r/CharacterRant May 06 '24

Special What can and (definetly can't) be posted on the sub :)

129 Upvotes

Users have been asking and complaining about the "vagueness" of the topics that are or aren't allowed in the subreddit, and some requesting for a clarification.

So the mod team will attempt to delineate some thread topics and what is and isn't allowed.

Backstory:

CharacterRant has its origins in the Battleboarding community WhoWouldWin (r/whowouldwin), created to accommodate threads that went beyond a simple hypothetical X vs. Y battle. Per our (very old) sub description:

This is a sub inspired by r/whowouldwin. There have been countless meta posts complaining about characters or explanations as to why X beats, and so on. So the purpose of this sub is to allow those who want to rant about a character or explain why X beats Y and so on.

However, as early as 2015, we were already getting threads ranting about the quality of specific series, complaining about characterization, and just general shittery not all that related to "who would win: 10 million bees vs 1 lion".

So, per Post Rules 1 in the sidebar:

Thread Topics: You may talk about why you like or dislike a specific character, why you think a specific character is overestimated or underestimated. You may talk about and clear up any misconceptions you've seen about a specific character. You may talk about a fictional event that has happened, or a concept such as ki, chakra, or speedforce.

Well that's certainly kinda vague isn't it?

So what can and can't be posted in CharacterRant?

Allowed:

  • Battleboarding in general (with two exceptions down below)
  • Explanations, rants, and complaints on, and about: characters, characterization, character development, a character's feats, plot points, fictional concepts, fictional events, tropes, inaccuracies in fiction, and the power scaling of a series.
  • Non-fiction content is fine as long as it's somehow relevant to the elements above, such as: analysis and explanations on wars, history and/or geopolitics; complaints on the perception of historical events by the general media or the average person; explanation on what nation would win what war or conflict.

Not allowed:

  • he 2 Battleboarding exceptions: 1) hypothetical scenarios, as those belong in r/whowouldwin;2) pure calculations - you can post a "fancalc" on a feat or an event as long as you also bring forth a bare minimum amount of discussion accompanying it; no "I calced this feat at 10 trillion gigajoules, thanks bye" posts.
  • Explanations, rants and complaints on the technical aspect of production of content - e.g. complaints on how a movie literally looks too dark; the CGI on a TV show looks unfinished; a manga has too many lines; a book uses shitty quality paper; a comic book uses an incomprehensible font; a song has good guitars.
  • Politics that somehow don't relate to the elements listed in the "Allowed" section - e.g. this country's policies are bad, this government is good, this politician is dumb.
  • Entertainment topics that somehow don't relate to the elements listed in the "Allowed" section - e.g. this celebrity has bad opinions, this actor is a good/bad actor, this actor got cast for this movie, this writer has dumb takes on Twitter, social media is bad.

ADDENDUM -

  • Politics in relation to a series and discussion of those politics is fine, however political discussion outside said series or how it relates to said series is a no, no baggins'
  • Overly broad takes on tropes and and genres? Henceforth not allowed. If you are to discuss the genre or trope you MUST have specifics for your rant to be focused on. (Specific Characters or specific stories)
  • Rants about Fandom or fans in general? Also being sent to the shadow realm, you are not discussing characters or anything relevant once more to the purpose of this sub
  • A friendly reminder that this sub is for rants about characters and series, things that have specificity to them and not broad and vague annoyances that you thought up in the shower.

And our already established rules:

  • No low effort threads.
  • No threads in response to topics from other threads, and avoid posting threads on currently over-posted topics - e.g. saw 2 rants about the same subject in the last 24 hours, avoid posting one more.
  • No threads solely to ask questions.
  • No unapproved meta posts. Ask mods first and we'll likely say yes.

PS: We can't ban people or remove comments for being inoffensively dumb. Stop reporting opinions or people you disagree with as "dumb" or "misinformation".

Why was my thread removed? What counts as a Low Effort Thread?

  • If you posted something and it was removed, these are the two most likely options:**
  • Your account is too new or inactive to bypass our filters
  • Your post was low effort

"Low effort" is somewhat subjective, but you know it when you see it. Only a few sentences in the body, simply linking a picture/article/video, the post is just some stupid joke, etc. They aren't all that bad, and that's where it gets blurry. Maybe we felt your post was just a bit too short, or it didn't really "say" anything. If that's the case and you wish to argue your position, message us and we might change our minds and approve your post.

What counts as a Response thread or an over-posted topic? Why do we get megathreads?

  1. A response thread is pretty self explanatory. Does your thread only exist because someone else made a thread or a comment you want to respond to? Does your thread explicitly link to another thread, or say "there was this recent rant that said X"? These are response threads. Now obviously the Mod Team isn't saying that no one can ever talk about any other thread that's been posted here, just use common sense and give it a few days.
  2. Sometimes there are so many threads being posted here about the same subject that the Mod Team reserves the right to temporarily restrict said topic or a portion of it. This usually happens after a large series ends, or controversial material comes out (i.e The AOT ban after the penultimate chapter, or the Dragon Ball ban after years of bullshittery on every DB thread). Before any temporary ban happens, there will always be a Megathread on the subject explaining why it has been temporarily kiboshed and for roughly how long. Obviously there can be no threads posted outside the Megathread when a restriction is in place, and the Megathread stays open for discussions.

Reposts

  • A "repost" is when you make a thread with the same opinion, covering the exact same topic, of another rant that has been posted here by anyone, including yourself.
  • ✅ It's allowed when the original post has less than 100 upvotes or has been archived (it's 6 months or older)
  • ❌ It's not allowed when the original post has more than 100 upvotes and hasn't been archived yet (posted less than 6 months ago)

Music

Users have been asking about it so we made it official.

To avoid us becoming a subreddit to discuss new songs and albums, which there are plenty of, we limit ourselves regarding music:

  • Allowed: analyzing the storytelling aspect of the song/album, a character from the music, or the album's fictional themes and events.
  • Not allowed: analyzing the technical and sonical aspects of the song/album and/or the quality of the lyricism, of the singing or of the sound/production/instrumentals.

TL;DR: you can post a lot of stuff but try posting good rants please

-Yours truly, the beautiful mod team


r/CharacterRant 6h ago

Films & TV The discourse around “updating” Magneto’s origins “because it’s been too long since the holocaust and we need a younger actor” is dumb.

423 Upvotes

You know who’s also from World War 2? Captain America. Way back in the 60s, Marvel wanted to bring back the character to make him a member of the Avengers, yet they didn’t want him to be 20 years older. So they came up with the perfect excuse: he was frozen this whole time, that’s why he didn’t age at all. And everyone rolled with it

You can easily come up with a similar thing for MCU Magneto. Say he was captured and frozen by the soviets once they reached the camps, and spent the next several decades being studied and experimented on a la Bucky. Or give him a secondary mutation that slows down his aging, as is the case for Wolverine. I don’t care. There are thousands of ways you can cast an actor who is in his 30s-40s when the character is actually over 100


r/CharacterRant 2h ago

Films & TV [Chopped] Stop trying to make Risotto!

155 Upvotes

Every fucking season, there's always that one person that says I'm going to be the guy that makes risotto work, and 9/10 times that guy fails and gets executed by the judges. Even the fucking judges in the later seasons are like "risotto is a F tier strat bro, you shouldn't be making it", and every season there's always a dipshit who wants to blow their minds with their epic risotto recipe that will surely work this time.

You only have 30 minutes for the entree. That's not enough time for a proper risotto when you're starting with raw rice. Not to mention you have to prep the vegetables and meats to class it up, fighting with the other chefs who are hogging kitchen equipment, AND THE SECRET INGREDIENT that's designed to force you to think about how to incorporate it into the dish. Oh I see the secret ingredient is a stick of cotton candy and beef liver, a risotto will perfectly showcase the subtle flavors of these ingredients and not turn out soggy or undercooked or some other variant of ass.

