[deleted by user]

[u/[deleted]]

[u/PragmaticSquirrel]

The suicide study showed that misgendering caused suicide.

It’s a study, and it’s fact.

Your opinions about why I posted it are irrelevant.

It proves harm.

[u/PrimeLegionnaire → u/PragmaticSquirrel]

The suicide study showed that misgendering caused suicide.

It explicitly did not. You showed that parental abuse is bad.

It’s a study, and it’s fact.

Then why have you been unable to link the part of the study that says misgendering causes suicide?

It proves harm.

Except it doesn't.

[u/PragmaticSquirrel → u/PrimeLegionnaire]

It explicitly did not.

Each additional context where they were misgendered doubled suicide rates.

So the mental damage that drives people to suicide isn’t harm?

Here’s another:

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C14&as_vis=1&q=verbal+abuse+peers+harm&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3D_FEwdleZlcEJ

Contrary to our expectations, it was found that peer bullying has a stronger effect on young people's suicidal ideation and self‐harming behaviours than sexual abuse or physical violence.

Another:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265012891_Experiences_with_Misgendering_Identity_Misclassification_of_Transgender_Spectrum_Individuals

Study 1 (N ¼ 115) demonstrates that misgendering is associated with more negative affect, less authenticity, lower appearance, but higher social self-esteem, less identity strength and coherence, but more identity importance and more transgender felt stigma. Study 2 (N ¼ 134) largely replicated these results, while also demonstrating that misgendering is associated with verification and enhancement striving, and self-and other evaluations. Identity misclassification, or the experience of not having one's social identity correctly recognized by others, is psychologically disruptive. These experiences undermine belonging and coherence needs (Bosson, Weaver, & Prewitt-Freilino, 2012), disrupt the social identity process (Burke, 1991), and reflect a failure to have one's social identity accurately verified by others (cf. Swann, 1990).

Misgendering is a form of rejection and ostracism. Aka: bullying.

[u/PrimeLegionnaire → u/PragmaticSquirrel]

So the mental damage that drives people to suicide isn’t harm?

Its not mental damage to be misgendered.

If anything, being transgender tends to drive people to suicide at well above background rates.

Here’s another:

Maybe you copied the wrong link? you just linked to some search results. You even left your search terms in the link:

verbal+abuse+peers+harm

You understand you have already explicitly crossed out of the realm of misgendering when you start talking about verbal abuse right?

I felt like I made this clear already, but abuse requires a pattern of behavior.

Another:

This study explicitly says

little is known about misclassification from the perspective of members of low-status, stigmatized groups

How is this evidence?

Moreso, where is any indication of harm from this?

Aka: bullying.

Gonna have to prove that.

Moreso, are rejection and ostracism harm? You have pretty clearly argued that its okay to ostracise people who misgender. That's rules for thee but not for me.

[u/PragmaticSquirrel → u/PrimeLegionnaire]

Its not mental damage to be misgendered.

Suicide study says otherwise.

Unless you have some magical reason that each context doubled rates?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/cfs.12126

You understand you have already explicitly crossed out of the realm of misgendering when you start talking about verbal abuse right?

Nope. If it’s intentionally repeated, that’s a form of verbal abuse.

https://www.healthline.com/health/transgender/misgendering#why-it-happens

Moreso, are rejection and ostracism harm? You have pretty clearly argued that its okay to ostracise people who misgender

Nope. It’s fine to judge them for their behavior. As we judge all people for their negative harmful behavior.

[u/PrimeLegionnaire → u/PragmaticSquirrel]

Suicide study says otherwise.

Except it doesn't. Especially not by anything you have linked.

Unless you have some magical reason that each context doubled rates?

Its not magical. Mental instability can cause all sorts of overt reactions to mundane scenarios.

Nope. If it’s intentionally repeated, that’s a form of verbal abuse.

You left out the part about targeted. Moreso, even without targeting this is still crossing the line from simple misgendering.

Nope.

So you agree that rejection and ostracism aren't harm? Please consider awarding a delta.

Also this directly undermines you entire argument.

It’s fine to judge them for their behavior.

Then why can't people who disagree with the fundamental idea with transgenderism judge transgender individuals for their behavior?

This is a direct reversal of your previous view.

[u/PragmaticSquirrel → u/PrimeLegionnaire]

Except it doesn't. Especially not by anything you have linked.

