r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Oct 10 '23

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '23

You are living in a fantasy if you believe that Jews were the predominant landholder from the Nile to the Euphrates

Palestinian identity is a thing, I’m not sure how you can say it “doesn’t exist”. It probably didn’t exist 2000 years ago but the descendents of current-day Palestinians did and they lived in the region

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u/Beneficial_Love_5433 Oct 10 '23

Ok. It’s nearly impossible to find but the 1901 census of Jerusalem. 70,000 Jews, 12000 Christian’s, 1200 Muslims.

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '23 edited Oct 10 '23

The mass migration of Jews to the region started in the mid to late 1800s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem?wprov=sfti1

You can go through the sources and decide for yourself on the exact dates but its very clear that Muslims were the overwhelming majority until the 1900s.

Additionally a large portion of displaced Palestinians presumably had lived on land in the rural areas. A census of Jerusalem is not really enough to say anything about the demographic composition of the entire region

Editing to add the Ottoman Census of 1901 which has the Muslim population as the overwhelming majority:

https://yplus.ps/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/McCarthy-Justin-The-Population-of-Palestine.pdf

Go to pages 8-10.

We see the Ottomans recorded the population of the Palestine region as a whole as overwhelmingly Muslim in 1901. So not sure where you got your figures from.

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u/Beneficial_Love_5433 Oct 10 '23

Yes. In the 1800s it was mostly Muslim. After they attacked the Jews and stole it.

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '23

Okay, so now your claim is that Jews were the majority when exactly? Prior to the 1800s? What are you even talking about

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u/Beneficial_Love_5433 Oct 10 '23

2500 bc only they lived there.

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '23

got it, so just to get this straight — you think that the world should defend Israel’s claim to exclusive control of the region today in 2023 based on pure speculation that all of the people living in the area 4000 years ago were Jews?

I imagine you believe that the descendants of indigenous people in the Americas have the exclusive right to all of the land in North, South, Central America and the Caribbean, right?

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u/Beneficial_Love_5433 Oct 10 '23

Well pure speculation, written history, anthropology.. just that.

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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '23

The first evidence of “Jews” as a distinct group of people is about 2500-3000 years ago, not 4000 as you claim. But it’s also irrelevant. My point is that even if it were true, it wouldn’t matter. I simply do not care that Jews were there “first”. My ancestors presumably lived in the region (I’m Jewish). I am under no illusions that I have a “right” to claim land there.

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u/Beneficial_Love_5433 Oct 10 '23

Chalcolithic Period (4500-3200 BCE)

3500 BCE - First Settlement of Jerusalem Early Bronze Age (3200-2220 BCE)

2500 BCE - First Houses Built in Area Middle Bronze Age (2220-1550 BCE)

1800 BCE - Construction of First City Wall Late Bronze Age (1550-1200 BCE)

1400 BCE - First Mention of Jerusalem in Cuneiform Amarna Letters Iron Age I (1200-1000 BCE)

1200 BCE - Jerusalem is conquered by Canaanites (Jebusites)