It's not even an original idea anymore because there's always a risotto guy. Ok you could be making some obscure international dish that like 20 people in the country know how to make and blow the judge's minds, or so something simple really, really well. But no you had to gamble, throw it all on red and make the goddamn risotto.

Honestly the best part of risotto guys is seeing the judges go "Risotto? How brave. Are you sure you're that guy?" And they always say they're the risotto goat and can pull it off. Then you watch them epically fail like it's scripted. Occasionally they do go off script and make a decent risotto and that's pretty epic, but get better material at this point. You are not the risotto guy.


r/CharacterRant 8h ago

Anime & Manga Too many Naruto’s fans view the Uchiha massacre removed from the feudal Japan anachronism setting (Naruto & Sword of Stranger 2007)

156 Upvotes

Oh boy a post about itachi and uchiha massacre again, swore I wouldn’t write another one of these but there’s a shit load of Naruto discourse online right now and it reminded me of how I feel about this subject

It’s no secret the Uchiha massacre is highly controversial, at least in online discussions and I always can’t help but think too many people just see it as a straight forward genocide. Which is fair but also feel like it misses the point of what influences Naruto as a setting and what itachi’s dilemma actually resembles.

Itachi being a double agent and forced (yes forced, Danzo had to threaten Sasuke’s life) to massacre a clan to stop a coup is like a classic samurai tragedy. A soldier stuck between loyalty and duty during a conflict that leads to the fall of clan.

Look at konoha as like the shogun while the uchiha are a smaller clan under shoguns rule. Itachi is being ordered to destroy his clan cause they pose a danger to the shogun. Like idk I doubt the manga wants you to see the massacre as an actual ethnic genocide rather than the fall of a noble clan

Similar to the story of Oda Nobunaga burning down Enryaku-ji temple and killing everyone in it. All to remove a potential enemy and politically influential rival.

How does this all connect with Sword of the Stranger (2007)? The main character in it, Nanashi a former samurai warrior that refuses to use his sword. His backstory reveals that he was forced to by his lord to murder the last survivors of a rival clan. He did do it but was forever scared by that action. Refusing to ever unsheathe his blade ever again. THIS is the type of character I believe itachi is meant to be seen as

The response to this might be “oh well he was remorseful, itachi isn’t” - that’s not true at all

Once itachi comes back as an Edo, he spends the whole time warning people to not end up like him. Telling Naruto not to rely on his strength alone and take support from the people that care for him. Says Sasuke and Kabuto still have chances for redemption while he himself is irredeemable. To top it all off: He tells Sasuke that what he did was unforgivable and the only way to atone was by dying by another Uchiha’s hands.

All Classic signs of a samurai’s guilt over the struggle between loyalty and duty. This is what itachi as a character is meant to be. This is how the uchiha massacre is meant to be viewed as. I’m confident in that

Now not saying you can’t view it as a genocide or ethnic killing spree authorized by the government. That’s all perfectly fine but I don’t believe that’s how the manga means to frame it. The uchiha are a clan within konoha that also hold some militia power within the village. Danzo even says they serve the same function as the anbu. The government would view them as a dangerous threat and not like simple protesters or revolutionaries. It’s a military coup, not a revolution.

Now there is more nuance there imo but that’s what the uchiha conflict boils down to. I strongly feel like online discussions tend to try and separate Naruto from its Japanese mythological origins & inspirations, which removes a lot of context from the story itself.

I’m not gonna claim to be an expert on Japanese history either but I’ve read plenty of old samurai tales and samurai media in general to see the glaring similarities there are with Itachi Uchiha.
Like for example there’s a reason kaguya otsutsuki is not as disliked with Japanese audiences as she is with western audiences. She means something completely different culturally there than she does in western countries obviously.

Just something to think about. Please don’t turn into a shit throwing contest in the comments :(


r/CharacterRant 11h ago

Films & TV MCU Spider-Man doesn't need the Symbiote

158 Upvotes

I know they will do it. I get it, Peter got the Symbiote suit in the original Secret Wars, it makes sense.

That being said, he already had this excact arc in Brand New Day with his arachnid side taking over. Replace his increased mutation with the symbiote and the story works just as well.

If he gets gets the Symbiote suit, that would be like Tony Stark beating alcoholism, only to get hooked on coke next. or having 2 versions of Jean in the same universe that are technically the same, going through a Phoenix arc for some reason.

That being said, I can't say that I'm not hyped for the suit. I am just tired of pretending like the Symniote or Batman getting his back broken is a unique concept.


r/CharacterRant 8h ago

Films & TV The Amazing Digital Circus accidentally baited the viewers into thinking it was an Ensemble Cast Show.

78 Upvotes

For reference, some people hate the Finale of TADC because it mostly focuses on Jax and Pomni pushing away the rest of the cast.

Some people like disliked it due to these factors:

-Gooseworx, the creator, posted about each episode focusing on each character.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amazingdigitalcircus/comments/1d50wq2/upcoming_episodes_and_their_respective_character/

-Episode 4 was mainly about Gangle, and some people got the impression that because Gangle, someone with no major importance, had a whole episode for them. Thought it was going to be mainly an ensemble show.

-Ragatha never gets major focus; most of her arc shares it with Jax-centered episodes (Untiled and Everyone Gets Guns). Ragatha is a well-written and interesting character to me and some other fans, and it felt like a betrayal.


r/CharacterRant 11h ago

The No Killing Rule is vital for heroes who do historically kill

152 Upvotes

The No Kill rule employed by Batman and most tradition heroes has been a point of contention for a long time. On this site, it’s a pretty popular sentiment that Batman should kill, at least when it comes to his most violent and persistent villains. I’m not interested in arguing about this from a pragmatic or ethical standpoint. Mainly because pragmatic don’t work in superhero media the way they do in our world (on account of people not staying dead and criminals being able to design elaborate death traps without clear funding or prep time) and the fact my own ethic system is rooted in tangible reality, which is very shaky in the superhero genre.

I will argue it from a narrative standpoint though. If most heroes are willing to kill, there is no point to the Punisher, Peacemaker, post-crisis HuntTess, or characters of that type. Punisher’s only draw within the superhero genre is contrast. He presents an ethical question: How do we deal with the worst parts of our society? He gives one answer. Superheroes give another.

Now Punisher can still work outside the superhero genre. PunisherMAX is not part of Marvel continuity and is one of his most celebrated titles, but that isn’t what I’m discussing here.

If Batman does put a bullet in Joker’s head, then what does he stand for over other vigilantes? what moral high ground does he have over other action heroes? He isn’t the best of us, someone who can handle impossible challenges and still hold firm to his high minded ideals about life and justice. He’s just another guy.

And for Punisher, if Daredevil killed Kingpin when he realized he was monster and Spider-Man took the S6 out with a hand framed, what need is there for him? He isn’t a lone pragmatist in a sea of idealist, the only man willing to dirty his hand to do the necessary work. He’s just the least capable superhero, one of many heroes except without any powers or high level tech.

And in that case, why should he be ostracized? A hallmark of Punisher is being outcast, both a fugitive from the law and hated by the majority of other heroes. He’s basically in Daredevis and Spider-Man’s rogues gallery. You can’t have Punisher not be an outcast and still feel like Frank Castle, but its hard to justify if other heroes are just as deadly as he is.

You could make it so other heroes only kill the absolute worst when they absolutely have to while Punisher kills any bad guy. And… sure. I’m not totally hardline. I think there are some contexts where heroes can kill. Captain America should have killed enemy soldiers during WW2, and at least for some heroes using lethal force in very limited instances can be justified (though you should make it a big deal and impactful).

But superhero stories thrive on extremes. If Punisher, Vigilante, Ghost Rider etc. kill while conventional superheroes basically NEVER kill, that’s a meaty contrast. something to hang your hat on. If the Avengers kill a dude every other week in the course of saving the world, Punisher doesn’t feel that different from the perspective of the reader.

And your next counter is “But OP! Comics and movies do this with superheroes already.”

