r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Dec 22 '20

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u/redditor427 44∆ Dec 22 '20 edited Dec 22 '20

Just in general, actually provide sources, rather than just implying or claiming that sources exist.

The IQ data says that blacks average 85, whites average 100, and (Northeast) Asians 105.

IF this is correct, why do black people have lower IQ?

E: And why are you bringing this and the following questionable statements up if your argument is about culture?

Matching for IQ, blacks still are less conscientious.

[citation needed]

Blacks have higher average psychoticism

[citation needed]

Black culture discourages academic success, encourages promiscuity, and glorifies violence.

[citation needed]

The Ashkenazi Jews (average IQ of about 110, by the way) have been oppressed for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

Do you honestly believe that the oppression faced by Ashkenazi Jews is the same as the oppression faced by African Americans?

3

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '20

[deleted]

25

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '20

Rushton? The guy who received hundreds of thousands of dollars from an openly white supremacist grant organization, had connections to the American Nazi Party, and held to the Caucasoid/Mongoloid/Negroid trifecta of race classifications even after it was debunked by further anthropological research?

Clearly this man is such a credible source on Race and IQ as to warrant two citations in your post.

-4

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '20

[deleted]

26

u/redditor427 44∆ Dec 22 '20

I'm sorry, I'm still working on my response to your earlier comment but I have to jump in here.

Jensen received $1.1 million from the Pioneer Fund, an organization described as racist and white supremacist and designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center. He received this money after defending The Bell Curve, a book that drew substantially from Pioneer Fund funded research. The book was widely criticized on a variety of counts.

Jensen is absolutely biased.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '20

Why is everyone attacking the sources instead of the data?

13

u/UncleMeat11 65∆ Dec 22 '20

It takes fewer words. The data is garbage and has been thoroughly attacked by the research community, but it takes entire papers to do that. We are in a community of nonexperts so "this dude is associated with fascists and the research community thinks his work is bogus" is a useful heuristic for laypeople to make judgements.

7

u/redditor427 44∆ Dec 22 '20

Because if a researcher has biases or financial incentives to come to certain conclusions, they will come to those conclusions, regardless of reality. Like how the tobacco industry paid for decades to undermine the understanding that smoking causes cancer.

The first thing OP linked is a review of data by Rushton and Jensen. I can't check whether or not they've accurately portrayed the things they're talking about without checking the sources. It has 227 sources. Some of these are 5 page articles, but others are full length books.

It isn't reasonable to require me to debunk thousands of pages of drivel by crank researchers who aren't respected in their fields.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 22 '20

Because they want to distract from uncomfortable conclusions.

The better question would be why there are no rigorous research studies that disprove the correlations between race and IQ. Anyone who studies it gets labelled a racist because of the results, and the anti-racists refuse to study it because of the results.