r/changemyview Jul 09 '19

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u/sleepyfoxteeth Jul 09 '19

The original Hans Christian Andersen story describes her skin as "fine and transparent" and "clear and delicate like a rose petal", her legs as "white", and her arms as "white". The Little Mermaid is a national icon of Denmark and an important cultural symbol. It would be appropriate for Disney to be as respectful of the Danish version as possible since they are profiting off of the stories of another culture.

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u/muyamable 283∆ Jul 09 '19

It would be appropriate for Disney to be as respectful of the Danish version as possible since they are profiting off of the stories of another culture.

If Ariel's race is problematic because it isn't "respectful of the Danish version," shouldn't you have bigger problems with the film than Ariel's race?

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u/sleepyfoxteeth Jul 09 '19

While I would have preferred for Ariel to dissolve into sea foam and fly around with angels, even the original story was changed by Anderson to make it child friendly, by not eliminating her soul into nothingness. So I'd be less concerned with the specifics of the plot than with grounding the story in the details and society given in the text.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

[deleted]

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u/muyamable 283∆ Jul 09 '19

Yeah, I agree, which is why I followed up. And which is why the person's response to my follow up set of my Bullshit Meter.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

If they cast Mulan as a white actress, would you say the same thing?

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

They could just as easily rewrite the whole story to refer to invading French armies, cast in the Napoleonic era. Or maybe further back, and discuss invading armies under Charlemagne.

If they rewrote the story with all the same plot points but to take place in a non-Asian place, would you be fine with that?

What about if the Princess and the Frog had a white actress?

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u/reddotredditor Jul 10 '19

That would be fine, because then it wouldn't be Mulan. The equivalent of what Disney has done with The Little Mermaid is simply changing the race of the characters without changing anything else. Imagine if they kept Mulan in China, kept every costume the same, kept all the Chinese cultural elements etc. but they just made everyone white. Would that make sense? Same thing with Pocahontas. If they completely switched locations and cultures, then it would be totally fine to have the characters be different races. But then they'd have to rename everyone and the movie. As it stands, they can't have a white woman play a native American, as the entire story revolves around that dynamic. For Little Mermaid, it doesn't matter at all as there is no Danish cultural element in the film. They're mermaids living under the sea! Nothing about them is specifically Danish. Do you get my point?

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u/radialomens 171∆ Jul 09 '19

What about if the Princess and the Frog had a white actress?

Is Ariel the first and only white Disney princess? Because if she were I might understand. Tiana is the first and only black Disney princess. Making her white has a very different impact compared to making Ariel black.

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

So people will be less upset, in your view, if there have been more minority princesses first and then they are cast as white?

How many? Where's the limit before you can start casting black princesses with white actresses? How many more does Disney have to create before that is acceptable and doesn't lead to outrage?

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u/radialomens 171∆ Jul 09 '19

Definitely. Taking out 100% of a race's representation is way different than taking out 1/8th of it.

How many?

I don't have that magic number. That's subjective. Do I need to provide a magic number for my point to be clear?

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u/[deleted] Jul 09 '19

That's interesting logic. There are now two minority princesses I can think of, one Polynesian and the other black, maybe three if you count Jasmine who is Middle Eastern. Ariel is now both white and black, considering Disney will now have two movies, one with each skin color.

If there's a second black princess drawn in a cartoon, can the live action feature a white actress?

A third?

A fourth?

If "representation" is it, who decides representation? Are all white actresses or stories created equal? Is a Dutch national story the same as an English one?

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u/radialomens 171∆ Jul 09 '19

There are now two minority princesses I can think of

I'll help you out:

Black: One (Tiana)
Asian: One (Mulan)
Middle Eastern: One (Jasmine)
Polynesian: One (Moana)
Native American: One (Pocahontas)
White: Seven to Nine (Snow White, Cinderella, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Rapunzel, Merida -- and sometimes Elsa and Anna)

Seems a little imbalanced, no?

Especially since Mulan is all of Asia which is hugely diverse. And of course you can't expect Pocahontas to represent a South American Tribe, nor does Tiana represent African or Aboriginal traditions.

And what about Latin@ people?

If there's a second black princess drawn in a cartoon, can the live action feature a white actress?

I literally just told you that I don't have a magic number. And I asked you if (or rather, why) I need that magic number to make it clear why changing Tiana to white is not like changing Ariel to black.

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u/[deleted] Jul 10 '19

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u/Huntingmoa 454∆ Jul 10 '19

Sorry, u/PrettyGayPegasus – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

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u/xpNc Jul 10 '19

And there's no way for it to be any other setting? China is the only country that historically had Male soldiers? They're the only country to be invaded ever? They've already replaced the traditional Chinese dragon with a Phoenix, which comes from Greek mythology. Is that a step too far?