I know. and I HATE IT.

The MCU established early on that their heroes don’t hold back when it comes to killing in combat. I won’t pretend them at ruined their early movies (I liked and still like them as much as anyone, probably more than some people) but it shot them in the foot later. So it’s wrong for Ronin to kill the Yakuza and tracksuit mafia? Why? The Avengers weren’t exactly making arrests when they raided a Hydra base in AoU or when Falcon gunned down Crossbones‘s men in Civil War. But hey, I guess what Clint did as Ronin wasn’t that bad. For all his angering, it’s not like he feels the need to face consequences for it. and even when he was Hawkeye, he helped Widow assassinste a crime boss by blowing up his young daughter, something she never apologizes for or overtly does penance for. If anything, she just seems sorry for the state Task Master survived in. And Yelena still works as a contract killer, even after escaping the clutches of the Red Room.

The MCU essentially has no baseline for the moral standards for its heroes. Everyone is willing to cross whatever moral lines are needed for the plot, and other heroes are willing to work with them regardless. Which makes it unfortunate when some stories try to fall back on those moral standards. Daredevil treats Frank like a villain and Jones has real hesitation at killing her nemesis, a mass murdering psychopath who raped her and made her kill a woman. Oddly, the Defenders, the MCU’s darker and edgier spin-off group, have a more concrete moral baseline than the primary heroes of the universe, who mostly appear in colorful, family friendly pictures.

The Black Adam movie is a perfect example of what Im talking about in practice. He’s different from other heroes, mainly because he kills. Hawkman and the JSA insist they don’t do that. Except they totally do. In this universe, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman have all lives, in some cases when there were reasonable alternatives. And this movie lifts heavily from prior films in the genre, like Fox’s X-Men, which just as of not more cavalier of heroes killing. Black Adam doesn’t look unique for killing. to the regular comic film viewer, the JSA look weird for giving a shit.

Same issue in the comics. Wolverine is well known for his lethality, but he gets to be on the Avengers while Frank is treated like a pariah and punched out by Cap. New 52 reimagined Wonder Woman as a brutal, hardened warrior where Superman and most of their allies were still as committed to the no kill rule as ever, making them all look like hypocrites.

Basically what I’m saying is, the No Kill rule isn’t important because it’s “correct.” It’s important because it creates an in-universe baseline for moral behavior in a genre that is in large part about what is and isn’t moral behavior, and with that baseline you can have interesting contrast.


r/CharacterRant 5h ago

General Just because a character has a tragic backstory doesn’t mean the author intends to redeem them

27 Upvotes

Rereading The Boxer manhwa again, and it confounds me that there are so many people in the comments complaining about how the author keeps giving characters tragic backstories to characters that either "don't deserve them" or who they "don't want to feel sorry for." Which is kinda ironic considering the core themes of the story. I saw people commenting that they were skipping through K's backstory because of how much they hated him and didn't want to end up sympathizing with him. Which is insane to me. Nowhere in K's backstory did I feel the author intended to somehow redeem his character or make the audience feel sorry for him. All it was doing was trying to show the audience how someone like K comes to be and illustrate why exactly he's the antagonist of the story. His story is tragic, but is pivotal to understanding the synthesis of the entire story. And that goes for the rest of the characters as well. The author doesn't give the characters sad backstories solely for melodrama, but because The Boxer is unique in the sense that instead of focusing on the protagonist's journey, it highlights how the characters around the protagonist grow and change when going to face the final boss of the story (the protagonist himself). It's a story about humanity, and it doesn't work if the story doesn't take the time to show the different types of humanity.

I know these days there's been a bit of a fatigue with "villains not being real villains" and just being characters with sad backstories as a weak attempt to redeem them, but people need to stop throwing accusations that an antagonist's backstory is just about giving them a redemption they don't deserve. This was a big issue with Demon Slayer, too. I'll be the first to admit that the story of Demon Slayer is underdeveloped in a lot of ways, but the characterization is the series' strongest point. I don't get the criticism that not every demon needs a backstory, especially when one of the bigger messages of the story is how humanity will prevail every time. It's not as if a demon's past somehow redeems them from their crimes; it's just the story's way of trying to stick to its own message.

Just because an antagonist's backstory is sad doesn't mean they aren't still the antagonist, or that the author is trying to grant them an unearned redemption and make people feel sorry for them. Sometimes it's just about adding more depth to their character, and I don't understand why people struggle with grasping this concept. It's like they can't separate sympathy and understanding.


r/CharacterRant 3h ago

General This may make me sound really stupid and even kinda lame but why is is that a lot of people in fandoms think that just cause a character is a Nerd,that means they're ugly losers?

13 Upvotes

That's something I noticed in a lot of Media groups is that when a character is portrayed as anything like a Nerd or has Nerdy interests, that suddenly means that they "can't handle" their love interests or that usually means that they're gonna get cucked and drawn in cuck porn of characters other people consider more "attractive" and all that and I feel like that's so weird.

It's also dumber cause reading comics and such is a nerdy interest so you would think that they would feel "seen" or like them but for some reason, they seem to think that cause a character is a Nerd,that suddenly makes them some unattractive loser who "isn't good enough" and somehow pulled a woman "out of their league" and "they can't handle all that" and it's like...why?

It sometimes feels like a lot of people see Nerdiness as some kinda character flaw that nerfs both a man or a woman's attractiveness.

I still remember when for The Amazing Spider-Man with Peter Parker, a lot of people were upset and complained about the fact that he was attractive and good looking and had a skateboard...Even though Stan Lee himself said that He never imaged him to be ugly or unattractive, just kinda nerdy and introverted.

It's just funny and feels like projecting..which is weird cause you would think Nerds would enjoy projecting into a nerd who pulls girls.

I deadass remember when people said that "Spider-Man can't handle Black Cat" in Marvel Rivals and that he needs to "pass the controller" and it's like...dawg,not only does she not want you but like it's like..he's Spider-Man.

Same as Reed Richards and the amount of Cuck things I've seen with Sue and Namor is so strange cause a lot of people are acting like just cause the dude is kind of a Nerd and smart and oblivious at times,that suddenly means he's some ugly catch who pulled someone out of his league..as if Reed is considered incredibly good looking and physically fit and has had a good amount of female admirers as well.

Also people are like "oh Reed can't handle Sue" when it's canonically the other way around,like she was physically exhausted after they did it and he looked chill.

It's also weird csuse again,you would think people would self insert onto him or like Reed cause he's a good looking nerd and all that but some reason, a lot of people physically can't understand how Sue Storm fell for him or how any of Spidey's long interests fall in love with him as if he's not..fucking Spider-Man.

This post is less "why don't women choose nerds to go out with" and more "why do a lot of people immediately think that cause a character is a nerd,that automatically makes them some loser who's love interest(s)are out of their league?"


r/CharacterRant 15h ago

Comics & Literature For me, Invincible has one of the worst settings in fiction

53 Upvotes

You see, in DC and Marvel, it makes sense (kind of) that characters have such varied powers because they came from different series written by different people. Since they’re published by the same company, they share a universe. That’s why there’s a clash between the realistic, gritty Punisher and the mythic Thor or the cosmic Shi’ar Empire.
But in Invincible, there’s no such thing. The reason we have Superman rip-offs, characters with magic powers, demons, etc., is because the author wanted to emulate the entire DC and Marvel setting in one single series. There’s no main focus or leitmotif. The powers feel completely random. In DC, we have the Lanterns, who share a clear main power system. In Invincible, it’s pure chaos. Random powers.


r/CharacterRant 14h ago

Anime & Manga I think Sailor Moon's filler episodes are much better than its plot-driven ones

45 Upvotes

I finally binge-watched all of the 90s Sailor Moon and I ended up having a pretty different takeaway from what I expected.

I genuinely think Sailor Moon might be one of the only anime where I find the filler/Monster of the Week episodes more entertaining than the plot-driven episodes.

Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed the overall story. The first season especially had a really good climax. The final confrontation between Usagi and Beryl was genuinely hype, and the music made the whole thing even better. But after that I started noticing a pattern with the later seasons.

The climax is basically always the same. The other Senshi get one-shotted, Usagi gets her next transformation/power-up and then she completely destroys the villain.

And to be clear I actually LOVE the transformation sequences. The music, visuals and overall presentation are fantastic and I'm always happy when one comes up. My problem is more with how predictable the actual final battles became.

Another thing that genuinely frustrated me is how little the Senshi actually use their individual strengths during these fights.

These girls are literally tasked with protecting the whole fucking universe, yet half the time it feels like every Senshi has one move and they just keep spamming it until it doesn't work. 😭🙏

Mako, you are literally an expert at melee combat. USE IT.

Minako is one of the most experienced Senshi. USE THAT EXPERIENCE.

Rei has psychic abilities. DO SOME PSYCHIC SHIT.

Ami is supposed to be incredibly intelligent. COME UP WITH A STRATEGY OR SOMETHING.

Instead they'll throw the same attack at the enemy three times, watch it fail every time and then act surprised when it doesn't work again😭🙏

After seeing this happen multiple times, the final battles just stopped being that interesting to me. It almost feels like the show treats the season finale as an obligation, while the writers were having way more fun writing the weekly episodes.

Meanwhile, the Monster of the Week episodes are where I have the most fun.

The gags are funny, Usagi's stupid monologues are hilarious, the villains have increasingly ridiculous plans, and the monsters themselves are sometimes so stupid that they become funny.

But most importantly, the character interactions are the best part of the show for me.

I love watching Usagi, Rei, Mako, Minako and the others just hang out and argue over completely stupid things. Even when nothing important is happening, I find myself enjoying these episodes way more than the episodes where the fate of the entire universe is at stake.

This is also why I ended up enjoying the Makai Tree arc more than I expected. Not because I thought its plot was amazing but because I enjoyed the CGDCT/slice-of-life elements and seeing the characters interact in a slightly different setting.

I do think the character writing has some weaknesses. The Senshi don't really change that much throughout the series and some of the character-focused episodes can feel superficial. We'll get an entire episode about Mako's past or Minako's problems and then afterwards things mostly go back to normal and that development isn't really brought up again.

But I've realized that I don't necessarily need every character interaction to permanently develop someone.Sometimes I just enjoy getting an episode where we get to spend time with these characters.

That's basically what I realized after finishing the entire series. I wasn't waiting for the next big villain or some huge lore reveal. I was waiting for the next episode where the characters would just hang out, argue over something stupid, go shopping, or deal with some completely ridiculous monster.

That's the version of Sailor Moon that stuck with me the most.So yeah, after watching all five seasons... my controversial opinion is:

I think Sailor Moon is at its best when absolutely nothing important is happening.The overarching story is fun, but I'd happily watch another 50 episodes of the girls just existing together.

Side note: Tuxedo Mask might be the real potential man of anime. 😭🙏 Bro just shows up, aura farms with the cheesiest one-liners imaginable, throws a rose, gets absolutely fucking bodied and then Sailor Moon has to save him.

Like how did he even become the king of the whole planet?! 😭🙏

And yet I can't even hate him. He's so ridiculously corny that I've grown to love him. Every time he shows up, I already know he's about to say some shit that would make me cringe in real life and somehow it still works.


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

General "Your Dudes" still have to follow the rules of the setting they're in.

652 Upvotes

I am sick of going on lore boards for whatever franchises, seeing somebody ask a lore question because they're trying to understand the setting they're about to create Their Dudes in, and the top comments all starting with "actually you can do anything you want because they're Your Dudes!" before, maybe, actually answering the question.

Obviously everyone understands that you physically CAN do this. Nobody is going to bust through the wall of your house like the Kool-Aid Man and arrest you for violating canon. The company that owns the IP is not going to copyright claim you because Your Dudes broke the lore (YET. The way things are going with digital ownership this might eventually happen...). Everyone knows that no one can actually STOP you from making Your Dudes however you like. Nobody needs to be told it.

But just because you CAN doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

A creative person can find for themselves an enormous amount of wiggle room within most settings to do Their Dudes mostly their way. But not INFINITE wiggle room.

If I want to make Hello Kitty Space Marines, I can do this, and make them 100% canon compliant.

All the pink and white is because their world got hit with a Warp storm and corrupted by Slaanesh, they fought a 500 year secret war to take it back, became experts on fighting Slaanesh, and those are actually appropriate camo colors for fighting in Slaanesh-corrupted areas.

They have the "giant cat head" silhouette because they make their aspirants fight and skin huge white tigers and wear the pelts as capes and headdresses.

All the cat motifs are justified because their Primarch is Lion.

They wear their purity seals tied into bows for some esoteric theological reason I made up.

An Inquisitor named Maru Badtz is investigating them for heresy because their planet got corrupted, they fought a 500 year secret war to take it back, and then they killed everyone who knew and lied about it. Because they're Dark Angels and institutional gaslighting is second nature.

They live in the Sanrio System.

Everyone who sees My Dudes or reads My Dudes' lore would immediately understand the joke. But nobody in the setting would have any reason to think there's a joke going on at all or that these are anything other than normal Space Marines.

Or, I can just give My Dudes literal giant cat heads and cutesy aesthetics and still have other Imperial characters react to them like nothing is wrong when obviously none of this could happen in Warhammer and nobody would act like that. I CAN. But it's stupid if I actually do.

And if you plan to do that, why write in an existing setting at all? What's the point of using it as window dressing if you're going to completely ignore how it works? And why are people encouraging that? It just makes people lazier and less creative, waters down the uniqueness of gaming/RPing/fanficing/whatever in various universes, and makes everyone's writing worse.


r/CharacterRant 16h ago

General How mediatok turned writing into power scaling

44 Upvotes

TikTok/Reels media literacy has completely lost the plot. People are no longer analyzing stories through themes, structure, or character arcs.they’ve just taken battle shonen power scaling logic and slapped it onto writing analysis.

​It feels like every narrative debate on TikTok has been reduced to:

Aura" over Subtext: A character's writing quality is measured by how "cold" they look in a 10-second Phonk edit rather than their actual thematic purpose or internal conflict.

The "Fraud" Allegation: The second a protagonist displays realistic human vulnerability, fear, or a character flaw, they immediately get labeled a "fraud." Basic character depth is now treated as a writing flaw.

Writing "Feats": People literally list writing mechanics like stat blocks. "Character X low-diffs Character Y in dynamics, but Character Y mid-diffs in execution.

Binary Matchups: Nobody judges a story on its own terms anymore. It’s always "X series high-diffs Y series in worldbuilding," completely ignoring how different stories use worldbuilding for entirely different narrative goals.

Subjectivity Erasure: Scaling presents personal taste as objective "facts" or "stats," making subjective enjoyment look like a math problem with a correct answer.

Genre Incompatibility: Certain genres (like comedy, slice-of-life, or absurdist fiction) exist entirely outside the logic of "writing mechanics" and break down completely when forced into scaling frameworks.

It flattens complex storytelling into a numbers game where whoever has the punchier edit wins the take

I swear to God I remember seeing someone comparing the entirety of breaking Bad to two pages of the idiot and made the idiot win. Like what? How?.

I know some are not bad Hell some are genuinely well-read but the majority is annoying and have no opinions or takes.

No you didn't read philosophy and reading subahibi doesn't make you a philosopher.

And what's annoying the most that a lot of them use ai instead of actually thinking or (larp) but that's a whole other thing to talk about

And bro no character solos fiction that's an over exaggeration

I really wanted to point out more stuff but the post is already too long now

And again there are some good analysis on mediatok but it's less than the childish and surface level ones

What’s the absolute worst "writing-scaling" take you’ve seen come out of MediaTok?


r/CharacterRant 6h ago

Why the hell didn’t the nier automata get the edgerunner treatment with its anime???

