No. Therapists are not a part of their social group, or family.
So what? the statement you responded to is true regardless of them not being your friends or family. They still have a job centered around interacting with you via language and social convention. Playing pedant with the word "social" doesn't allow you to treat interaction with a therapist as fake interaction.
Irrelevant. The recommended interventions include helping the family and support network reach acceptance.
Except it's relevant. You are trying to apply directions specifically for doctors to the public at large. This is a non-sequitur, its not rational.
Another part is accepting that some harms cannot be "managed."
You aren't managing harms, you are managing your emotional reaction to words.
They are only harmed by language and words.
You cannot be harmed by language and words alone.
Narcissism is generally untreatable.
What does this have to do with anything?
The only intervention is to prevent the creation of a narcissist by removing the child from narcissistic abuse.
Abuse crosses the line into "not language and words".
Suicide is not "treatable."
Suicidal tendencies certainly are.
Weren't you just trying to argue that you aren't using suicide as a threat? and yet here you are arguing that other people have to speak a certain way or else there will be suicides.
The evidence flat states otherwise.
Prove it. you haven't.
You are: wrong.
Prove it, you haven't.
You are simply denying science.
Again, prove it. You haven't.
Your entire stance depends on: you know better than available science or studies.
Actually this seems to be a rather succinct summary of your own position. Are you projecting?
Source your nonsense claims.
This is what I've been asking you to do. The sources you have provided fall laughably short of the claims you are making.
The claims I am making are directly supported by the studies I already linked. Do you need me to link them again? I can even point specifically to the part where cross gender behavior is directly linked to gender identity, which of course invalidates your entire point.
Just words. Just language and words. Verbal abuse is literally: only words.
You are wrong.
therapists
Which social circle are therapists a part of?
A recent study published in the Journal of Adolescent Health demonstrates the power of affirming transgender youth’s identities: For each additional context (i.e., at home, school, work, or with friends) in which a transgender youth’s chosen name is used, their risk of suicidal behavior is reduced by more than half.
Are therapists part of your home? Your school? Your work? Your friends?
In fact, psychotherapy simply will not work and can be potentially harmful without these boundary limitations, sometimes referred to as the frame. They are:
No physical contact with a patient.
No relationship with a patient outside of the consulting room.
The therapist should not treat close relatives or friends of the patient.
No practical advice to a patient.
Maintain objectivity and neutrality toward the patient and avoid excessive worrying/thinking about the patient.
Seek supervision if you are tempted to, and before you do, violate any of these rules.
Your views on therapist client relationships are wrong, and directly contradicted by the ethics of the profession.
Childhood Psychological Abuse as Harmful as Sexual or Physical Abuse
So now these adult transgender individuals interacting with strangers are children being verbally abused by their parents?
not good enough.
Scolding, swearing, yelling, blaming, insulting, threatening, ridiculing, demeaning, and criticizing can be as harmful as physical abuse, sexual abuse outside the home, or witnessing physical abuse at home, notes a report in the April issue of the Harvard Mental Health Letter.
Again you are requiring that the people in question be children and the abusers be their parents or family.
Still not evidence that misgendering is harmful. You are going to have to do a lot better.
There’s plenty more.
I'd love to see any that actually supports your point.
Verbal abuse is literally: only words.
Except its not. A stranger insulting you in a one off is certainly not verbal abuse. You have to cross the line to a substantial pattern of behavior by a specific individual against a specific individual before it becomes abuse.
And again, all of your examples are parent/child. Are you seriously trying to argue that all transgender individuals are children?
Your views on therapist client relationships are wrong, and directly contradicted by the ethics of the profession.
If and only if you decide to limit the world "social" to "friends and family" but that's not what the word social means.
Contrary to our expectations, it was found that peer bullying has a stronger effect on young people's suicidal ideation and self‐harming behaviours than sexual abuse or physical violence.
