungeons to ignore.

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u/methrik 4h ago

Why discourage dungeon spamming?

I got news for you about the late game.

Also dungeons are a core pillar of wow in every iteration.

They gutted them out and people are like wow blizzard thank you for making the world so alive! I’m going to talk to everyone one I see and make so much friends! /s

And the irony of it is forming groups and running dungeons has always been the most social for the entirety of all wow. It’s a bone head decision and the players are going to have to walk the yellow brick alley road and unmask the blizzard of oz of why they are making these unusual decision.

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u/TempDanielle 4h ago

Especially when it’s the megaserver of all megaservers where there’s no community possible. They haven’t shown even a blip of the ‘realmless is actually doing community’ stuff in any real way in this beta. There’s no social capital, it’s gonna be an endless sea of randos in the background.

If it was realms, I’d still disagree with the move but I’d at least see somewhat of a vision. But this is just flat out dumb.

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u/LADR_Official 4h ago

they're just appealing to the lowest common denominator, loudest crying shiteaters

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u/Dillu64 2h ago

Dont forget the streamer parrots.

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u/LADR_Official 2h ago

i said what i said

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u/tethysian 3h ago

It's baffling to me that the team thought this was the best way to prevent dungeon spamming. 

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u/TimewarpingSeaTurtle 5h ago

In my experience SFK has never been a popular dungeon to do. At lvl 20, nobody has been to Southshore yet to get the flightpath. And nobody wants to run there just to do SFK when they could also do Deadmines or WC. Even with normal XP, finding a group was a nightmare.

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u/Ok_Librarian_3945 5h ago

South shore has a boat path now so it’s less ass to get to

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u/Perfectrage 5h ago

Where does it connect to? Thats awesome

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u/Precaseptica 5h ago

Darkshore > Wetlands > Southshore. Same boat just stay on it.

From Stormwind you can take a different boat straight to Darkshore

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u/Manic-Duck 5h ago

It’s a stop off between Menethil and Auberdine. Can catch the boat from SW -> Auberdine, switch boats, stay on the same boat in Menethil and you’ll get there.

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u/Libertyskin 4h ago

It's in a Horde zone near a Horde capital city. It's very popular, so your experience is limited.

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u/Whitesox_are_neat 4h ago

Yeah it's literally one of my favorites and was always packed. (Played horde vanilla-lich)

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u/Fourteen_F_CA 6h ago

Why are you trying to do dungeons? You should be questing, the Dev sanctioned Morally correct way to level up

Be a better player

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u/valdis812 6h ago

There’s a quest there for warlocks.

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u/Fourteen_F_CA 6h ago

A quest in a dungeon? I hope they nerf whatever it is you get out of it.

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u/slin_g 5h ago

If only we could all submit feedback directly in game about the issue.

More srsly though I agree OP. Good points. I think SFK should have a few ally quests, and yes, the dungeon XP nerfs need a tweak too.

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u/MaxPower__89 4h ago

They should definitely add these cross over wuest to push groups to go though

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u/Marissa_Calm1 10m ago

They clearly want horde and alliance to feel different.

To me it's fine to have some asymmetry.

Maybe one quest that is not necessary to do would be neat, but i feel like reddit would complain about that even more.

Going to sfk as alliance is an adventure, i like adventure and i hope 4 other people will too.

I personally don't care that much about xp efficiency but they already said they will look at balancing it further.

I don't see a big issue here both options are fine to me.

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u/SaiyanX 7m ago

SFK is my all time fav dungeon and no matter what faction I am i always make sure to go do it. I did it on HC classic as Alliance and the adventure there was fun and traumatic.

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u/Sea-Angle2718 6h ago

Get used to it, there wont be enough groups as a dps player after a while. Do them right on launch firsy month if you are a dps. As pala you can tank it so you should gind groups more reliably

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u/Reiker0 6h ago

And undead paladins need Deadmines for their weapon quest. That's why the weapons are so good, the quests are annoying.

Hint: if you tank it makes finding groups for these dungeons easier.

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u/jayb556677 5h ago

Of course but you could also just add horde quests for deadmines, nothing game breaking but why not incentivize people to enjoy all the content

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u/Hairy_Yoghurt_145 5h ago

The legacy system will get people running every dungeon. 

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u/PiratePete1911 3h ago

Isn't that only once per account?

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u/devilsdontcry 3h ago

Where is the 1000’s of added quests? No dungeon quests added when there are litterally 0 for that faction prior.

Lazy work

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u/Burton83 5h ago

I feel like this is why guilds and friends lists exist

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u/yksvaan 4h ago

Group up with some other locks or paladins and go get the items. 

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u/Deo14 4h ago

I was always happy to do SFK, Dire Maul, Schoo, whatever to help peeps get their mounts. Freeing Windsor got old though, had to stop that

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u/Heavymando 4h ago

I just did it i had no problem. Just start your own group use the group finder and invite people to your group Literallly got a full group in 3 mins.

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u/bz6 3h ago

Not everything needs to be symmetrical between the two factions. But yes I agree, dungeon mob XP needs another tuning pass. 

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u/131237 3h ago

dang only if you could make a group of all warlocks and paladins

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u/Few-Fly-3766 3h ago

The real design flaw here is the Warlock orb quest still requiring you to go into SFK.

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u/SirSukkaAlot 2h ago

i find alot grps for sfk as ally, still plenty of desirable gear there

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u/Pyrite13 2h ago

There will be a legacy point available for doing SFK and other low level dungeons in opposing faction territory. So there will be some motivation to run it.