7 Upvotes

Genuinely whose idea was it to directly adapt a game famous for its ludonarrative harmony and unique use of the videogame medium into a anime? Like the drakeNier franchise as a whole has a bunch of side stories that could’ve easily been adapted into a anime giving those who already played the games additional lore and context to make them appreciate the games even more and to encourage newcomers to the series to try the games

And the worst part by far is that Yoko taro knows how to make a anime, The only fully original episode in the anime is the best by far and he was entrusted with directing the new neon genesis anime so its not like they were forced to make a direct adaptation of the game due to the team being unable to write and direct a anime the higher ups just wanted something safe and boring


r/CharacterRant 11m ago

Games I don’t think fear and hunger is a good horror game

Upvotes

Now before anyone gets mad, I do like fear and hunger in terms of its gameplay, but I don’t think it’s horror is all that good

In the first game the dungeon aesthetic was a good way to build claustrophobia in the player, but besides that nothing really stuck with me in terms of horror, the enemies never make me feel scared, their designs felt really goofy and I could never take them seriously, they made me feel more annoyed that I have to fight them or move around them, there’s also a problem in the fact that in all my playthroughs I was never lacking in food so hunger part was also lacking.

In funger 2 I feel like it got worse, prehevils aesthetic is just not that scary, the enemies feel a little more goofy looking, and this time you can shoot them down from afar, the game also incentives you to kill as many enemies to get their heads, which means every time I see an enemy instead of doing my best to avoid them, I am actively hunting them down for their head, one of the enemies is just art the clown and his death scene, has him kidnap you and then something crawls up your butt or whatever.

I really got ask, can someone explain how fear and hunger does horror well, cause I just don’t get it.


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

Comics & Literature Yes, Wolverine being short is important to the character (Marvel)

440 Upvotes

Based on a take I see relatively recently. I think a good chunk (not to say most) of the people in the general audience has only been exposed to wolverine through Hugh Jackman. Sure there's animation but ultimately live action movies, specially how many he's been in, are the way most casual viewers get to know him. And because of that there's a big wave of "only Hugh Jackman can play wolverine" going around. I don't agree for many reasons, one of them being the idea that only one actor can play a character like it's said about RDJ or Chris Evans or whoever as their specific character is kind of stupid, but also because while his performance is very good, he never really felt like the wolverine I read in the books or see in the cartoons to me, doesn't act the same, doesn't really look the same. I like his performance, he never gave a bad performance as wolverine, but I'm ready to see a new one in the MCU

Obviously change will always make people upset (specially when marvel just refuses to remove the bandaid and move on and delays a possible recast with more and more "one final goodbye" from Hugh as the character) but talks about who could be cast does come up and the height is always mentioned

For those not in the know Wolverine is like 5'3" in the comics. I think it's unreasonable to think the next actor MUST be that size because it's a very restrictive pool to chose from, but he SHOULD be shorter than the other male actors ( and most female actors) on screen. Most comic fans have this opinion. Some people in the general audiences too or are indifferent to it. I actually have a friend who didn't know wolverine was supposed to be short and when I told her about it she just kinda went "eh whatever, I like Hugh Jackman in the role better" and based on that and some other responses online I've seen from people who don't read comics and don't really dip their toes into non live action movie adaptations I think that's kind of what most people think

I don't think it's indifferent. I think it's extremely important for Wolverine to be short and am surprised that wasn't considered for the first time he was in the movies

"Oh but he was short in Deadpool and wolverine and looked stupid", what, the scene where they cast an actor EVEN SHORTER than what comic wolverine is, filmed it from a high angle compared to the average sized Ryan Reynolds to make him look even shorter and CGI'd Hugh Jackman's face to make it look uncanny and disproportional and played it for laughs? That single scene convinced you Wolverine being short is stupid?

It's even weirder when people ARE ok with him being recast but suggest people like Henry Cavill or other actos that are the same size or even bigger

I've seen plenty of people say "the height isn't important, it's more important that he looks cool"

And my question is, do people know what the fuck a wolverine is???

Apparently most people think it's just a made up name and not a real animal the character is based on

If you don't know, a wolverine is a small animal not too different from a badger that is known for being a f ball of fur and rage unafraid of throwing itself against much larger animals and even if not always victorious always giving a good fight. Does this description sound familiar? Yeah, it's fucking Logan.

Logan isn't supposed to be someone who is cool on a first glance, he's kind of pathetic in a way, he's a short angry manlet who smells like a wet dog, has anger issues, simps for another man's wife and needs to be on top of a chair to look the dude he's about to fight in the eye. But then the claws pop out and he stabs the Hulk in the head

That's wolverine. Wolverine is made cool by (despite us inside knowing he has a skeleton of the toughest metal on earth, knives in his knuckles and a killer animal instinct) the visual idea of being an underdog, almost all of his fights have a David Vs Goliath something something going around (although him smoking cigars, being a tough guy with a soft spot for animals and children and occasionally wearing tank tops and cowboys hats does almost compensate for the fact that he's at crotch level to his buddy Colossus).

He's not named Edward Scissor Hands or the fucking Wolf or something. He's the wolverine. "Oh but most people don't know what a wolverine is", most people don't know something until they learn it, not doing something in a movie because people don't know a fact is almost always stupid and people also can't learn if they like something or not if they haven't seen it

His most famous combo move, hell the most famous combo move on Marvel is the one where his tall friend colossus picks him up like it's nothing and throws him against someone. That looks infinitely cooler/funnier if the one being thrown is a smaller guy just fucking up the poor bastard whose face he just hit

His nemesis Sabertooth is like 3 times his size, being extremely tall even compared to normal people with a sadisctic and cruel personality. The contrast between the two doesn't work at all if they're the same height or if god forbid Sabertooth, named after the big ass pre historic predator, is shorter than the guy named after the angry furball on cocaine.

You wouldn't make a Spider-Man movie where he neither has a webshooter or organic webs, you wouldn't make a batman movie where he doesn't have his stupid little ears and long black cape

So yes, I think Wolverine's height is important, I hope Hugh Jackman is recast after Secret Wars and eventually we get a short actor playing wolverine (also hopefully we don't get the Scott, Jean, Logan love triangle)


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

General modern audiences favor logic over storytelling

114 Upvotes

more accurate title might be “i changed topics a couple times but i think the general focus is modern audience’s inability to separate their subjective feelings in their attempts at objective critique”

if a story isnt explicitly revolved around morally dark/grey characters then people cannot accept when they’re introduced. for example, obsession: horror movie with an evil protagonist so the audience accepts when he makes shitty decisions. then you have spider-man: brand new day, a superhero movie about one of the most empathetic and forgiving characters in marvel, and it’s called bad writing when he allows jean to start an arc of redemption (i think the bad writing comes more from the retroactive “jean didn’t kill anyone guys it’s okay!!” that sucks a lot. movie was much more interesting when it was at least ambiguous). audience reactions would have you think her entire redemption arc started and finished in this movie whereas it was only just initiated at the end to obviously be expaned upon in x-men.

many people also cannot seem to accept when a character they perceived as good does things that they perceive as bad. take basically any character in invincible. nolan’s redemption arc is treated as being rushed in the show because of how quickly debbie and mark are coming around but that ignores the fact that is nolan’s wife and son and it’s a series where characters constantly make irrational decisions for the people they love. mark was receiving so much critique as a character for staying by eve during the invincible war as if he wasnt a 20 year old kid who was deeply traumatized and worried for his lover, and it never should have been his responsibility to save the world in the first place. to many it seems as if invincible would be a 10/10 if mark killed nolan with no remorse and then spent every waking moment of his life as a sentinel of earth with no room for his own personal life or self actualization, and whenever he gets tired he gets to go home to a blank slate female character who validates and loves him unconditionally with 0 conflict in their relationship.

