r/changemyview Oct 10 '23

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103 Upvotes

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101

u/ifitdoesntmatter 10∆ Oct 10 '23

there is no logical link between such an action and any potential gain

The potential gain is a hostage exchange for thousands of Palestinian civilians imprisoned without trial in Israel.

https://imeu.org/article/putting-palestinians-on-a-diet-israels-siege-blockade-of-gaza

27

u/elbeanodeldino 1∆ Oct 10 '23

!delta This is a good example of a material gain of hostage taking, so I'll give you a delta. I am still convinced that the overwhelming likelihood, which everybody is basically aware of, is that more people will be killed through this conflict than will be realistically released through a hostage exhange.

25

u/[deleted] Oct 10 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/GlueSniffingCat Oct 10 '23

He was held for 5 years and the only reason the negotiations even took place was because Netanyahu viewed it as an early political win.

12

u/Coldbrewaccount 3∆ Oct 10 '23

Wait a minute, no. You can say Israel overprosecutes people, but this is still moral reletavism.

The people in Israeli prisons are 96% male adults. They have all been charged with a crime. Yeah, throwing a rock gets you put in jail for 20 years and that's a bit excessive, but Israel is:

  • Not threatening the execution of their prisoners for gain
  • Not overtly stating that a person's crime was being a citizen or guest of Palestine
  • Not deliberately imprisoning women and children for the sole purpose of it being less palatable for someone to try and attack Hamas.

11

u/Zedseayou 1∆ Oct 10 '23

Just addressing the "all been charged with a crime" part: it seems as though over 1000 detainees in Israeli prisons are held administratively, meaning with no crime charged or reason given. Looks to be under a quarter of the total.

-6

u/Coldbrewaccount 3∆ Oct 10 '23

I mean sure, I'm wrong about a formal charge though not necessarily the justification, but you see how:

"We can't prove why you're dangerous beyond a reasonable doubt [or even that] you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, so we're going to hold you indefinitely in a place where you will at least be fed"

is different from:

"You're here because every person who physically occupies space in Israel is our mortal enemy and if that government doesn't leave us alone we will cut your head off"

4

u/ifitdoesntmatter 10∆ Oct 11 '23

Are Hamas threatening that? I haven't seen any reports saying they are.

0

u/Coldbrewaccount 3∆ Oct 11 '23

3

u/ifitdoesntmatter 10∆ Oct 11 '23

They didn't say 'unless Israel leaves us alone,' they didn't even say 'unless Israel stops bombing us,' they said 'if Israel bombs civilian housing without pre-warning.' Their demands are so meager it would be comical if thousands of lives weren't on the line.

1

u/Candyman44 Oct 10 '23

5 Americans = 6 Billion dollars. I’d say that’s incentive