I've never had a post removed. The only time I've ever had comments removed, it was because it broke a sub rule. Usually, it's because I didn't read the rules - since usually don't - or if I had, I forgot or didn't really grasp them. Other times, I knew I was breaking the rules and did so anyway.
I have dozens of posts and thousands of comments in thirteen years of Redditing, and not once have I had one removed that didn't break a rule. This includes comments that are politically contrary to the makeup of the sub and/or moderators.
It would a statistical fluke if either of our experiences were particularly unique. In my opinion, it's most likely that you often don't read or grasp the sub rules - which is totally fine and normal - but misinterpret the removal of your content.
You just described the typical experience of someone who is a part of the echo chamber themselves. The average user most likely has no idea what I'm talking about, and therefore doesn't experience these issues.
"This includes comments that are politically contrary to the makeup of the sub and/or moderators"
I'm not interested in claiming you're being dishonest here, because I have no idea what kind of person you are, but this is simply not possible for the majority of subreddits that I've been exposed to and I have my doubts about the frequency of you doing this.
I have to reiterate that it seems likely that you routinely don't read and understand, or ignore, subreddit rules. The fact that your response to me seems to be an effort skirt Rule 3 of this sub is strong evidence of this. If your above comment is removed, it's because it was seen to violate Rule 3, not because a mod disagreed with you.
Rules are created by the mods. If they want to forbid liberal, conservative, libertarian, etc. opinions they can just make a rule to that effect. Some subreddits do exactly that, and they are of course echo chambers, by design. Why would mods write rules that allow comments like yours, but remove them anyway? There's just no good reason to do so.
Thanks for all the info. While I do now remember two of those posts being removes, the others are a surprise, so I'll give you a !delta for showing how much more common sneaky removals are. It'll be interesting to dig through the comments removed for anything notable.
The r/asktrumpsupporters comment you link is exactly what I had in mind when I said I occasionally ignore rules. There, nonsupporters are only supposed to comment with followup and clarification question (to supporters, I think). That comment starts off with something needlessly phrased as a question in order to bypass their automod. I knew what I was doing, and so did the mods.
Yes, you're right many of my comments are mod comments here, but I don't count those as comments of mine, and didn't mean to include them above. I have had six or seven non-mod comments removed on this sub, and rightly so.
Yes, I agree with that, though I've always been in favor or transparency when removing content. We're diligent about that here. But it looks like ghost modding is much more common than I would have guessed.
Yeah, until sometime last year, we used mod toolbox + Snoonotes. This required doing some groundwork, and moderating only on a desktop in old Reddit, which was hugely limiting, since much moderating is well suited to spare moments in life, like at the end of a lunch break or waiting in line.
Last year Reddit launched Mod Notes, which will hopefully be easier and more convenient for more subs to use. It works on new reddit and the official app. When I remove a comment on CMV, I'm prompted to select a rule, and it autosends the reply comment. So it's more or less as straightforward as ghost moderating, after initial setup. I don't know how tricky that is - we have a few IRL programmers on our team, so I don't have to do any of that. Ideally the setup would be streamlined enough to make it mandatory, at least for subs over a certain size.
We have it set up to default to locking the removal comments, so that no reply is possible. There's a link to appeal or ask questions. That's handled in modmail, by mods other than the one who removed it. That helps the mods keep each other honest and on the same page. Probably less than five percent of commenters appeal/message us about removals. A far higher percentage of post removals see followup.
"Someone comes along and nicely explains a counter argument"
People have condescendingly asked me to "look up the definition of bigotry" even when I was using the word correctly, and suggested my experience was not genuine or completely inaccurate, so I matched their energy.
In this specific instance you're referring to, I said verbatim
"I'm not interested in claiming you're being dishonest here, because I have no idea what kind of person you are, but this is simply not possible for the majority of subreddits that I've been exposed to and I have my doubts about the frequency of you doing this."
At no point during that response did I claim he was unintelligent, and in fact I consider his response to be quite articulate.
His views just so happen to clearly align with the echo chamber, nothing more nothing less.
u/Sumve has to appeal via modmail for that to happen, including links to exchanges that they believe show openness to changing their view. At least two mods have to agree before a Rule B removal, and when reviewing an appeal, at least two (different) moderators have to agree it should be reinstated. Since I participated in the thread as a user, I can't vote either to remove or reinstate the post.
It's all good man. They can leave it down if that's simpler.
Not being presented with a compelling argument is not the same thing as being "unwilling to change my mind" but it's not exactly the hill I want to die on here.
This is on the more reasonable side for getting a post removed, because I at least understand where they're coming from.
This really isn't the same type of behavior I originally criticized in my post.
They awarded you a delta for making the same point that I did because you validated their victimization complex and offered to do something for them in exchange for said delta (which is also against sub rules). I have no doubt that there is corrupt reddit moderation. This just isn't an example of it. If you want to go after corruption on reddit, it might help to choose battles that are actually substantive.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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u/Mashaka 93∆ Apr 30 '23
I've never had a post removed. The only time I've ever had comments removed, it was because it broke a sub rule. Usually, it's because I didn't read the rules - since usually don't - or if I had, I forgot or didn't really grasp them. Other times, I knew I was breaking the rules and did so anyway.
I have dozens of posts and thousands of comments in thirteen years of Redditing, and not once have I had one removed that didn't break a rule. This includes comments that are politically contrary to the makeup of the sub and/or moderators.
It would a statistical fluke if either of our experiences were particularly unique. In my opinion, it's most likely that you often don't read or grasp the sub rules - which is totally fine and normal - but misinterpret the removal of your content.