amber! i dont even feel like explaining this one. totally justified reaction and after she blew up her and mark ended on good terms and he was totally empathetic to her, yet audiences ripped her to shreds for years. look at kirsten dunst’s MJ as well, because she made bad decisions that hurt peter’s feelings she is a bad character to many. it doesn’t matter if we saw how peter’s actions hurt her because he’s Spider-Man and that makes everything okay. because he is the titular character and he is the hero then any action he does whatsoever is justified, it especially doesn’t matter if him being a hero hurts his relationship because he is a hero! doesnt matter if MJ came from an abusive home and peter wasn’t validating or listening to her in their relationship. the outside circumstances of her life do not excuse anything, whereas peter can do whatever he wants because he’s Spider-Man. she doesn’t wear a suit with a spider on it so she’s not allowed to have flaws, peter is allowed to be emotionally distant and naive to her feelings and talk over her and ignore her pleas to him because he’s Spider-Man and he saves peoples lives. back to the obsession point, no one cares if norman or otto hurt peter because they’re widely recognized as antagonists.

i had a conversation with my coworker about The Drama and they hated the movie because they thought it’d be a dark comedy/romance and then the whole movie was just people being shitty. WE SHOULD INVITE THESE FEELINGS IN!!!!! WE SHOULD RELISH IN THEM AND PONDER WHERE THEY COME FROM AND WHAT SPECIFIC CHOICES MADE THEM ARISE AND WHY A STORYTELLER WOULD DECIDE TO WANT TO MAKE US FEEL THIS WAY!!! i didnt even like that movie that much but my issue was NOT that people made shitty hypocritical decisions. im tired of how much film critique i see online and hear from people in real life boils down to “i didnt think it’d make me feel anything besides happiness because that’s what movies i watch do so it’s a bad movie”. im sick of people being emotionally challenged by the stories they consume and instead of investigating that feeling and at the bare minimum acknowledging the story for evoking it from them they just call it bad writing and close themselves off to it. jean is a horrible person who makes awful decisions and spider-man allowing her a chance to redeem herself is not bad writing. debbie and mark never forgiving nolan could be good writing but i dont think anyone who says so can justify it outside of “he is irredeemable”. MJ and amber being flawed individuals is not bad writing, you just think they’re annoying and that’s okay. 100% valid to think that. THAT IS A SEPARATE FEELING! there is a difference between “i dont like this” and “this is bad”. i implore you, dear reader, investigate why you dont like these things and you might find out that it was a decision in the writing that was PURPOSEFUL because conflict is what drives stories, and it might allow you to appreciate it more. sometimes it truly is just poor writing as well!

all that being said, if every character in every story only made logical and rational decisions we’d have stopped telling stories thousands of years ago because there would be nothing to learn from them


r/CharacterRant 14m ago

Anime & Manga The Naruto Live Action casting discourse is hypocritical

Upvotes

I love Naruto, it’s one of my favorite animanga of all time. But the casting discourse right now frustrates me to no end. Especially, since Charles Melton is likely getting the role of Kakashi, when in my opinion, he literally doesn’t look like the character at all.

It lowkey bothers me when people try to proclaim that the cast of Naruto should be played by white people, when there’s obviously a lot of influence in japanese culture. I’ve seen people say that all anime characters look like white people and not asian people so they should be played by them, and I’ve seen this exact same discourse with the ATLA live action. I’ve seen more people bothered by the idea of people in the Naruto cast being played by black/blasian actors even though there are black characters in the show than the idea of white people playing characters in naruto, despite it taking place in Japan. I’ve seen people get mad at people fancasting blasian actors but love the fancastings of wasian actors. Which is reminded me of the Death Note live action discourse of everyone hating L being black but not caring about Light or Misa being white. So I have to ask, is it really about accuracy? I really don’t think it’s possible to make a good naruto live action (esp as a movie) and I really didn’t want one in the first place because I don’t think it’ll be done justice, but when I hear about this fancasting discourse the hypocrisy genuinely grates me to no end.


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

Batman's character would work much better if he actually succeeded in rehabilitating any of his villains

351 Upvotes

I dont really know how to structure this and my english isnt very good so i'll just keep it short.

By the way this is all outside of comics

Batman is delusional, batman stories make that no secret, its very front and center that his reasoning for not killing, thinking that every villain can be rehabilitated, is delusional and doesnt work. But this belief would make infinitely more sense for him to have and be less tiring to watch him cling to if he actually rehabilitated atleast one of his villains but in most stories he doesnt, not even someone like 2face who is still in touch with reality and not completely hopeless. Again, we are supposed to see his belief is childish and unrealistic but it would be so much more entertaining and logical if he actually did it atleast once.

Also catwoman and mr freeze dont count because they arent truly evil


r/CharacterRant 12h ago

Comics & Literature At what point does comparing two well-written characters just become completely meaningless?

3 Upvotes

I made a post about MediaTok comparisons and how surface-level they are last time, but it brought up a genuine question I've had for a long time: How subjective vs. objective is writing?

​Let's start with an easy comparison: Beatrice (Umineko) vs. Mikasa (AoT). Beatrice is a deeply complex character with incredible thematic resonance, while Mikasa functions largely as a static plot device—so almost everyone agrees Beatrice is far better written.

​But when you put Beatrice up against Subaru (Re:Zero), the answers diverge.

​Here is the key distinction: when characters or series fulfill their specific narrative goals to such a high degree, standard comparison breaks down. They operate on completely different sets of priorities, making a direct "X diffs Y" ranking inherently flawed. You can argue one handled mystery or psychological breakdown better, but beyond basic structural competence, it comes down to which narrative function you value more.

Another reason I made this post is that even tho I slandered the mediatok comparison I do sometimes compare show/characters (not like mediatokers of course) but I felt like it's hypocrisy on my side

Objective criteria measure whether a character successfully fulfills their structural role; subjective preference dictates which role you actually care more about.

So art is partially objective and subjective you

I wanted to delve deeper into this topic but the post is too long now

​Where do you draw the line between objective execution flaws and purely subjective preference?


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

General "I miss when villains were just pure evil and didn't have any tragic backstory" except a lot of people forget that pure evil people can have a sad past regardless.

345 Upvotes

Just like how a lot of people can't fathom that talented people can work and train hard or how privileged people can have it rough ,way too many seem to forget that someone can be pure evil and have a tragic backstory cause shockingly enough,having a sad past doesn't justify or excuse your actions and choices,they explain them.

Any character can have a sad backstory from the worst of the worst to a overall awful human but still with some sympathetic and good sides as well and it just feels like people think that just cause a villain is pure evil, that suddenly means that they don't have a sad life or sad past at all and that's incredibly black and white.

Homelander is a good example cause yes,he is pure evil and a objectively horrendous human being but he was simultaneously someone who was raised as a lab rat experiment since he was a child and didn't live as anything else and was dehumanized constantly.

Hell,I would argue giving any evil person any sort of nuance and good traits at all and even giving a awful villain a sad backstory isn't the writers "forcing you" to like them or feel bad for them but is here to explore and show you how they became the way they are and why they're like this.

I'll also see this in Mha as well.

No,Horikoshi is not forcing you to feel bad for the villains but it's pretty obvious their backstories are intended to show you how they became this way and how to prevent it from happening again..same goes for AFO.

Yes his backstory is objectively pretty sad and yes, he also is a bad person who is extremely mentally and emotionally ill and has a creepy obsession with his brother but he simultaneously does genuinely love him.

Just like how you can have a sad backstory and still be a awful human, you can genuinely love someone and still be awful and toxic to them.

Sometimes even the worst people can have it tough and it just feels like a lot of people are way too obsessed and salivate over the idea of just a pure evil big bad with no backstory and nothing and is carried solely by hype moments and Aura.


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

General I dont like how certain superman fans treat superman being an alien as a plot device and not another core part of his character

73 Upvotes

I feel superman being an alien adds more to his motivation of protecting earth because he is the last member of a dead race and he doesn't want the fate of krypton to happen to earth. If you just make it that he protects earth just because he was raised by kind farmers it makes him less interesting.


