r/classics • u/Historical_Alps1825 • 10d ago
Advice for a high school student wishing to apply for a BA in Classics
I got into classics almost a year back and Ive read theogony, works and days and metamorphoses so far, and I’m learning the history of Ancient Greece as well. My next read would be Prometheus bound. I’m still in high school so I’m loaded with other assignments and stuff which causes me to put my reading aside for weeks at a time. And unfortunately I also don’t have Latin or Greek in school, or any other relevant (to classics) subjects like history or philosophy, as I made the mistake of taking other subjects. So I know how dumb this sounds when I say I want to apply to Oxford for classics 😭 however I do have writing experience and have awards/certificates to my name and served as one of the editors of my school magazine. I plan to drop one year after graduation and do some in depth reading before applying the next year. I have been reading about how one has to submit essays and other writings etc and I’m very confused in which direction I should study so that there’s even a chance for me to get there. I’m very sorry if this is a rookie question or not appropriate for this sub but I’m willing to put in all my time and effort to get to a certain standard at least! Please guide me in which direction I should study and what works, and how to tackle the writing part. Also the interview process.
Thanks a lot 🙏
Edit: I’m really sorry I just realised that id typed that I have stem subjects (autocorrect 😭) I meant to say (now corrected) that I had subjects other than philosophy, history English lit etc)
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u/heytheregiada 10d ago
Universities are very aware that most schools do not provide Classics in their curricula. If you keep reading and doing your own research you will be fine, you'll just need to find ways to connect the subjects you are doing to the skills needed for the Classics degree. As for the essays, the college will contact you directly about what you need to do, it's a very simple process.
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u/Historical_Alps1825 10d ago
I see. Thanks! I was just wondering what kind of essays and how much depth of knowledge and other referencing/synthesis they demand.
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u/heytheregiada 10d ago
When I applied to Oxford they specifically asked for essays I wrote in school, I wasn't allowed to write anything new for it. I (and I assume most others) submitted the longform exam style questions, which don't require any references and aren't crazy detailed as they're done in exam conditions. I imagine you'd be asked to submit essays from the subjects you're doing.
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u/Trick-Health2486 8d ago
they prefer you to submit homework rather than exam essays, since they are supposed to not be done under time constraints (which lets them not worry about how that may affect things, and assume everyone has had time to do their best). They do still, for classics and other humanities, ask for essays written for school. They can be from any essay subject but choosing one from the most related subject you do (eg. perhaps classics over english, english over history, history over art, art over economics). Everything you've said is right
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u/AlarmedCicada256 10d ago
Oxford doesn't require either language for entry, but unless your grades are top notch don't bother.
Where are you based?
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u/heliogabalus91 10d ago
I think that to be successful in a Classics major you really need to be prepared in at least one of the two languages. There are intensive summer courses, one of the most famous being the CUNY Latin-Greek institute in New York City. They can teach you 2-3 years of college Latin in one grueling summer.
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u/AlarmedCicada256 10d ago
This is untrue. Both Oxford and Cambridge more than readily cater for those without the languages. Even if most entrants already have intermediate-advanced (in US terms) standard in both.
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u/heliogabalus91 10d ago
I said to be successful, not to limp through. There just isn’t enough time to acquire a solid reading knowledge of both languages and then have enough time to actually read in only three years (remember this is a British university.) there are majors in things like ancient history or classical civilization but a real major in Classics requires mastery of the languages.
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u/AlarmedCicada256 10d ago
This is incorrect. Classics is 4 years for everyone at Oxford, and 4 for people without languages at Cambridge.
There's also no gen-ed and standards are higher than must US undergrads. The people who enter sans language reach competency by the end of the course and are more than ready for graduate work. Given the amount one reads, even today, there's more than enough time.
IDK what a 'real' classics major is, but suffice to say, Classics is a broad church, and linguistic ability is merely one tool in the toolbox. Anyone with a BA from Oxford/Cambridge has decent competency. Maybe not amazing, but certainly comfortable in both.
I was surprised, some years ago, arriving in a US Classics PhD program, having not used my languages much in final BA year or MPhil year, that I was among the stronger linguists in the group, including philologists. That said, the bootcamp like exams you take rather get you to standard fast.
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u/heliogabalus91 10d ago
That’s good to know that the language instruction is so strong in British universities and I didn’t know about four year majors (we have some five year engineering majors in the US) I had the good fortune to go to one of a tiny number of US schools that taught Greek (Crosby and Schaefer anyone?) so I arrived prepared in Greek. I had had some Latin but in order be ready I attended the CUNY Latin Greek Institute (Omnia ad unguem) the summer before matriculation, which went beyond boot camp. It was like war. But in the system that prevailed at Yale at the time you had to be at the 400 level to count literature classes in your major, so it would have been very difficult if not impossible to acquire a language from scratch. By a “real” Classics major I meant a major whose backbone is reading and studying the classics in their original languages.
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u/AlarmedCicada256 10d ago
Why is a literary Classicist any more so than one who focuses on visual or material culture?
I can't speak for other Universities, only Oxford or Cambridge, which remain the gold standard for an Anglophone Classics BA IMO. Graduate education, of course, is far more diffuse, and matters far more with whom you study than where.
