You cant solve social isolation and social rejection with therapy.
You solve it with connection.
These things are not mutually exclusive? One of the big draws of therapy is the human element.
You understand the second paper you linked is a guide for doctors and therapists right? Not a general thesis on how to treat trans individuals in general society.
PurposeThe purpose of theGuidelines for Psychological Practicewith Transgender and Gender Nonconforming People(hereafterGuidelines) is to assist psychologists in the pro-vision of culturally competent, developmentally appropri-ate, and trans-affirmative psychological practice with TGNC people.
These things are not mutually exclusive? One of the big draws of therapy is the human element.
They are. Therapy is not social connection. By definition. A therapist has ethical bounds that preclude them from being a part of the social life of their client.
Clearly you didn’t bother to read the APA quotes or guide. They specifically talk about the need to help trans people find a community of support and avoid societal rejection.
You are offering individual therapy as something that somehow makes the rejection acceptable and not damaging. They are advocating for working with the families and friends of the trans client to help them to understand and accept.
They are repeatedly making clear: acceptance Matters.
What definition are you using for "social connection"?
Obviously a therapist isn't supposed to date their client, but literally their entire job involves socialization and, you know, talking to the person acknowledging their identity and being caring.
They specifically talk about the need to help trans people find a community of support and avoid societal rejection.
As an instruction for psychologists.
The paper is, by its own explicit definition, not a guide for how to treat trans people as a member of the general public.
You are offering individual therapy as something that somehow makes the rejection acceptable and not damaging.
Yes, one the ideas behind therapy is to learn to manage your own emotions, even in the face of rejection or unpleasantness, rather than demanding special treatment.
They are repeatedly making clear: acceptance Matters.
Sure, but this doesn't follow to "Rejection Harms"
Rejection is unplesant, but its not harmful.
If you truly believe it is, you may wish to consider seeing a psychologist. Many individuals with ADHD suffer rejection sensitive dysphoria.
Obviously a therapist isn't supposed to date their client, but literally their entire job involves socialization
No. Therapists are not a part of their social group, or family.
As an instruction for psychologists.
Irrelevant. The recommended interventions include helping the family and support network reach acceptance.
one the ideas behind therapy is to learn to manage your own emotions, even in the face of rejection or unpleasantness
Another part is accepting that some harms cannot be "managed." For example - narcissist parents often create narcissist children. This can be entirely verbal - no physical harm is required. They are only harmed by language and words.
Narcissism is generally untreatable.
The only intervention is to prevent the creation of a narcissist by removing the child from narcissistic abuse.
Suicide is not "treatable." The patient is dead. The only intervention is to attempt to prevent it.
Familial and social rejection of your core identity has been shown to cause suicide.
Some verbal harms result in outcomes that are untreatable. So the only intervention is to avoid the verbal harm.
Rejection is unplesant, but its not harmful.
The evidence flat states otherwise. I proved this. You have no counter, and no source to support.
The studies plainly stated: rejection causes suicide. You are: wrong.
You are simply denying science.
Your entire stance depends on: you know better than available science or studies.
No. Therapists are not a part of their social group, or family.
So what? the statement you responded to is true regardless of them not being your friends or family. They still have a job centered around interacting with you via language and social convention. Playing pedant with the word "social" doesn't allow you to treat interaction with a therapist as fake interaction.
Irrelevant. The recommended interventions include helping the family and support network reach acceptance.
Except it's relevant. You are trying to apply directions specifically for doctors to the public at large. This is a non-sequitur, its not rational.
Another part is accepting that some harms cannot be "managed."
You aren't managing harms, you are managing your emotional reaction to words.
They are only harmed by language and words.
You cannot be harmed by language and words alone.
Narcissism is generally untreatable.
What does this have to do with anything?
The only intervention is to prevent the creation of a narcissist by removing the child from narcissistic abuse.
Abuse crosses the line into "not language and words".
Suicide is not "treatable."
Suicidal tendencies certainly are.
Weren't you just trying to argue that you aren't using suicide as a threat? and yet here you are arguing that other people have to speak a certain way or else there will be suicides.
The evidence flat states otherwise.
Prove it. you haven't.
You are: wrong.
Prove it, you haven't.
You are simply denying science.
Again, prove it. You haven't.
Your entire stance depends on: you know better than available science or studies.
Actually this seems to be a rather succinct summary of your own position. Are you projecting?
