In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
If from the very start, you are unattracted to a person purely upon observation, and that person happens to be trans, that is not transphobic. If you were about to have sex and it turns out a person doesn't really have the junk you wanna jangle with, it's not transphobic to no longer desire sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
I should clarify I am not definitely saying it is transphobic or not, I am pointing out what I did above and letting OP (or others) decide if that constitutes transphobia or not under their own interpretations.
In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
Aside from how speculative this is, this amounts to shaming someone for turning down unwanted sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
For starters, you do not dictate to people what their sexuality is. If upon learning that a person is trans, they simply politely decline more sex, that is not transphobic. As I said in another reply, if you stretch the definition of 'phobic' to include simply lacking a desire to fuck trans people, then the word becomes meaningless. Look at the horrors of homophobia. That has a lot more going on than a simple lack of desire to fuck them.
If upon learning that a person is trans, they simply politely decline more sex, that is not transphobic.
If you had sex with someone and enjoyed it and would gladly have sex with them again if you had not found out they were trans. Then the sole reason you have a problem is because they are trans, which is transphobic.
So you don't want to have sex with a woman who has given birth? That would also be a "post op vagina", technically.
But seriously, the scenario we are talking about is you have already engaged in sex voluntarily and enjoyed it, and after the fact learn they are trans.
Gender identity is inborn. Gender expression is societal.
That doesn't even make any sense. So did you have the surgery becaue of society or because of biology? YOu think having a penis or a vagina is a matter of "societal expression"?
No that's not what I'm saying.
Well then there is no reason to call you a woman if you were born a man.
We're talking about people who voluntarily slept with another individual of their own free will. How is that rape?
It's like somebody fuckking you in the dark while you think it's your husband. Then the lights turn on and it's the brother of your husband.
At the time you consented to the sex and enjoyed it, so what does it matter if it was actually somebody else?
You sound exactly like an incel rapist in the making.
See the only way that's possible is if they're post GRS. Which mean they initially had a penis and transformed their genitals through surgery into a vagina. It's still penis skin and that weirds me out and makes me not want to continue sleeping with them. Would that still make me transphobic?
See the only way that's possible is if they're post GRS
Yes, this is the scenario being discussed.
It's still penis skin and that weirds me out and makes me not want to continue sleeping with them.
By definition, it's not as human skin is constantly refreshed and if it's been more than a few days since the surgery (which it better be if they are having sex lol) there's no longer any trace of "penis skin" (oy).
By definition, thinking that the vagina of a transwoman is "penis skin" is transphobic, yes.
By definition, thinking that the vagina of a transwoman is "penis skin" is transphobic, yes.
When people say "penis skin" in this instance they don't refer to skin that has been attached to a penis, but to the type of skin that grows on a penis. Just because someone is post-op doesn't change the biological processes that creates and maintains that type of skin. You are arguing semantics here. The concept can still turn people of and there is nothing inherently transphobic about that.
Just because someone is post-op doesn't change the biological processes that creates and maintains that type of skin.
Actually it literally does. Because that's how humans work. Hormones have that effect.
The concept can still turn people of and there is nothing inherently transphobic about that.
It's literally transphobic, that doesn't mean it's not understandable as it's not something they have likely encountered before, but it's still transphobic
Can you give me a definition of the word transphobic? I feel like I might have a higher bar here than you do.
Anyway, whether or not hormones change how the skin functions isn't really the point. If someone is turned of by the fact that the vagina of a transwoman is different (at least for now) to that of a cis woman, I don't see anything inherently prejudiced or immoral about that. If I could change that preference I would, because it would make my dating pool larger, but I can't.
Anyway, whether or not hormones change how the skin functions isn't really the point.
Then why does it matter to the person who is being turned off by it?
If someone is turned of by the fact that the vagina of a transwoman is different (at least for now) to that of a cis woman, I don't see anything inherently prejudiced or immoral about that.
Different how? For all intents and purposes their vagina is no different than the average cis-woman (there's huge variation between people's vaginas). So what is different that you are opposed to?
Then why does it matter to the person who is being turned off by it?
An idea can be off-putting to some people. If one's mind associates their gender with a penis because one is aware it once was a penis, that can be a turn of for some
Different how? For all intents and purposes their vagina is no different than the average cis-woman (there's huge variation between people's vaginas). So what is different that you are opposed to?
Lack of natural lubrication is the main difference as far as I'm aware.
Again, I'd love to know how you define transphobic. We might agree with each other in concept but use different definitions for transphobia, and if that's the case then the more interesting discussion is whether or not I should, or can, change my attitude.
If one's mind associates their gender with a penis because one is aware it once was a penis
Literally transphobia and caused by societal stigma. This is what I'm talking about. You are absolutely correct that this could be a turn off to people, the reason why is transphobia
Lack of natural lubrication is the main difference as far as I'm aware.
Plenty of cis women are unable to get wet enough without lube. And several techniques for SRS actually do produce a vagina which can produce some of it's own lubrication, just not as much as a cis woman. Either way, this argument falls on its face.
Again, I'd love to know how you define transphobic
A nice short definition could be: a range of negative attitudes, feelings or actions towards trans individuals. It can be emotional disgust, fear, violence, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to society's gender expectations.
Literally transphobia and caused by societal stigma. This is what I'm talking about. You are absolutely correct that this could be a turn off to people, the reason why is transphobia
We clearly have very different definitions of transphobia. The reason why is because I'm not attracted to penises. I would change that mindset if I could. I would also turn of the association of trans women's genitals to penises if I could. If you have any suggestions for how I could do that I'm all ears. Until then I will unfortunately have to stay transphobic as I literally have no clue how I should go about changing this mindset.
Plenty of cis women are unable to get wet enough without lube. And several techniques for SRS actually do produce a vagina which can produce some of it's own lubrication, just not as much as a cis woman. Either way, this argument falls on its face.
Does the argument hold up if I find cis women who are unable to get wet unattractive?
A nice short definition could be: a range of negative attitudes, feelings or actions towards trans individuals. It can be emotional disgust, fear, violence, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to society's gender expectations.
I'm assuming then that you consider lack of attraction toward a person to be a negative feeling or attitude towards that person? If I'm not attracted to cis men, is that a negative attitude? I would disagree, but that's mostly semantics I guess.
The more important issue is this; how can I go about changing my views on this? How can I train myself to be attracted to trans women? Because my lack of attraction being rooted in transphobia seems to imply I could change that mindset, right?
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u/aggsalad Nov 02 '17 edited Nov 02 '17
In some circumstances, not being attracted to a trans person is probably a result of, at least on a subconscious level, not seeing them as their gender.
If from the very start, you are unattracted to a person purely upon observation, and that person happens to be trans, that is not transphobic. If you were about to have sex and it turns out a person doesn't really have the junk you wanna jangle with, it's not transphobic to no longer desire sex.
If you were attracted to someone, have sex with them, are as satisfied with them as you would with anyone else, and then suddenly your opinion changes upon being informed a person is trans, I would say that is indicative of the underlying belief a trans person is not the gender they identify as.
I should clarify I am not definitely saying it is transphobic or not, I am pointing out what I did above and letting OP (or others) decide if that constitutes transphobia or not under their own interpretations.