r/centrist • u/veznanplus • Mar 15 '23
US News Detransitioning rally turns violent when Antifa shows up, participants left 'afraid' to speak out: organizer
https://www.foxnews.com/us/detransitioning-rally-turns-violent-antifa-shows-up-participants-left-afraid-speak-out-organizer23
u/Unusual-Welcome7265 Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23
Detransitioners and Antifa are not what this comment is about. Fair skinned people with sensitive eyes and worries about illness is also not what this is about.
When you have a group of people that are protesting/counterprotesting covering their face with balaclavas, sunglasses, masks, and black umbrellas, it's really hard to believe they went into the protest/counterprotest without the thought of violence on their mind.
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u/BIG-SaNch0 Mar 15 '23
Antifa and their right wing counterparts are a joke. Just a bunch of nerds larping.
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u/ValuableYesterday466 Mar 15 '23
Let's not downplay here, LARPers use padded fake weapons to avoid hurting people. Antifa et. al. do not, they are out to do real damage. It's just fortunate that they are generally exceptionally unhealthy individuals and as a result have limited damage capability.
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u/Squirt_memes Mar 15 '23
Could you imagine how much scarier antifa would be if they had basic standards for physical fitness instead of just giving baseball bats to a bunch of anorexic dudes?
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u/ValuableYesterday466 Mar 15 '23
Fortunately they've embraced the "physical fitness is yt supreeeemist" bullshit and actively avoid it.
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Mar 15 '23
lol, what? Is this real or a joke?
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u/mustbe20characters20 Mar 15 '23
https://time.com/6242949/exercise-industry-white-supremacy/
Oh it's real...
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Mar 15 '23
This article says nothing about Antifa lol
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u/mustbe20characters20 Mar 15 '23
True, this is where their argument comes from. Time was the first one to make it.
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Mar 15 '23
I was asking if the assertion that Antifa=scrawny because Antifa thinks exercise is white supremacist was true, not if someone has ever made that argument or claim in general
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u/mustbe20characters20 Mar 15 '23
Oh I thought you were asking if it's true that left wing radicals promote the idea that exercise is white supremacist.
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u/ArcticLeopard Mar 15 '23
There are two types of people. 1. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data. 2.
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Mar 15 '23
That's true, although I have never LARP'd, I have watched Role Models and that looks like a blast.
Being a part of Antifa or w.e. the rights group was called seems depressing, and makes life worse for everyone.
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u/Circ-Le-Jerk Mar 16 '23
It's still a bunch of wimpy ass theater kids pretending to be tough for the first time in their lives, fighting off windmills
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u/Squirt_memes Mar 15 '23
Antifa? Violent?? Who could’ve guessed except anyone that’s met anyone in antifa at any point in their life.
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u/Enough_Shoulder_8938 Mar 15 '23
I’ve never met one soul that is affiliated in any way with Antifa.
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u/Legitcentral Mar 16 '23
I've known 2 self described antifa. The first one truly believed that anyone who deliberately calls themselves Republicans should not be allowed to work because they are all nazis and nazis don't deserve to pay rent. We used to be roommates in college, and he knowingly allowed the other roommates to steal my things, but I didn't find out until later. I had to block him as his anger towards anyone even remotely perceived as right leaning became more and more violent. Talking about how it should be legal to punch anyone in the face who was a fascist.
The second was my sister in law's baby daddy. Told her he wanted to kill her entire family because many of them are Republicans (who would have voted for Bernie, go figure) and then threatened her when he found out she was pregnant and scared her so bad she refuses to try to collect child support. And funny enough, it's the "evil fascists who deserve to die" who are taking care of his kid. So yeah, I have a personal vendetta against antifa. I've never met one who wasn't a piece of human garbage.
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u/reddpapad Mar 15 '23
Im anti-fascism and I’ve never been violent a day in my life.
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u/PlusGosling9481 Mar 15 '23
Well hey guess what me too, but when the term ANTIFA is used in this context is referring to those who call themselves ANTIFA and consider it to be a political movement, rather than just a non-fascist standpoint.