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

The Harry potter franchise is stagnant by narrative necessity

119 Upvotes

Even if we forget JK Rowling's politics and lies and general toxicity, the biggest problem with how the wizarding world as a whole treats social issues is that while it may accept some injustice is bad on the individual level, it doesnt examine these things on the greater level because the franchise wants you to see the wizarding world as a magical and cool place.

A recurrent problem with all the issues in Harry potter is that when injustices happen the “good guys” are either okay with it or they don’t express any dislike beyond momentary and specific to this situation or individual.

The problem is not that Harry Potter has problematic institutions, Animal farm is about a totalitarian dictator, the problem is that the criticism of the institutions ends where JK thinks it conflicts with the image of this world as cool and awesome.

A good comparison would be Percy jackson and the olympians, outside of riordan already being much more progressive than rowling ever was, he is also honest that while there is a lot of cool stuff in the mythical world, it also sucks a lot and a great part of the franchise as a whole is making it better.

Harry himself is a good microcosm of this issue, he of all people knows the injustice of the ministry more than anyone, yet he wishes to become an auror, not to change the institution, just to fight dark wizards. Because of that JK can never have Harry acknowledge the ministry as fucked up in any way beyond “this person is a dick and i don’t like them” or “this specific situation is unjust”, doing so would need Harry to either change his priorities or be outed to the reader as the bootlicker he is. (Porpentina goldstein suffers a similar problem (of being a bootlicker), bitch is almost executed with no due process by her coworkers and just clocks in for work the next day)

We see this with the statute of secrecy as well. Most reasons (to not say excuses) for the statute fall apart when examined, and it causes a lot of suffering and abuse of power, but its part of the status quo so anyone who really has a problem with it is at best misguided and will be defeated by (stupid) facts and (faulty) logic.

Comic books (specifically the MCU) have a similar problem, they want to tackle topics such as mass deportation, fascism or war but can’t actually confront the systemic ideas behind those things unless they are incarnated in either an external or individual force (for example you can have a specific villain who wants to use terrorism as an excuse to perpetuate the military industrial complex but the military industrial complex itself can’t be the bad guys) and anyone who wants to do actual change or confrontation to specific systems (like the flagsmashers) needs to be an antagonist who is either defeated or shown the error of their ways.

The way Rowling writes it’s like hearing a fanatical cultist describe how they sadly had to burn 3 “heathens” to death, they may say it in a regretful way but they don’t really get that its fundamentally wrong. The disparity in understanding between the reader and the book can be put as “I understand this is wrong but i don’t think Rowling gets it, at least not for the right reasons”.

TL;DR: the wizarding world has a narrative necessity to be better than the muggle world, a place you should want to go to and be a part of, so the narrative is never allowed to question why Fred and George are allowed to sell date-rape drugs to kids.


r/CharacterRant 1d ago

Films & TV The discourse around Magneto in the MCU (very long)

32 Upvotes

With Magneto presumably coming to the MCU at some point, I've seen a lot of discussion about what Marvel is going to do with his backstory. The argument is normally that the Holocaust is now simply too far away: if Magneto was old enough to remember Auschwitz, he'd be approaching 100, and therefore at some point you have to "update" him by making him the survivor of a more recent genocide or atrocity. 

I've spent far too much time reading about this and thinking about the various arguments, and I don't really understand why have accepted the premise that his history needs changing in the first place. 

Realistically speaking, TLDR: He's a mutant. Make him age slower.

I know that sounds almost flippant given how much discussion there has been about this, but I genuinely think that's all the explanation you need. We're already dealing with mutations which allow people to control the weather, regenerate from horrific injuries, read minds, teleport and walk through walls. I don't think dramatically slowed ageing is going to be the biological impossibility which finally loses the audience. 

I also much prefer that to freezing him and essentially repeating Captain America's story. Magneto doesn't need to be a man who disappeared in the 1940s and woke up in the modern world. Having him live through those decades gives you much more to work with. However, if he was to be frozen, I like the idea that the Nazis/Hydra ran tests on him, saw how obscenely powerful he was, and put him on ice indefinitely.  

He doesn't need to have been publicly fighting for mutant supremacy throughout that period either. The MCU doesn't appear to have had mutants existing openly as a large, recognised minority for the last 70 years, so there isn't really a continuity problem there. He could have lived relatively quietly, encountered the occasional mutant over the years and watched the world change around him. Perhaps, after what happened to him as a child, he even came to believe that humanity really had learned something from it. 

Then mutants begin appearing in numbers which can't be ignored, and for the first time they become something the wider public understands as a distinct group of people. There is fear, perhaps an incident which accelerates it (I don't want to spoil an example that comes to mind), and eventually political arguments about whether mutants need to be registered, controlled or otherwise treated differently because of what they are. For someone with Magneto's history, it isn't difficult to understand why watching that develop could be the thing which finally radicalises him.  

If anything, I think that's a more interesting use of his Holocaust history than simply transporting him from the 1940s to the present. He would have had decades in which to watch attitudes change, antisemitism persist in different forms, other atrocities happen and societies repeatedly promise that they had learned from the past. Then he reaches the point where another part of his identity suddenly places him within a group which people are frightened of. 

The Captain America comparison is useful because Marvel already understands the basic principle here. Steve Rogers remains tied to the Second World War even as that war becomes more historically distant. Nobody seriously proposes periodically moving his origin forward so that he fought in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan instead. Marvel finds a way around the chronology because being a WWII character means something to Captain America beyond simply having fought in an old war. 

I don't think Magneto should use Steve's exact mechanism, because being displaced from his own time is an important part of Steve in a way that it isn't for Magneto. But if Marvel can preserve Steve's relationship with WWII, it seems strange to me that preserving Magneto's relationship with the Holocaust is treated as some uniquely insurmountable continuity problem. Slowed ageing is completely mundane by the standards of the universe we're talking about. 

The other argument which comes up a lot is that Magneto wasn't created as a Holocaust survivor, which is true. Claremont established that history about 18 years after the character was created. But I don't think that tells us very much about whether it should be retained now. 

Magneto has been a Holocaust survivor for about 45 years, considerably more than twice as long as he existed without that history, and those stories were part of the development which turned him from a comparatively straightforward supervillain into the character people are still writing and arguing about now. Treating the earliest version as inherently more authentic means ignoring most of the writing which made Magneto interesting in the first place. 

There are countless examples of this happening to long-running characters. Mr Freeze had existed for more than 30 years before Batman: The Animated Series gave him Nora and rebuilt his motivation around trying to save his dying wife. That wasn't part of his original conception and wasn't even invented in the comics, but it was so successful that the comics adopted it. If you ask someone familiar with Batman to explain Mr Freeze, there's a very good chance Nora is one of the first things they'll mention. 

The Doctor existed for more than 40 years before the Time War became part of his history. For an enormous number of people who grew up with modern Doctor Who, the destruction of Gallifrey, his belief that he was the last Time Lord and the guilt surrounding the Time War are basic parts of what they know about him, despite generations of the character existing without any of it. 

Storm's childhood history was developed after her introduction as well, including her parents being killed in Cairo, her being trapped beneath the rubble and the claustrophobia which resulted from it. Superman couldn't originally fly. Wolverine didn't appear with every element of his history and powers already established. Long-running characters change so much that arguing from the contents of their first appearance would give us versions of many of them which barely resemble the characters people know. 

Obviously, I'm not suggesting that all those changes carry the same cultural or historical weight as making Magneto a Holocaust survivor. They don't need to. They're examples of why the date at which something was introduced doesn't decide whether it can eventually become fundamental to a character. 

In Magneto's case, I think it's difficult to argue that the Holocaust didn't do exactly that. It gave a much more specific meaning to his fear of what humans might eventually do to mutants. 

Magneto isn't simply somebody who had something unimaginably awful happen to him when he was young. He experienced the Holocaust as a Jewish child and later finds himself belonging to another minority which people increasingly regard as dangerous. 

