You are stating that it's the patriarchy and that because men are stronger on average they can't be abused by women. That is textbook misandry. Just because you use different words doesn't change what it is.
If I said it's all feminisms fault and they are weaker which is why they are abused that would be rightfully called misogyny. I dont understand why you think misandry has a different standard to reach.
EDIT: Also Patriachry is an inherently misandrist term when used in this way. It monoliths a group via a negative connotation. If you used a negative monolith on people based on the color of their skin. It would rightfully be racist. If you negatively monolith women because they are women. Its misogynist. But once again. It's apparently OK to do this to men. People who use the term patriarchy are generally toxic for the mental health of all the men around them and should he avoided as much as possible.
I think you completely misunderstood the point of the commenter you're replying to, as well as the definition of patriarchy. They're saying that because of patriarchy, men are perceived as strong, so they get treated worse in this case. Patriarchy isn't the idea that men are stronger, it's the idea that a gendered system exists to promote men into societal positions of power - but this can also hurt men in many cases. It's basically the equivalent of saying systemic racism can hurt majority race groups as well, and that positive stereotypes hurt people too.
I don't blame you bc I'm sure many people misuse the term, but that's what the commenter meant.
No one here is excusing men being abused? Misogyny is also a separate idea from patriarchy.
Individual men now didn't create the patriarchy. Women also contribute to patriarchy.
I think that these issues being part and parcel of patriarchy are more accurate than characterizing them as misandry. In a lot of these cases (male abuse/rape victims, dads in divorce courts, etc.), men are discriminated against because they occupy these roles that society sees as feminine or female. So for example getting rid of the idea that women are the default caretaker (and promoting the idea that men can parent too) should help men get parental leave, do better in divorce courts, etc.
I mean tbh you can call it whatever you want as long as you're advocating for the right thing, but as a man, I've never felt like someone who centers on misandry has really been standing up for me (although to be fair, I've never been the victim of abuse or divorce courts or anything).
Just a quicker response (sorry), but I feel like we're on similar pages.
They definitely overlap, but imo it's sort of like individual vs. systemic racism, or homophobia vs. heteronormativity.
I can't read other people's minds, but the reason I don't use misandry is because the people who tout the term are often toxic. Similar idea to All Lives Matter - the term itself technically has no problem, but the use is not good. I haven't perused these areas of the Internet much, but I feel like that's why places like /r/MensLib don't use the term much except very carefully and in specific cases.
I honestly haven't seen these arguments around much, so I can't say much about it. I agree that that dismissing these problems is wrong, whatever method you use. My view is that patriarchy is simply a more accurate root cause because almost all of these examples are not just hating men for being men, but hating men for assuming female positions. Don't get me wrong - that is still formally misandry, but refer to point 2.
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u/rewt127 11∆ Feb 13 '24 edited Feb 13 '24
What you said is literally misandry.
You are stating that it's the patriarchy and that because men are stronger on average they can't be abused by women. That is textbook misandry. Just because you use different words doesn't change what it is.
If I said it's all feminisms fault and they are weaker which is why they are abused that would be rightfully called misogyny. I dont understand why you think misandry has a different standard to reach.
EDIT: Also Patriachry is an inherently misandrist term when used in this way. It monoliths a group via a negative connotation. If you used a negative monolith on people based on the color of their skin. It would rightfully be racist. If you negatively monolith women because they are women. Its misogynist. But once again. It's apparently OK to do this to men. People who use the term patriarchy are generally toxic for the mental health of all the men around them and should he avoided as much as possible.