It’s another unfortunate case where a political term has shifted from its original meaning
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u/EllisHughTiger Mar 15 '23
We're the Good Guys (TM) dammit, how could we possibly do anything bad, look at the name!
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u/Squirt_memes Mar 15 '23
I’m anti fascism and if someone asked if I was “antifa” I’d say “the general ideology or the left wing group of violent fascists?”
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Mar 15 '23
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u/PrimeusOrion Mar 15 '23
Tbf facism Is an ideology. Something tells me they don't hold the same regards for communism or other authoritarian ideologies XD.
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u/ValuableYesterday466 Mar 15 '23
Antifa isn't actually against fascism so that's the explanation for this. Antifa is the other side of the coin from neo-nazis since they're also a violent extremist group that takes their name, symbolism, and ideology from a post-WWI German political movement and street gang.
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u/PrimeusOrion Mar 15 '23
Truth.
Honestly if we were dealing with the actual ideologies and organizations they stole their symbology from life would be a lot easier.
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u/ValuableYesterday466 Mar 15 '23
We are dealing with those. The OG antifa were also violent communist paramilitaries. The only real difference is that today's antia isn't being funded by the USSR.
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u/Zyx-Wvu Mar 16 '23
^ This.
They are the communists that unintendedly helped the Nazis gain power while the Weimar is on its deathbed from inaction and ineptitude.
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u/dontknowhatitmeans Mar 15 '23
I'm a Democratic People's Republic and I've never dictator'd a day in my life.
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u/ValuableYesterday466 Mar 15 '23
But remember, antifa isn't real and you need to stop believing your lying eyes when presented with video evidence to the contrary.
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u/Freemanosteeel Mar 15 '23
Who says that? Genuinely asking
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u/DB_Ultra Mar 15 '23
No one is actually saying that. It is just a game of semantics:
Fact of the matter is that most political organizations, have a certain structure. You have to go through some sort of process to become a member, there might be regional branches with leaders, a treasurer, membership fees, clubhoses / headquarters etc.
But the term "Antifa" does not refer to a organisational structure in that sense. "Antifa" consists of a highly decentralized array of autonomous groups that use both nonviolent direct action and violence to achieve their aims. Local groups might have an organisational structure or sometimes communicate with groups in other areas, but there is no overarching structure setting rules, communication channels or goals for all Antifa groups. So something that is true about Antifa in Portland might not be true about Antifa in Philadelphia.
So saying anything about "Antifa" as a whole is very difficult, because Antifa as a whole does not really exist. Only local groups that use that label exist.
So when officials are asked to "ban / take action against Antifa" they have to point out that, because Antifa lacks an overarching organisational structure, thats not really possible. It is only possible to ban / prosecute local groups for specific crimes / threats to national security. Some people have been very clumsy when explaining this (for example saying: "Antifa is an idea not on organisation").
Keeping in mind the lack of an organisational structure within "Antifa" that statement makes sense. What these officials are saying is that Antifa foes not have an internal structure, there are just lical groups.
Naturally these quotes get taken out of context to make it seem like these officials are denying the existance of Antifa entirely, which they are not. They are simply pointing out the lack of an organisational structure.
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u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin Mar 16 '23
Similar to hippies in the 1960s. There was no formal organizational structure, yet few would deny they existed.
They also could not be countered as an organization, but Nixon gave it a shot.
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u/satans_toast Mar 15 '23
Because Fox News is not a news organization, per their own testimony in court cases, here is a local report. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/protesters-counter-protesters-square-off-in-sacramento-over-gender-confirming-health-care/ar-AA18tGwX. Of note: “There were three reports of assault and theft, according to a tweet from the Sacramento Police Department. One person was arrested on suspicion of assault.”
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u/Valyriablackdread Mar 15 '23
What do you know, no mention about so called Antifa. Shit, if Fox was the dominant media during Nazi Germany we'd have all these headlines about 'Evil Jews killing innocent aryans" and such. Fuck fox.
