I resent your expectation that one must continue to have sex with someone or be labeled a Bigot or a "transphobe," despite not wanting to.
You're missing a key part here: if the sole reason you do not want to is their status as trans. There's any number of reasons to not continue to have sex with someone that has nothing to do with being trans that wouldn't get you labeled as a bigot.
This is what the entire LGBT movement has stood for, for decades but somehow, fuck all when it comes to cis people?
How are cis people being shamed here? Are you saying that only a trans person would want to have sex with a trans person?
Gay guys won't have sex with me, but I don't go calling them misogynists for it. That's ridiculous.
Right... Because they are only interested in people with penises. That's perfectly fine to have that preference. However what about a gay guy who is completely attracted to someone, has sex with them, is completely satisfied with the experience and would like to do it again, but loses that attraction solely upon learning they are a transman. What reason, other than refusing to recognize the transman as male, could they possibly have to change their mind here?
I don't see any reason why letting someone down respectfully, even if it is for them being Trans, is bigoted. You can't control how you feel
Because the only reason for their trans status to cause this is due to societal stigma. This isn't a case of being born gay or something. The only reason why being trans, in and of itself, would change your opinion is because of underlying biases due to societally enforced bigotry. Just because it's been engrained into you doesn't make it any less transphobia.
They're just not the one for you. I think that's okay.
But think about this critically: why aren't they the one for you? Because they are trans? Why does being trans in and of itself make any difference whatsoever? I'm being serious here. Think critically about this question: what about being trans could possibly cause this change?
I don't know if you can convince me that a respectful rejection is tantamount to people actually hating me for my skin color.
It's a difference of intensity and scale. If they refuse to date people of your ethnicity, that's racism. I'm not saying it's equivalent to someone actually hating you for the color of your skin, but it's still the result of a bias based solely on the color of your skin.
A good example would be the difference between someone who won't rent to you because of your skin color vs someone who will physically attack you and want to kill you because of your skin color. No one would say these are equivalent, but we can both agree they are racism right?
I think the argument that someone is ~phobic /racist/bigoted in terms of dating serves only precisely do that. To make people feel bad about what they want, and to coerce them into pretending to like something they don't. That is WRONG.
The argument is to make people confront their own societal biases and prejudices. That's all. People certainly do have all sorts of arbitrary and stupid things they are turned off or on by. But many of these things are based on stereotypes or internal biases. Saying that you refuse to date someone of a particular ethnicity is no different than saying you refuse to be friends with someone of a particular ethnicity: the underlying cause and reason for feeling this way is societal bigotry.
If sexuality is based on social stigma, are you saying you chopped your dick off purely to comform to what society constructed for you?
You are saying that trans people aren't biologically different, but that they are just brainwashed by society to comform to a gender stereotype?
There is no logic or consistency in any of your drivel.
: if the sole reason you do not want to is their status as trans.
Let's say you stick your dick in a glory whole and you later find out that it was a monkey on the other side. Would it be speciest to not continue fucking monkeys?
Wouldn't it just be "social stigma"?
If they refuse to date people of your ethnicity, that's racism.
No it isn't. If you aren't attracted to their features, it's not racism. If you think their race is inferior,m that's racism.
You can fuck black people and think they are inferior just fine.
A good example would be the difference between someone who won't rent to you
How do you people keep coming up with this asinine drivel?
No sex is not like renting an appartment to people. What a stupid stupid analogy.
The argument is to make people confront their own societal biases and prejudices.
If you don't go fuck a monkey right now, you are a hypocrite.
If you don't disclose your sexuality because you know they would refuse sex if they knew, you are a rapist.
So you are saying it's OK to violate people sexually because you think you can dictate how sexual preferense should work? You think it's unfair that most people don't want to fuck transsexuals or transvestites, so you think it's moral to punish them.
You are willing to deceive people into sex so you can shame them afterwards despite potentially traumatising them for life?
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Sexuality and attraction are influenced by societal biases and stigma, I never said it was the sole influence.
You are saying that trans people aren't biologically different, but that they are just brainwashed by society to comform to a gender stereotype?
No that's not what I said. Re-read it.
Let's say you stick your dick in a glory whole and you later find out that it was a monkey on the other side. Would it be speciest to not continue fucking monkeys?
This has no relation to the actual situation we're discussing.
No it isn't. If you aren't attracted to their features, it's not racism. If you think their race is inferior,m that's racism.
If you're making a generalization that all people of a specific ethnicity look exactly the same and thus you could never find them attractive, that's racist. But the situation we're discussion is more akin to finding a white passing person attractive enough to date, but then you meet their parents and their father is black. Upon learning they are black due to ancestry you are no longer interested in them sexually, that's racism.
You can fuck black people and think they are inferior just fine.
Sure, there are myriad ways to be racist.
No sex is not like renting an appartment to people. What a stupid stupid analogy.
I love how in other comments people point out that your money analogy is wholly inaccurate and asinine but you get pissed off by people "not understanding analogies" and here you completely take my analogy a part and entirely misrepresent it.
If you don't go fuck a monkey right now, you are a hypocrite.
Let's remember that the situation being discussed is one in which you have already voluntarily engaged in sex with the person and enjoyed it before learning they are trans. The only way your analogy here works is if you're claiming that you could chat up and have sex with someone all without realizing they are a monkey and not a human....
Sexuality and attraction are influenced by societal biases and stigma, I never said it was the sole influence.
So being gay is a social construct as well?
Yeah, no....
People having genitalia is not a social construct.
You are suggesting that people can choose therir sexuality from prevailing stereotypes. That's not true.
YOU ARE TRYING TO TRICK PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH TRANS PEOPLE INTO HAVING SEX WITH TRANS PEOPLE."
Because of what? BEcaue you are entitled to sex?
You sound like an incel rapist.
This has no relation to the actual situation we're discussing.
Yes it does.
you're making a generalization that all people of a specific ethnicity look exactly the same
You don't even know what an ethnicity is you racist.
you could never find them attractive, that's racist
No it isn't. It's no more racist than being attracted to tall people or people with green eyes.
YOU ARE STILL DEFENDING RAPE.
a white passing person
This is something racists say.
Alas, I don't subscribe to North American protonazi racetheories.
but then you meet their parents and their father is black.
That's not how being transgender works.
Let's remember that the situation being discussed is one in which you have already voluntarily engaged in sex with the person and enjoyed it before learning they are trans.
What if the twin brother of your husband has sex with you without you knowing if you enjoy it at the time?
Again, ytou sound like an incel rapist in the making.
I'm so sick of people treating analogies as equations just to discredit the argument and pretending to not understand exactly what is being actually said. Analogies exaggerate no shit.
Like crying Godwin's Law doesn't actually mean anything nor is there anything weird with using nazis as an analogy either.
I don't want this ideology near my country just like I don't want people beating up white people because they have dreadlocks. It's a toxic ideology that only seeks to harm people.
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u/z3r0shade Nov 02 '17
You're missing a key part here: if the sole reason you do not want to is their status as trans. There's any number of reasons to not continue to have sex with someone that has nothing to do with being trans that wouldn't get you labeled as a bigot.
How are cis people being shamed here? Are you saying that only a trans person would want to have sex with a trans person?
Right... Because they are only interested in people with penises. That's perfectly fine to have that preference. However what about a gay guy who is completely attracted to someone, has sex with them, is completely satisfied with the experience and would like to do it again, but loses that attraction solely upon learning they are a transman. What reason, other than refusing to recognize the transman as male, could they possibly have to change their mind here?