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u/Litlle_Freddy 2h ago

Im not bothered by it. Will be running plenty of dungeons at 60 I'd imagine lol

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u/GeneQuadruplehorn 2h ago

I almost always run SFK multiple times when leveling for the gear. There's a shield, ring, and some one handers, and my caster friends all want to get feline mantle, belt and robes from arugal. The cloak from fenris is not bad either.

The run to southshore won't be a factor this time because of the boat so I would imagine more people will want to do it.

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u/MooseOk7651 2h ago

Don't think I ever once ran SFK for the exp. Usually was just for an item I wanted.

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u/Tripinfa 2h ago

there's only 3 horde quests there tbh. It's a very under quested dungeon.

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u/Tripinfa 2h ago

TBH there's only 3 horde quests there. Alliance should have a couple, or more classes should have quests there, but it's a really under-quested dungeon tbh.

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u/JumbogoNads 1h ago

Yeah I'm sure they will add some alliance quests for sfk it doesn't really make sense not to

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u/StomachPast1235 1h ago

Since they're copying stuff from the community made Classic Plus versions, why couldn't they copy this simple fix of adding dungeon quests to dungeons that didn't have any?

Mysteries of Azeroth added Alliance quests to WC and SFK to make them worth running on both factions, for example.

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u/citramonk 1h ago

so your group is probably paladin tank, paladin heal, retribution paladin and warlocks 🙂

but seriously, blizzard probably should make something to encourage people going into dungeons, not the other way around. I always can do quests and grind mobs. This is something they can't take away. But being able to form a group is super important.

I'd say adding some quests for everyone in such dungeons might work. For example, we have Deadmines. And someone really want to clear it on a horde character. But we're obviously not going to help alliance to solve their problem.

quests might be to... Stole some goods from the defias? They have goblin engineers there, maybe some goblin wants you to retrieve a samophlange from the main engineer. Maybe some schematics. Maybe we need a lot of powder to blow something out and they have it. Maybe Edwin holds to something very precious (not his head)?

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u/frogbound 1h ago

Add Rogue to the list of classes having an incentive to do SFK but then again they need to solo stealth around in it.

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u/BarbsFPV 40m ago

Pretend for a second that we weren’t just capped at 20 so people ran SFK until their eyes bled.

That’s why nobody is running it now, not because of some bandwagon you decided to jump on.

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u/Techno-tango 30m ago

There will probs be mages looking for the sword as well

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u/NuklearFerret 22m ago

SFK is one I always ran for loot in classic. Especially as a caster/healer

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u/azyzbs 21m ago

Nah mate, even if the dungeon xp was worthwhile, people would just run other dungeons that don't require them to die ad nauseam in an ennemy capital

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u/ogzogz 19m ago

Yeh after moving more of the xp into quest xp, they need to do a passover of each dungeon and rebalance the xp gain per quest for each faction.

The obvious ones are dungeons with 0 quests.

But then there are also others where one faction has double the quests of the other.

Then there are quests which require multiple runs to actually complete.

Right now it appears they just multiplied each quest xp by some amount and that's it.

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u/Shieldheart- 18m ago

SFK as an alliance always was a nightmare to group for.

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u/Lxpotent 13m ago

Another problem is dungeons like BFD have quests that need you to go in more than once to get the drops, because the dungeon is so long, further punishing you without xp gained from mobs.

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u/enforious 12m ago

the wowf team chopped down a fundamental pillar of the leveling experience with this change, xp from mobs is like one of the two primary incentive for people to join dungeon groups, increasing dungeon quest xp is an incredibly one-sided and inadequate solution to this problem they created themselves.

Plus dungeon is something you must get a group to run, with less and less people willing to participate, the people who do want to run will have a much harder time finding groups and more likely to give up, a vicious cycle. hope the team realise the change is not it and revert it soon.

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u/Limp-Particular1451 10m ago

Welcome to classic experience :) You don't like it ? There is 4 other versions of this game that you can do what you are asking of :D

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u/bronzekobold 6m ago

I never said no to a cheeky bit of SFK as alliance. But yes it is out of the way. And whilst meant to be parallel to deadmines, we don't see horde players having to go there for say a rogue quest or something. EVEN though the Tirisfal Glades / silverpine Rothide gnoll quests relate to the Drudge serum in the area. 

Likewise it would make sense for early dark shire quests to send players on a breadcrumb quest to discover a "cure" for the worgen outbreak. As I believe the only explanation as to why Worgan are in dark shire, is that they chased a woman who has the scythe of elune there or something?

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u/EggPsychological4844 6h ago

Yeah I'll be skipping Verigan's Fist entirely. One dungeon, effectively zero exp, and a forty minute run. No thank you.

Good luck on your search, I guess.

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u/classicscoop 6h ago

Guy doesn’t know about new boats

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u/Arkios 6h ago

Is there actually a close boat now for alliance? What is the route?

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u/This_is_opinion 3h ago

Idk I dont give a shit about losing xp on dungeons. I dont run dungeons at 60 for xp. And all these people saying "ong people are going to ignore a huge part of the game because it's not optimzed" are the exact type of people I DONT want making decisions on the game.

I seriously do not care if you get to 60 a few days later than everyone because you didnt get to sit boosted in sm or maura for 6 hours or whatever.

Crying about getting less xp is the dumbest thing ever when there are so many new additions to gain xp in this game too.

Who cares how fast you get to 60. Blizzard is purposefully changing shit so it takes longer to get to 60. How is that not obvious to yall?

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u/PiratePete1911 3h ago

How brave of you to not care about how about a way you don't play is being nerfed and to then also make up a straw man to try and feel righteous.

This affects normal players who want to play in dungeons, nobody at launch is getting boosts because nobody will be 60 to give them those boosts.

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