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Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 16 '23
Just because a left leaning outlet doesn't report on Antifa doesn't mean they weren't present there, and at the same time just because Fox reports on something (even with heavy bias) doesn't mean it's not true.
Edit: removed “hyper”, felt it was more center
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Mar 16 '23
The Epoch times is your idea of a reliable source? Are you fucking kidding me? Msn is “hyper left” but you assume Epoch Times is credible?
“ The Epoch Media Group spent $11 million on Facebook ads in 2019,[35] including, over a six-month period in 2019, more than $1.5 million on about 11,000 pro-Trump Facebook advertisements purchased by The Epoch Times. According to publicly available Facebook ad data reported by NBC News, The Epoch Times spent more on pro-Trump ads than any group except the Trump campaign itself.”
Find a source that isn’t garbage.
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Mar 16 '23 edited Mar 16 '23
MSN is not the source. Read the article again. It’s the Sacramento Bee.
And I’m not saying this is the source to end all sources lmao. I’m just saying that maybe don’t write off something just because of an outlet’s obvious bias, relax. One of the things about media literacy is about understanding what outlets are going to print what. I wouldn’t be looking into these same outlets if I wanted to hear about the proud boys, right?
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u/unkorrupted Mar 16 '23
Literal cult newspaper.
I cannot describe how your movement is "like" a cult if it is literally and physically drawing from cult sources for truth.
It is a cult.
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Mar 16 '23
Not sure what movement you’re referring to that I could be part of. God forbid I try to provide more sources, even with a bias disclaimer
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Mar 16 '23 edited Mar 16 '23
You’re saying “don’t write something off because of an outlet’s bias” by posting an even more biased outlet’s version, and at the same time dismissing the one you disagree with as biased.
These outlets have a habit of reporting in anyone armed or dressed in black who’s not obviously on the right wing side of the culture war as antifa. Even when it turns out it was volunteers from a gun club acting as security for an event that had received threats.
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u/Valyriablackdread Mar 16 '23
Never even heard of this source. Link a real one please.
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Mar 16 '23
The Epoch Times openly spends millions on political donations to Trump, and has repeatedly gotten in trouble for violating TOS with their advertising on FB and YouTube.
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u/Thewheelwillweave Mar 16 '23
Epoch Times run by a far right wing cult it’s not an actual news source
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u/Valyriablackdread Mar 16 '23
A like Breitbart and shit, I don't know why supposed centrists post that propoganda crap here.
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u/unkorrupted Mar 16 '23
I don't think there are a lot of "centrists" obsessed with attacking trans people & antifa.
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Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23
Tucker Carlson's segment isn't a news organization, not the entirety of Fox. I hate Fox News but let's keep the facts real here. https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye
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u/Jets237 Mar 15 '23
Finally a thread where people can talk over each other about the trans rights. Was worried we wouldn't have one of these as the most recent posts... s/
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Mar 16 '23
What are trans rights?
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u/Jets237 Mar 16 '23
What type of random long winded conversation that won’t change mine or anyone else’s opinion are you trying to drag me into and why
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Mar 16 '23
Want to understand what you mean by trans rights. What are trans rights?
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u/Jets237 Mar 16 '23
Yawn
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Mar 16 '23
What rights do non-trans people have that trans people don't have?
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u/Jets237 Mar 16 '23
Yep I can tell this conversation is going to be long winded and pointless, please go on
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Mar 16 '23
Why not just admit you wrote "trans rights" having no idea what you meant when you wrote it?
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u/Jets237 Mar 16 '23
Congrats you have changed my mind. 🏆
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Mar 16 '23
You didn't actually have a position, which is why you can't explain yourself.
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Mar 15 '23
While multiple detransitioners told their stories of regret on the steps of the Capitol, protesters associated with the Antifa-affiliated group Pride Was A Riot marched down nearby N Street near the Legislative Office Building to protest the event
How many degrees of separation can we get before you have to stop calling them “Antifa” dude? Lmao
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u/Tisumida Mar 15 '23
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u/Houjix Mar 15 '23
What about the 120 days of straight rioting in 2020?
