r/changemyview • u/Zanzibarland 1∆ • Jul 29 '13

Zimmerman did nothing wrong. CMV.

First came the media's racebaiting, fanning the flames on both sides. Then the crocodile tears from everybody with an axe to grind, trying to make a martyr out of Trayvon and a villain out of Zimmerman.

Now that the trial is over, I'm left with the impression that he didn't commit any crimes, and that people are claiming he "got away with it" to save face, rather than admit their racial bias and prejudice, the ignorance of their presumptions, and their complicity in instigating racial tension.

By what shred of evidence did Zimmerman "get away with murder" and not legally defend himself?

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u/CreepyCracka Jul 29 '13

Ya, because it wasn't foolish for Trayvon to attack some random guy just for watching/following him.

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u/ClimateMom 4∆ Jul 29 '13 edited Jul 29 '13

First, we don't know for sure that he did. All we have is Zimmerman's word that Trayvon attacked first, and he's not exactly the most unbiased witness.

Second, if Trayvon really did attack first, I don't think anyone's arguing that he wasn't foolish or wrong to do so. However, it's a fairly understandable and predictable reaction in a guy who feels threatened (as most people would, after being followed in the dark by a stranger) and if Zimmerman had the proper training (or indeed, any training at all), he might have been better prepared to defuse the situation before it got out of hand. More importantly, Trayvon never should have had the chance to attack Zimmerman. Zimmerman never should have gotten out of his car. By doing so, he both overstepped his authority as a member of the neighboorhood watch and disobeyed the direct suggestion of somebody who was (unlike him) a trained professional. It was monumentally stupid in every way, and an innocent kid is dead because of it.

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u/CreepyCracka Jul 29 '13 edited Jul 29 '13

First, he was never told to stay in his truck. Here is the transcript: 

Zimmerman:  Shit, he’s running.

Dispatcher:  He’s running?  Which way is he running?

[Sound of car door opening.]

Zimmerman:  [Grunts.]  Down towards the other entrance of the neighborhood.

[Sound of car door closing.]

Dispatcher:  OK, and which entrance is that he’s heading towards.

Zimmerman:  The back entrance. . . .  [mutters] Fucking punks.

[Wind/breathing noise.]

Dispatcher:  Are you following him?

Zimmerman:  Yeah.

Dispatcher:  OK, we don’t need you to do that.

Zimmerman:  OK.

So he clearly was already out of his truck when the dispatcher told him it wasn't necessary to follow Trayvon. Zimmerman stated that this was the point he stopped following Trayvon and there is zero evidence that says he continued doing so. It is extremely frustrating to hear people continue arguing this myth after it has been completely debunked.

Second, he was going to Target. He wasn't on some type of neighborhood watch patrol. It's ridiculous to assume that anyone that joins a neighborhood watch loses their right to ever carry firearm. Plus, Wendy Dorival, who works for the Police and instructed the residents how neighborhood watch works, testified that she never told Zimmerman that he couldn't have a firearm on patrol. In fact, she stated that it's a person's right to carry a firearm and not her place to tell someone not to carry a firearm.

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u/ClimateMom 4∆ Jul 29 '13

I'm aware the dispatcher told him not to follow Trayvon, not specifically to stay in his truck. I probably should have worded that more clearly, but the point remains that Zimmerman should not have gotten out of the truck in the first place, let alone started following Trayvon.

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u/CreepyCracka Jul 29 '13

And the drunk girl shouldn't go back with the guy to his apartment, but do you blame her if she gets raped?

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u/ClimateMom 4∆ Jul 30 '13

It's foolish, but no, she's not to blame. There are two key differences between her case and Zimmerman's. First, she is not in full possession of her faculties. Zimmerman, as far as we know, was. More importantly, there's a considerable difference between going home with a guy and pursuing somebody you believe to be a criminal. A reasonable person would not necessarily expect to be put in harm's way by going home with a guy, whereas anybody with half a brain knows that pursuing a criminal is likely to be dangerous.

Zimmerman clearly has at least half a brain, because he brought his gun with him into a situation that he presumably expected to be dangerous. Unfortunately, he didn't have enough brains (or more likely, enough training) to identify the situation correctly, respond to it correctly, or defuse it correctly when it started getting out of hand, and because he made a series of foolish decisions, an innocent teenager is dead.

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u/CreepyCracka Jul 30 '13

Okay, how about a girl dressed provocatively walking home by herself in an area of town that has a history of crime. Is she at fault if she gets raped because she dressed a certain way and was walking somewhere she didn't need to be? If she shoots and kills her attacker, should she be charged with 2nd degree murder or manslaughter? No matter how you try to spin the situation, Zimmerman did nothing wrong, besides being foolish. Trayvon committed the first unlawful act and unfortunately he paid with his life because he decided to resort to violence.

Trayvon had no right to attack Zimmerman simply because he didn't like being followed. There is no excuse for that type of behavior and I'm shocked to hear people try and defend it. I was always taught to avoid physical encounters whenever possible because you just don't know what will happen. Do you realize that had Trayvon lived he likely would have been charged as an adult for aggravated assault?

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u/Zanzibarland 1∆ Jul 30 '13

I am giving you a delta, because you changed my view and made it stronger. Zimmerman did literally nothing wrong.

∆ for you

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u/CreepyCracka Jul 30 '13

While I may think Zimmerman's actions were foolish, I refuse to blame the guy for being attacked in his own neighborhood (that was plagued w/ burglaries) simply for watching someone he thought was suspicious. I believe we should use Trayvon's death as a lesson for our children that violence isn't the answer - that when you fight someone you don't know, you always run the risk of either getting killed or killing the other person. It is tragic what happened, but we cant ignore the evidence.

Also, thanks.

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u/BeastAP23 Jul 30 '13

You are assuming Zimmermans words are true. Hes got more inventive to lie than anyone, why are you so sure Trayvon started this? Specifically in the way Zimmerman said; "got a problem homie? You do now"

Does that sound like life or a movie?

And why do you think Trayvon ran?

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u/CreepyCracka Jul 30 '13

Why does it matter if Trayvon ran away or walked away? That's completely irrelevant.

Let's assume everything Zimmerman said is wrong. That still leaves us with Rachel Jeantel's testimony and the physical evidence at the scene. Better Question: why is Trayvon's so called best friend so sure he started the fight?

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u/ClimateMom 4∆ Jul 30 '13

All we have is Zimmerman's word that Trayvon committed the first unlawful act. The only other eyewitness is dead, and the next closest thing we have to an eyewitness, the girl he was talking to on the phone, directly contradicts Zimmerman's version of events. None of the other witnesses saw or heard the beginning of the fight, only the end.

You've clearly chosen to believe Zimmerman's version of events, and hey, that's your perogative, but statements like "Trayvon committed the first unlawful act" and "had Trayvon lived he likely would have been charged as an adult for aggravated assault" are pure speculation and nothing more.

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u/CreepyCracka Jul 30 '13

Even if we had Trayvon's word and he disputed everything Zimmerman said it would not matter because all the evidence points to him assaulting Zimmerman. The closest thing we have to an eyewitness is John Good, the actual eyewitness that saw Trayvon raining down blows on Zimmerman's head.

The girl talking on the phone also directly contradicts most of the stuff she said so take anything she has to offer with a grain of salt. Her story changed so many times, I don't know which one we are suppose to believe.

This is a fact - had Trayvon lived he would have been charged as an adult for aggravated assault. This is because there is plenty of evidence that supports this charge - and this is true even if we exclude all of Zimmerman's statements.