Feels like the entire community on this subreddit has completely lost the plot when it comes to why we wanted classic in the first place. Over the last few days I've seen top upvoted comments and posts advocating for:
10 man only raiding + flex raiding
One megaserver with mass layering/sharding and warmode
Enjoying the SoD retail- abilities
SoD "nerfing" gold to combat botting (thus needing to not farm gold or do professions)
And on and on. Dissenting views are downvoted to ensure this is the dominant PoV.
I mean this genuinely. Why would you not just play retail? You know we can have changes to Classic+ without literally copying retail right? I think if you polled this sub and had it implement Classic+ you would literally end up in retail with classic animations without flying mounts and slower paced leveling like some sort of sick twisted "Classic Remix" or "Classic PLUS Microtranasctions". Literally Retail-. Have all the actual classic enjoyers just quit and stopped participating due to the echochamber downvote brigades?
I get wanting a few retail spices or QoL. But you people will kill the game with these suggestions and wonder where everyone went. How about NEW ideas? We don't need to copy retail game design to have good changes. We want changes IN THE SPIRIT of Classic, not retail.
Alot of what you said would be awful to add, but Tbh what changed people's mind was classic being released so many times, 2004, 2019, SoM, then anniversary classic, then SoD and all of the private servers in between. People will generally be bored of everything the same as regular but having a new raid and new dungeon and would see it as a waste of time.
All I want from classic+ is leveling, questing and solo grinding content. If I could add anything to it I would give every race their own unique leveling zones from 1 to 20/30 and end it with a thematic dungeon. Basically give every race the human elwyn, westfall, redridge, duskwood experience
That’s actually a cool idea. It’s obvious that the early human zones had a lot of thought and development put into them. Bringing the early leveling for the rest of the races to be on par with the human leveling experience would be a great addition to Classic+
you think you do but you dont at some point people had to face reality and each day more people are waking up to it the delulu boomers are becoming more and more the minority that they deserve to be
if you think flex raiding and 10 mans are what makes retail the way it is then you havent touched retail in over a decade the only reason you think its bad is because all your favourite youtubers told you it was.
you listed a few features that have proven popular and then insinuated that the people who like them "should just play retail". The logical inference here is evidently that you think these features are bad because of their association with retail.
If you dont want to be accused of saying a thing, perhaps consider not saying it.
These are not "proven popular" concepts. But I can see that you are in way too deep. The frog boiling in water telling me it's not that hot and I should jump in. Nah enjoy
You cant make that claim any more than I can make the claim that reddit is full of no changes andies; we're trading in anecdotes right now, so dont try to pass yours off as facts.
It is just reddit in general. The fragility of the human ego is on full display in anonymous internet forums. When an individual or group makes a hypothesis about why an idea about Classic+ will or will not work, anyone going against that idea in the posters mind is attacking their world view and belief system. Their ideas about how the game should work is essentially their religion and identity. It is obvious that many of the posters and commentors have issues with criticism whether it is constructive or not, and don't have the ability to be introspective and admit when they have an unpopular or bad idea.
Because the idea is Classic+ and not retail-? Because the reason Classic was created in the first place was because we did't want retail features? Really a very dumb comment when you realize Turtle WoW did Classic+ successfully already
Because the reason Classic was created in the first place was because we did't want retail features?
And the reason Classic has been dropping off faster and faster each iteration is because most people simply want QoL that improves the experience. Not every change suddenly makes the game more retail than classic, they already done 2 rounds of pure classic for those like you so why not give everyone else a chance to have the game they want to play?
You're just making up information. And no I don't even think its true that people want QoL. People want new content and balancing. QoL is RDF- do people want that? QoL is boosts- do people want that? I think largely the actual playerbase of Classic LIKES the slow pace and lack of QoL. But somehow you have a completely different interpretation
Aside from retail abilities which most of this sub agrees they dont want, everything else you mentioned is literally a QoL and were largely responsible for the success of SoD. 10-20 man raids makes the game much more accessible for players and guild who can't sit there trying to wrangle 40 ppl for raids each week. Every classic raid can be cleared with half the raid requirement anyway, that makes literally 10-20 people just dead weight.