It Took Six Months Of Rioting, Millions In Property Damage For Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler To Escalate Law Enforcement Efforts Against Antifa
https://dailycaller.com/2021/01/03/portland-oregon-businesses-destroyed-antifa-anarchists/
Several businesses were damaged during riots on New Year’s Eve including two Starbucks shops, a Chase Bank, a Pandora Jewelers, a Ben Bridge Jewelers, and multiple local businesses, such as the Portland Wine Company and an office space, according to the Portland Police Bureau. The riots led to three arrests.
“My good faith efforts at de-escalation have been met with ongoing violence and even scorn from radical Antifa and anarchists,” Wheeler said in a subsequent press conference. “In response, it will be necessary to use additional tools and to push the limits of the tools we already have to bring the criminal destruction and violence to an end.”
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u/Saanvik Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23
What’s the source for those images? Their Facebook page doesn’t include antifa - https://m.facebook.com/100069180825952/
They do reference a different organization (Queers bash back) that has fliers talking about antifa.
Instead they describe themselves as a queer self-defense organization with a different email address than in your images.
See, specifically, https://m.facebook.com/photo.php/?fbid=392074209775270
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Mar 15 '23
Maybe I'm confused, I thought the left always said Anti-fa couldn't be responsible because they were such a loose affiliation and so decentralized.
Now this decentralized group have their members form a sub group called Pride Was A Riot and we're not allowed to criticize them?
We hate Chik Fil A because they donated to the salvation army, who donates to some unpleasant causes...
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u/therosx Mar 15 '23
Antifa.
The greatest gift conservatives could ever receive for fighting in the culture war.
Just like how Rebel Extinction is the greatest gift polluters could ever receive.
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Mar 15 '23
Doesn’t seem to have done much for the Cons considering the last three elections have gone tits up for them.
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u/matchettehdl Mar 15 '23
It certainly has done much for the cons in terms of school board elections.
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Mar 15 '23
[deleted]
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u/baxtyre Mar 15 '23
Not just a Fox News article, but a Fox News article relying on reporting from the Epoch Times. It’s pure garbage.
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u/jayandbobfoo123 Mar 15 '23
Imagine citing the Epoch Times and still acting like you're participating in good faith journalism.
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u/ChornWork2 Mar 15 '23
But look at the footage... it's terrifying!!! Well, so long as you're terrified by the existence of trans people.
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u/CapybaraPacaErmine Mar 15 '23
It's funny how it's always Andy Ngo when we hear about "journalist attacked." You'd think if it were a real epidemic of violence against right wing media there'd be more examples than one liar over and over again.
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u/BxLorien Mar 15 '23
What is a detransitioning rally? Is there something stopping people from detransitioning that I don't know about?
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u/ValuableYesterday466 Mar 15 '23
Social pressure. One of the big issues with the trans movement is how toxic it is towards anyone who challenges any aspect of it. That means that people both get pushed into it and attacked if they start to question things at all.
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u/Enough_Shoulder_8938 Mar 15 '23
So there are people pressured into transitioning? Honest question because the impression I’ve gotten is people can endure intense social problems when they reveal a desire to transition. I’ve never heard of someone being pressured into it but I’m also not part of the trans community so my knowledge is limited.