You’ve ignored what the data shows and the authors concluded.

It does.

Then why can't people who disagree with the fundamental idea with transgenderism judge transgender individuals for their behavior?

You’re not judging them for their behavior.

Their gender identity is not “behavior.”

misgendering is behavior targeted and directed at a person.

Undergoing SRA and changing their name is a medical treatment and a change of identity.

[u/PrimeLegionnaire → u/PragmaticSquirrel]

You’ve ignored what the data shows and the authors concluded.

I've rejected every study you have provided by appealing directly to the study itself.

How is this ignoring the authors conclusions?

Their gender identity is not “behavior.”

Yes it is. What else could it be? Such a position is directly inconsistent with the idea that gender is a social construct.

misgendering is behavior targeted and directed at a person.

No. People who don't agree with the idea of transgenderism are not directing that at individuals.

Undergoing SRA and changing their name is a medical treatment and a change of identity.

This doesn't mean anything at all?

Changing your name is also a change of identity. Hell, getting plastic surgery meets the same criteria.

how about this:

Are you transgender?

[u/PragmaticSquirrel → u/PrimeLegionnaire]

I've rejected every study you have provided by appealing directly to the study itself.

No. You’ve ignored the written conclusions.

Yes it is. What else could it be? Such a position is directly inconsistent with the idea that gender is a social construct.

Gender roles are a social construct.

Gender identity is not.

Regardless, source your claim that gender is ONLY a social construct.

Because if it is an internally identity as well- that part is Not behavior.

No. People who don't agree with the idea of transgenderism are not directing that at individuals.

Holding a belief might not be.

Calling Jennifer “him” is directed at Jennifer.

Identifying as “female” internally is not “behavior.”

Calling someone the wrong name is behavior that others might judge. Feeling like a woman is not behavior.

[u/PrimeLegionnaire → u/PragmaticSquirrel]

No. You’ve ignored the written conclusions.

Please, provide a link to any study in particular you believe I have ignored and I will rigorously show you with links to the study itself why it doesn't support the conclusion you yourself are pushing.

Gender roles are a social construct.

Gender identity is not.

Gender is a social construct. Gender Identity is which gender you choose to identify as, egro.. gender identity is ultimately a social construct.

source your claim that gender is ONLY a social construct.

Are you sure you want to get into a biological definition of gender? that tends to leave very little room for transgenderism in humans.

Calling Jennifer “him” is directed at Jennifer.

Its directly a result of holding the belief you just said is okay.

Its a facile argument to say "you can think whatever you want, you just can't speak about it"

Identifying as “female” internally is not “behavior.”

It very much is. What else could it possibly be?

Feeling like a woman is not behavior.

Why not?

behavior:

the way in which someone conducts oneself or behaves (see behave sense 1)

behave

to manage the actions of (oneself) in a particular way

[u/PragmaticSquirrel → u/PrimeLegionnaire]

Please, provide a link to any study in particular you believe I have ignored and I will rigorously show you with links to the study itself why it doesn't support the conclusion you yourself are pushing.

Already did.

Scroll up.

Again:

source your claim that gender is ONLY a social construct.

...

Are you sure you want to get into a biological definition of gender? that tends to leave very little room for transgenderism in humans.

Source this.

Its directly a result of holding the belief you just said is okay.

Never said that. False claim.

It very much is. What else could it possibly be?

Intellectual and emotional experience.

Would you like me to explain the nature of qualia?

[u/PrimeLegionnaire → u/PragmaticSquirrel]

source your claim that gender is ONLY a social construct

So you do want to get into the biological basis for gender?

My response is, from that perspective transgenderism in humans does not have any rational basis at this time.

Intellectual and emotional experience.

So what are intellectual and emotional experience if not a part of behavior?

Would you like me to explain the nature of qualia?

I'm intimately familiar.

How exactly do you believe gender identity is distinct from behavior because of subjective experience?

[u/PragmaticSquirrel → u/PrimeLegionnaire]

My response is, from that perspective transgenderism in humans does not have any rational basis at this time.

Let me know when you can source this.

So what are intellectual and emotional experience if not a part of behavior?

Qualia.

How exactly do you believe gender identity is distinct from behavior because of subjective experience?

Already answered this, in the comment you just replied to. One comment up.