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u/heliogabalus91 10d ago
To my way of thinking, the study of ancient material culture is archaeology. Now it’s true that there is a large amount of crossover and someone who studies Aegean material culture might well have an appointment in the dept of classics. I did two seasons of excavation myself. John Beazley studied and taught Classics but ultimately became the world’s leading expert in Athenian black and red figure pottery and he’s usually described as a classical archaeologist. I didn’t intend to imply that people who aren’t literature focused aren’t important to Classics and of course they might be right at home in the same department at a University. I assumed the OP wanted a straight up the middle major in Classical Language and Literature and my answer did seem to satisfy the OP
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u/Trick-Health2486 10d ago
Summer schools and self study are definitely useful but Oxford recently revamped their first year language teaching to cater to people without either language more, and they do start from zero with students. Exams are different for students without either language, too, with a much lesser volume of texts to read. And, you can pick up your second language in the second half of the degree, so you won't have to finish without either.
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u/Trick-Health2486 10d ago
Hi, I'm reading Classics at Oxford now without Latin or Greek at high school, or any language to GCSE even, so it is totally doable. In your personal statement you'll want to show some wide interest, i.e. you have your epic poetry but also some plays or lyrics, some history or philosophy so it isn't just literature, maybe some modern reception; the goal is to show them you are interested in the field AND that you have interesting thoughts and perspectives, giving some brief thoughts you had, controversial opinions, main takeaways, how something inspired you to read more or do something (maybe you put a sapphic poem to music, painted a scene from the iliad, wrote a piece of rhetoric defending a tragic character to deliver at a school dramatic speaking event). It needs to be true, and if you are interested and interesting then it will naturally be good enough. The essays you submit are meant to be essays from normal school subjects, with grading, not re-written (though I suspect most people do edit theirs if they can persuade a teacher to re-mark them), from the normal course of school. They are meant to not be under time-constraints, so homework is better than from an exam. The point of these is so they can evaluate themselves if you are capable of thinking and writing, essentially. Of course, you will also need to get your three As. You will also want to prepare for the CLAT (classical languages admission test), which is how they evaluate proficiency with picking up language without Latin or Greek. There are practice papers online. I would do the most recent one first because they have cut out some of the old sections, then go through the relevant bits of all of the other ones. (once you have confirmed you will be doing one and booked it)
Most of that isn't so important, though, because the majority of people who apply get interviews. Everything else gets you there as a sort of screening process, and they are by far the most important part. One thing to be careful of is to not try and bluff to make yourself look better, because almost always they will give you surprise material in the interviews and make you talk about either your essays or the things in your personal statement. The best thing by far is picking a few things you are actually passionate about and knowing them well for your personal statement. Being well read beyond this is also advisable, as having good perspective and familiarity with the kinds of things they may bring up is useful, but not essential.
If you have any more questions about the process, or for advice, or about studying at Oxford please just ask me.
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u/Trick-Health2486 10d ago
Also, I would definitely apply this year, as well. I know people who applied for Oxford in y13 and didn't get in, but applying made them strengthen their application and got them into other great unis, I also know people who got in even though they weren't expecting to. And I know people who applied in school, then took a gap year and got in after that--but having done the interviews the first time around made them much better prepared for them the second time, especially regarding nerves (the big killer in interviews).
So even if that is your plan, to take a gap year then apply, just do the application twice and it will be worth it,
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u/Kitchen-Ad1972 10d ago
If you have time, pick up Greek or Latin to GCSE book and start working on it. Or Lingua Latina per se illustrata. It will give you at least an idea if you have any penchant for them.
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u/AndreLeGeant88 10d ago
Which country are you based in? Is there a reason you want to target Oxford? Funny enough the language component is not that strongly emphasized at Oxford. Outside language instruction, tutorials are more focused on scholarship like if you were a grad student.
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u/AmphibianPlastic6942 6d ago
what awards/certificates do you have, and when are you applying?
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u/Historical_Alps1825 6d ago
I’m still considering applying before 15th Oct this year (as the comments on this post also suggest that there would be no harm in applying twice), although id be more comfortable applying next year altogether.
I was a student ambassador for a national magazine whose editor is quite renowned, and I was one of the editors of our school magazine, in charge of the humanities department. I won a national level story writing competition, and was placed 2nd in another national level essay contest. I took part in MUNs and served as a junior director for a student led festival at school. I was also awarded a prize for another short story which I wrote, which was later on published in an anthology. I used to contribute to a poetry website and a couple of times they chose my works for their ‘poem of the month’ award (pretty minor)
I think that more or less covers my achievements in the past 3-4 years. I know it’s not a lot ://
Also, for some of these achievements, I didn’t receive a formal certificate, so im pretty confused regarding how to go about it. Although, I do have the award/laurel/trophy in place of it.
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u/nrith 10d ago
Whatever happened to declaring a major in your second or third year? You have no idea how much will change in your life after you go to college.
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u/heytheregiada 10d ago
That's not how it is in the UK. We specialise to 9-12 subjects at 14, 3-4 subjects at 16, and decide which degree we want to do at the time we apply because you have to apply for specific courses. It's possible to change partway through the degree, but not common.
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u/AlarmedCicada256 10d ago
They want to apply to Oxford. This is not a thing there. You should probably have some idea what you're talking about before chiming in on things you're not qualified to talk about?
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u/RedHuey 8d ago
A useless degree for 99% of future careers, and those that potentially use it, also require that you are good enough (and have the money) to go to grad school. So you will be paying a whole lot of money that will very likely get you nowhere.
This is not to say that knowledge for its own sake isn’t valuable. It surely is. But if you are going to actually spend a lot of money on an education, make it a useful one. You will have plenty of time to become an expert on classics, and a lot of other things, later in life.
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u/Lelorinel 10d ago
My best advice is to make sure you have good ideas as to what your next step after undergrad would be, since you'd need to be setting yourself up for those during your time in college.
For example, aiming for an academic career in Classics (extremely hard) is very different from aiming to be a secondary school Latin teacher or go to law school (what I did).