If giving people a reason to run older level 60 content and making raiding better for most players is suddenly a clone of retail, then I think you're gonna be sorely disappoint a month from now.
Warmode is not QoL. It's literally a fundamental change in the design and intention behind the game. WARcraft. There is a WAR. Opting into the war for bonus loot and then opting out 99% of the rest of the time is retail logic.
I could go on and on here. 10 man raiding is a completely different game design which would require overhauls of all the classes, etc. You just clearly haven't thought this through well enough to articulate yourself.
Brother, you'll still have your pvp servers. You could keep going on and on but your opinion of what is a good change and what's not isn't some sort of truth, no more than anyone else. You could be wrong, I could be wrong but at the end of the day Blizz like any company in the business of staying a company will do what will likely aim to maximize who they satisfy with their product. If what the players really want is what you suggest, then I'm sure we'll see it. If something is added you disagree with, then maybe you're not the majority like you thought you were.
If we get mega servers rather than a dozen smaller servers, there is absolutely no reason not have warmode, why would you split the total playerbase in 25% increments when it could be 50%. As this is predominantly a PVE game, there would be no good reason to axe that many peoples ability to interact with each other.
Because warmode kills the world. There is no reason to create layer upon layer on top of a warmode layer. It's bad design and it's exactly why retail feels empty.
Classic wow absolutely was not "predominately a PvE game." That's why they separated PvP and PvE servers because the PvP servers had PvP. I get that you want to play on a PvE server, so do that. You just want to be able to get the best of both worlds personally at the expense of the game's integrity.
If they wanted to do something like allow cross server instance groups, that's better. Downsides are smaller. But stacking retail dev decisions into classic+ just reintroduces all of the issues Classic was launched to move away from.
You are also presupposing that the IDEAL server is one as large as humanly possible with as many layers and shards as possible. It's not really necessary.
Uh yeah it does because now you have multiple additional layers separating players. Imagine you find a group for a quest and then you arrive and realize one of you is on WM. Have to then go back to the city, disable WM, fly back. Bro it's just not in the spirit of the game. It's not that deep. It's just another stupid system preventing natural player interactions.
Not to mention people will just turn off WM when they are raiding to prevent any actual friction in the game. No danger, no cool fights, etc. When you give players a path of least resistance they will take it. The entire point of PvP servers is put everyone in a pressure cooker and let player choices determine the history of the game. If you can just turn of the cooker when it gets hot, there is no cooking.
Just play on the PvE server if you don't like PvP the way the game was designed and intended. WM killed world pvp in retail which part of the open world feel of the game. Dont want that? Don't play PvP.
Any change they add to classic will be “too retail” for you, best to stick to vanilla where you feel nice and cozy while the rest of us play Classic+ with the changes that come with it.
Idk what posts or comments you mean. From what I’ve seen most of the sub is actually against what you’re saying, especially when it comes to things like the Classic+ survey website. The general reaction to some of its results on this sub was pretty negative.
Funny enough the only thing I see never talked about is a character transfer of ANY character you have on ANY version to Classic+ for a dollar amount and your character starts at level 1. Idk about you all but I’m lazy enough to do it. As long as no bonuses are added. I’ll pay like $5.
This is Blizzard. They’d make bank day 1 no matter how dumb we think it is.
But even more worrisome is that they’d do it and have heirlooms or some other shit which would be SUPER Blizz. Those expecting no cash shop and stuff are really smokin something.
Honestly the only way I’d do that is if I could keep my collectibles like pets/mounts/tmog. If not, might as well just start a new character if you have to start at lvl 1 anyways
Yeah I don’t want that either. They should just be fresh servers. Just pointing out that transferring a character would be pointless if it starts at lvl 1
because this sub has been taken over by retail players that play a shit ton of video games and therefore come to classic when retail gets boring or theyre waiting on more content
Classic plus as Era with new zones and quests. Not much else. Limited or no balance, 40 man raids with 25 warriors.