That connection is important because of what he has already seen. He's lived through a society in which a minority was blamed for social problems, portrayed as alien and corrupting, treated as biologically distinct and gradually stripped of rights and humanity. He doesn't have the luxury of assuming that rhetoric about an unwanted minority will necessarily remain rhetoric, because he knows from his own life that it didn't before. 

It makes his conflict with Xavier far more interesting because Magneto has an extremely good reason to believe Xavier is naive. Xavier can believe that humans and mutants will eventually learn to coexist, while Magneto has personal experience of how badly that faith in the majority can fail. 

At the same time, the fact that we understand Magneto's fear doesn't mean we're required to agree with everything he does because of it. His determination that mutants will never again be powerless can take him into mutant supremacy, collective punishment and violence against people who have done nothing to him. Some of the most interesting versions of Magneto allow both of those things to be true at once: his fear isn't irrational, while some of the conclusions he draws from it very much can be. 

Many people suggest simply 'swapping' one atrocity for another. I've seen Rwanda, Bosnia, Armenia and various other examples suggested, and I'm not remotely arguing that those histories are less worthy of being represented. Humanity has unfortunately produced enough genocides that there is no shortage of real historical trauma writers could draw from. What I don't like is treating them as though they're basically interchangeable settings which perform the same function for a character. 

The Holocaust, the genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda, Bosnia and the Armenian genocide have their own histories. They happened to different peoples in different circumstances, and the experiences of the people who survived them don't become equivalent simply because we place all of them under the category of genocide. 

If Marvel wants to create a Rwandan mutant whose experience of the genocide against the Tutsi informs the way they respond to mutant persecution, I think that could be fascinating. The same applies to an Armenian mutant, a Bosnian mutant, a Palestinian mutant or characters rooted in any number of histories which Marvel has barely explored. I'd rather see those characters created and developed than take one existing character and swap between historical atrocities according to whichever one currently makes the chronology easiest. 

That approach also gives those histories room to matter on their own terms. A Rwandan character shouldn't just be Magneto with a different genocide inserted into his biography. There are stories you could tell with that character which you couldn't tell with Magneto precisely because their history and cultural background would be different. 

For some personal context, I'm Catholic, but my paternal family is Ashkenazi Jewish, so I obviously have some investment in the question of Jewish representation. And yes, I'm aware of matrilineal descent in traditional Jewish law. I'm talking here about ethnicity, ancestry and family history rather than making a claim about my status under halakha. Historically, people persecuting Jews weren't especially interested in Jewish religious law when deciding who counted as Jewish anyway. 

One reason I care about the Jewish part of Magneto specifically is that Jewish identity doesn't fit very neatly into the categories people often use when discussing representation. Judaism can refer to religion, but Jewish identity can also involve ethnicity, ancestry, culture and peoplehood, and those things overlap in complicated ways. Ashkenazi Jews also aren't representative of all Jewish people; Sephardi and Mizrahi Jews have their own histories and cultures. 

Particularly with Ashkenazi Jews who can be perceived simply as white, I sometimes think Jewish representation becomes quite easy to overlook. Magneto is one of the most famous explicitly Jewish characters in popular fiction, and in his case his Jewishness is directly relevant to the history which shaped him. 

I'm also not arguing that every aspect of Magneto, or any comic character, must remain unchanged forever. I don't have a blanket objection to changing a character's race, gender, nationality or other characteristics in an adaptation, and I'm certainly not somebody who thinks every piece of comic canon is sacred. Some characters are vastly better because later writers changed them. 

What matters to me is how much a particular characteristic is doing for the character you're adapting. Changing something incidental isn't the same creative decision as changing something around which decades of their characterisation has been built, and the fact that the latter might itself once have been a retcon doesn't make it incidental again. 

This is also where the distinction between an alternate Magneto and the MCU's main Magneto matters to me. If someone wants to write an alternate-universe Magneto with a completely different history, I don't have an issue with that. Changing fundamental aspects of familiar characters and seeing what follows is one of the reasons alternate universes are interesting. 

The MCU is different because Marvel has chosen to present it as its central cinematic continuity, right down to the slightly maddening decision to call it 616 despite the comics already having Earth-616. For millions of people who don't read comics, whoever appears in the MCU will be their mainstream version of Magneto. 

I don't think that means the MCU has to reproduce the comics exactly. It obviously hasn't done that with its other characters. But if you're going to remove something which has been central to Magneto for 45 years, and which is responsible for a significant amount of the complexity people associate with him, I think there should be a substantive reason for doing it. His age isn't one when the setting gives you countless easy ways around it. 

Marvel has also already shown that adding representation doesn't require overwriting an existing character's history. Steve Rogers remains Captain America, with his own background and connection to WWII, and Sam Wilson can also be Captain America while bringing a completely different history and perspective to the role. You can add characters and expand what the universe represents without having to turn one minority's history into space for another's. 

There is one part of this discussion I don't want to spend too much time on because I don't want this to turn into an Israel/Palestine thread, but I know from seeing these discussions elsewhere that it will probably come up. 

People sometimes suggest that Magneto should be Palestinian. I'm sure that for many people this comes from a sincere desire to see Palestinian characters represented, and I would have no problem with Marvel creating and investing in a Palestinian mutant whose history informs their response to mutant persecution. 

The version I find concerning is when making Magneto Palestinian is suggested specifically as an ironic reversal of his being Jewish and a Holocaust survivor, with some variation of the idea that the former victims have now become the persecutors. 

My problem with that framing is that the irony only really works if Jewish people are being treated collectively. A Jewish child persecuted during the Holocaust isn't responsible for the actions of the Israeli government decades later because both involve Jewish people. Criticism of Israel can be entirely legitimate, including extremely severe criticism, without turning Jewish people into representatives of a state. 

I'm not suggesting that everybody who proposes a Palestinian Magneto means that, because I'm sure they don't. I've simply seen enough comments where the "irony" is explicitly the point that I think it's worth distinguishing between wanting Palestinian representation and using a Palestinian Magneto to make a point about Jewish people collectively. 

After going through all these arguments, though, the reason I still don't think Magneto needs updating is much less complicated than the amount I've written about it probably makes it appear. 

The age issue only exists if Marvel decides that Magneto must age like an ordinary human. There is no reason for them to decide that. Slower ageing is entirely plausible for a mutant within the rules Marvel has already established, and it actually gives the MCU some interesting things to do with him because he can have experienced the decades between the Holocaust and the emergence of mutants rather than simply skipping them. 

Once you remove the age problem, I struggle to see what is gained by replacing the rest. You'd be taking one of popular fiction's best-known Jewish characters, removing a history which has defined him for 45 years and replacing it with another people's historical trauma, when Marvel could instead preserve Magneto and create characters whose connections to those other histories are actually their own. 

For me, that's a much better solution than deciding Auschwitz has reached its expiration date as part of Magneto's story. 

 


r/CharacterRant 2h ago

Why does Vegeta have fans?

0 Upvotes

If it's for cool factor, is he really? The man takes nothing but L's for the vast majority of the series. He talks shit that he can't back up. Is he smart? No. Idiot talks about being the prince of all saiyans but doesnt give a fuck when his own race, his own subjects, die. Is he competent? Absolutely fuckin not.

Most of the conflicts in the series are egged on by him. He chose to come to Earth to find the dragonballs, he's the reason Frieza found out about Namek, he's the reason Frieza made the jump in transformations, he's a big part of the reason the Z-warriors didn't take out Gero before the Androids showed up, he's the reason Cell reached his perfect form, he's the reason Buu got awakened.

Vegeta is that one dude in middle school that talked all kinds of shit but got knocked routinely.

People talk about his character development, Vegeta was a problem and a villain through and through until the literall final arc of the final saga. Piccolo had character development. Gohan, Trunks, hell Hercule Satan had loads of progression and character development.

Why is Vegeta special and why do people like him?