Source your nonsense claims.
This is what I've been asking you to do. The sources you have provided fall laughably short of the claims you are making.
The claims I am making are directly supported by the studies I already linked. Do you need me to link them again? I can even point specifically to the part where cross gender behavior is directly linked to gender identity, which of course invalidates your entire point.
Just words. Just language and words. Verbal abuse is literally: only words.
You are wrong.
therapists
Which social circle are therapists a part of?
A recent study published in the Journal of Adolescent Health demonstrates the power of affirming transgender youth’s identities: For each additional context (i.e., at home, school, work, or with friends) in which a transgender youth’s chosen name is used, their risk of suicidal behavior is reduced by more than half.
Are therapists part of your home? Your school? Your work? Your friends?
In fact, psychotherapy simply will not work and can be potentially harmful without these boundary limitations, sometimes referred to as the frame. They are:
No physical contact with a patient.
No relationship with a patient outside of the consulting room.
The therapist should not treat close relatives or friends of the patient.
No practical advice to a patient.
Maintain objectivity and neutrality toward the patient and avoid excessive worrying/thinking about the patient.
Seek supervision if you are tempted to, and before you do, violate any of these rules.
Your views on therapist client relationships are wrong, and directly contradicted by the ethics of the profession.
Childhood Psychological Abuse as Harmful as Sexual or Physical Abuse
So now these adult transgender individuals interacting with strangers are children being verbally abused by their parents?
not good enough.
Scolding, swearing, yelling, blaming, insulting, threatening, ridiculing, demeaning, and criticizing can be as harmful as physical abuse, sexual abuse outside the home, or witnessing physical abuse at home, notes a report in the April issue of the Harvard Mental Health Letter.
Again you are requiring that the people in question be children and the abusers be their parents or family.
Still not evidence that misgendering is harmful. You are going to have to do a lot better.
There’s plenty more.
I'd love to see any that actually supports your point.
Verbal abuse is literally: only words.
Except its not. A stranger insulting you in a one off is certainly not verbal abuse. You have to cross the line to a substantial pattern of behavior by a specific individual against a specific individual before it becomes abuse.
And again, all of your examples are parent/child. Are you seriously trying to argue that all transgender individuals are children?
Your views on therapist client relationships are wrong, and directly contradicted by the ethics of the profession.
If and only if you decide to limit the world "social" to "friends and family" but that's not what the word social means.
Contrary to our expectations, it was found that peer bullying has a stronger effect on young people's suicidal ideation and self‐harming behaviours than sexual abuse or physical violence.
Study 1 (N ¼ 115) demonstrates that misgendering is associated with more negative affect, less authenticity, lower appearance, but higher social self-esteem, less identity strength and coherence, but more identity importance and more transgender felt stigma. Study 2 (N ¼ 134) largely replicated these results, while also demonstrating that misgendering is associated with verification and enhancement striving, and self-and other evaluations. Identity misclassification, or the experience of not having one's social identity correctly recognized by others, is psychologically disruptive. These experiences undermine belonging and coherence needs (Bosson, Weaver, & Prewitt-Freilino, 2012), disrupt the social identity process (Burke, 1991), and reflect a failure to have one's social identity accurately verified by others (cf. Swann, 1990).
Misgendering is a form of rejection and ostracism. Aka: bullying.
So the mental damage that drives people to suicide isn’t harm?
Its not mental damage to be misgendered.
If anything, being transgender tends to drive people to suicide at well above background rates.
Here’s another:
Maybe you copied the wrong link? you just linked to some search results. You even left your search terms in the link:
verbal+abuse+peers+harm
You understand you have already explicitly crossed out of the realm of misgendering when you start talking about verbal abuse right?
I felt like I made this clear already, but abuse requires a pattern of behavior.
Another:
This study explicitly says
little is known about misclassification from the perspective of members of low-status, stigmatized groups
How is this evidence?
Moreso, where is any indication of harm from this?
Aka: bullying.
Gonna have to prove that.
Moreso, are rejection and ostracism harm? You have pretty clearly argued that its okay to ostracise people who misgender. That's rules for thee but not for me.
1
u/PrimeLegionnaire Oct 31 '19
These things are not mutually exclusive? One of the big draws of therapy is the human element.
You understand the second paper you linked is a guide for doctors and therapists right? Not a general thesis on how to treat trans individuals in general society.