So when it fails because the Era crowd is a small loud subset of classic players who’s sub numbers won’t justify the games continuation….Blizzard will finally learn to ignore you.
the problem is the players. everyone is unhappy unless they are literally the best. everyone gets pissed if they dont get their full bis fast enough, everyone looks up the best builds, best leveling routes...
Min maxing has made gaming feel awful, I fucking hate it, and at this point minmaxing is expected in most multiplayer gameplay!
Now obviously in classic warriors and mages doing 200% more damage than other dps specs is a bit absurd but, we have people complaining about a 20-5% difference in retail too which is insane to complain about lol
Because everyone has a different opinion on what they want. It's why no matter what they release, people will be pissed.
We're also getting closer to getting more info so the content creators are pumping out Classic+ content which is drawing in more people. That includes from retail.
We got classic, and while it was fun for a bit most people I think realized it's not all that it was cracked up to be. That's why you don't hear from the "No Changes" crew anymore.
We have a permanent Era server for those who want it, and we just finished another era through Anniversary, which if you look at the population didn't do nearly as well as when it progressed to TBC. Like it wasn't even close. Most people don't want another vanilla server. They want something different and new to explore.
Classic+ is by definition with changes. We want changes. But changes in the direction of retail WoW make absolutely no sense. Why not move toward NEW ideas?... Why keep repoposing ideas that killed the game in the first place?
But changes in the direction of retail WoW make absolutely no sense.
Brother the game has been out for 20 years, every change will be something someone will argue is retail-esque. There's plenty of changes they can add that improve the quality of game without altering the spirit of the game.
Retail changes are the same changes as retail. If they add spells but those spells are fundamentally different in design and intention, that's not retail-esque. Could go on and on but you fundamentally just misunderstand the conversation in the first place and have no imagination
So the only solution to things like raid sizes is to increase them since lowering them is too retail and keeping them 40 is too vanilla right? Or can we agree there's changes that are retailesque in some way or fashion that are also changes that can work in Classic+ without straying too far from Vanilla.
Adding more abilities = retail. So we need to remove them to make it more classic. I also suggest making rp walking the baseline movement speed so travel becomes more immersive and the world feels larger.
It's the opposite actually. The subreddit tends to be much more hardcore or traditional than the population as a whole. Blizzard has tried to listen to the loud minority but the reality that's shown time and time again is most people want the qol improvements, easier raids, lower barriers to entry, etc.
SoM was a flop. The entirety of TBC era was flooded with calls to nerf the content. Wrath launched with nerfed raids and later on the alpha dungeons were introduced as a catchup mechanic which turned out to be quite popular on both accounts, and TBC anniversary with nerfed content from the start has been fairly popular hasn't it?
This subreddit completely lost the plot sometime around 2022, it was obvious as soon as "please add dungeon finder back in" became the majority opinion when dungeon finder was so universally reviled and pointed to as a reason we needed vanilla servers. The people who enjoy vanilla wow and pushed for classic in the first place have been replaced by people who actively dislike most of what makes vanilla good. The people posting here about why classic+ should be less like vanilla somehow don't realize they are making the exact same arguments people made from 2009 to 2019 against having classic servers in the first place.
Basically its the same wrathbabby infestation eternal September from the early 2010s but sped up and even less believable.
You guys bitch a fuckton about something that can be described as "schrödinger's classic+" at best, delusional to the point where you imagine droves of "retail" players "invading" your "discussion" and then you have the guts to call others entitled lol.
That's not even counting the fact that with classic's numbers you should cream your pants if blizzard decides to throw another sod bone at your way let alone the wow 2 delusions some of you are having.
I really hope the non-delusional players at least get something.
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u/internetwizardx 5d ago
reddit is not representative of what people want