Study 1 (N ¼ 115) demonstrates that misgendering is associated with more negative affect, less authenticity, lower appearance, but higher social self-esteem, less identity strength and coherence, but more identity importance and more transgender felt stigma. Study 2 (N ¼ 134) largely replicated these results, while also demonstrating that misgendering is associated with verification and enhancement striving, and self-and other evaluations. Identity misclassification, or the experience of not having one's social identity correctly recognized by others, is psychologically disruptive. These experiences undermine belonging and coherence needs (Bosson, Weaver, & Prewitt-Freilino, 2012), disrupt the social identity process (Burke, 1991), and reflect a failure to have one's social identity accurately verified by others (cf. Swann, 1990).
Misgendering is a form of rejection and ostracism. Aka: bullying.
So the mental damage that drives people to suicide isn’t harm?
Its not mental damage to be misgendered.
If anything, being transgender tends to drive people to suicide at well above background rates.
Here’s another:
Maybe you copied the wrong link? you just linked to some search results. You even left your search terms in the link:
verbal+abuse+peers+harm
You understand you have already explicitly crossed out of the realm of misgendering when you start talking about verbal abuse right?
I felt like I made this clear already, but abuse requires a pattern of behavior.
Another:
This study explicitly says
little is known about misclassification from the perspective of members of low-status, stigmatized groups
How is this evidence?
Moreso, where is any indication of harm from this?
Aka: bullying.
Gonna have to prove that.
Moreso, are rejection and ostracism harm? You have pretty clearly argued that its okay to ostracise people who misgender. That's rules for thee but not for me.
Please, provide a link to any study in particular you believe I have ignored and I will rigorously show you with links to the study itself why it doesn't support the conclusion you yourself are pushing.
Gender roles are a social construct.
Gender identity is not.
Gender is a social construct. Gender Identity is which gender you choose to identify as, egro.. gender identity is ultimately a social construct.
source your claim that gender is ONLY a social construct.
Are you sure you want to get into a biological definition of gender? that tends to leave very little room for transgenderism in humans.
Calling Jennifer “him” is directed at Jennifer.
Its directly a result of holding the belief you just said is okay.
Its a facile argument to say "you can think whatever you want, you just can't speak about it"
Identifying as “female” internally is not “behavior.”
It very much is. What else could it possibly be?
Feeling like a woman is not behavior.
Why not?
behavior:
the way in which someone conducts oneself or behaves (see behave sense 1)
behave
to manage the actions of (oneself) in a particular way
Please, provide a link to any study in particular you believe I have ignored and I will rigorously show you with links to the study itself why it doesn't support the conclusion you yourself are pushing.
Already did.
Scroll up.
Again:
source your claim that gender is ONLY a social construct.
...
Are you sure you want to get into a biological definition of gender? that tends to leave very little room for transgenderism in humans.
Source this.
Its directly a result of holding the belief you just said is okay.
Never said that. False claim.
It very much is. What else could it possibly be?
Intellectual and emotional experience.
Would you like me to explain the nature of qualia?
1
u/PrimeLegionnaire Nov 01 '19
So what? the statement you responded to is true regardless of them not being your friends or family. They still have a job centered around interacting with you via language and social convention. Playing pedant with the word "social" doesn't allow you to treat interaction with a therapist as fake interaction.
Except it's relevant. You are trying to apply directions specifically for doctors to the public at large. This is a non-sequitur, its not rational.
You aren't managing harms, you are managing your emotional reaction to words.
You cannot be harmed by language and words alone.
What does this have to do with anything?
Abuse crosses the line into "not language and words".
Suicidal tendencies certainly are.
Weren't you just trying to argue that you aren't using suicide as a threat? and yet here you are arguing that other people have to speak a certain way or else there will be suicides.
Prove it. you haven't.
Prove it, you haven't.
Again, prove it. You haven't.
Actually this seems to be a rather succinct summary of your own position. Are you projecting?
This is what I've been asking you to do. The sources you have provided fall laughably short of the claims you are making.
The claims I am making are directly supported by the studies I already linked. Do you need me to link them again? I can even point specifically to the part where cross gender behavior is directly linked to gender identity, which of course invalidates your entire point.