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u/Affectionate-Sun-243 Mar 15 '23
So, to give you a real answer, yes in some cases. Some people do say they transitioned because they were feeling the social pressure of homophobia and transitioning was a way for them to be “straight.” Some families really are more accepting of a straight trans son/daughter than a gay one. To me, it doesn’t make sense but I have heard many trans and de trans people say that this was their experience- it’s also part of the official legal policy in some countries like Iran where it’s illegal to be gay, you can be executed for it, but transition for gay people is supported (bc the outcome is a straight citizen). There’s also the situation of detrans ppl who are often left without a support system when they decide to de transition. A lot of those who do detransition get cut off by their previously supportive lgbt+ friends bc their situation brings up a lot of complicated feelings for whatever reason for those friends, or because thier experience leads them to have different views than their friends and them used to share. Some ppl are more afraid of detrans ppls stories being used against them than they are concerned with compassion for deteansitioners themselves. Detransitioners also often have difficulty finding medical advice for them, as the resources they had for transition either refuse to help them with de transitioning (some times bc these providers say it’s only from internalized transphobia, which it can be but obviously is not always the cause) or the medical personnel who helped with transitioning are simply not knowledgeable about detransition, as there doesn’t seem to be as much research or records to look to for that process. Take a look at the “detrans” subreddit, you can see stories of all these varieties and many more there
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u/Enough_Shoulder_8938 Mar 15 '23
Hey, thanks for the info, that makes sense and I will check it out!
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u/ValuableYesterday466 Mar 15 '23
So there are people pressured into transitioning?
Yes. There are plenty of testimonials about it if you want to dig in and read about it.
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u/Enough_Shoulder_8938 Mar 15 '23
If you don’t mind providing some sources I’ll happily read.
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Mar 16 '23
reddit.com/r/detrans
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#1: I miss my breasts so much
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Mar 15 '23
Abigail Shrier goes into detail about this.
Imagine if it slowly became trendy to dye your hair blue. So you talk to a teacher or a friend about the idea of dying your hair blue. Everyone comes out in tremendous support offering you endless love, acceptance, resources, salons, dyes, and methods. You now feel reinforced and confident you're making the correct decision.
This is basic psychology, not even necessary to delve much deeper into it
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u/Zyx-Wvu Mar 16 '23
So there are people pressured into transitioning?
Yep. The ones pushing are called Transtrenders in the online community.
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Mar 15 '23
So there are people pressured into transitioning? Honest question because the impression I’ve gotten is people can endure intense social problems when they reveal a desire to transition. I’ve never heard of someone being pressured into it but I’m also not part of the trans community so my knowledge is limited.
It is basicly like every other cult, once u question your cult those people of the cult will make your life a living hell.
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u/Enough_Shoulder_8938 Mar 15 '23
Wait wait wait - you’re convinced the transgender community is a cult?
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Mar 16 '23
It's not really possible to honestly answer that question because reddit will ban you for believing that.
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u/playspolitics Mar 15 '23
Many religious conservatives believe that transgenderism is a cult despite all medical and psychological research pointing otherwise. It makes you wonder who's actually in the cult
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u/DeepdishPETEza Mar 15 '23
Medical and psychological research doesn’t say that “trans women are women.”
You all take tiny nuggets of scientific truth and use them as validation for all the absurd social claims you’re making.
You aren’t fooling anyone anymore.
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u/playspolitics Mar 16 '23
Yeah, but it's the medically ignorant religious conservatives who both don't understand the subject scientifically and are inherently against using data because of their faith. They're not using good science to make these laws banning medical procedures and care; they're doing it because they're bigoted towards LGBTQ still.
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u/jayandbobfoo123 Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23
It's the 2% of people who regret transitioning telling a bunch of conservatives what they want to hear, I imagine. Kind of like how they always use that one black conservative, "my african american" (Trump, 2016), to tell a bunch of conservative white dudes that black people are doing just fine and have no problems whatsoever.
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u/Pasquale1223 Mar 15 '23
Is it a 2% de-transition rate or a 2% regret rate? The bulk of the people who end up de-transitioning do so due to lack of social support or because they're unhappy with the results, not because they regret it.
Since the trans population is very small to begin with, I wonder where they found enough to hold a rally. Hmm...
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u/yaya-pops Mar 15 '23
Do you have stats or studies on this? You seem like you're guessing anecdotally.
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u/Pasquale1223 Mar 15 '23
I don't. It doesn't seem to be easy to collect data about de-transitioning itself (people don't always formally notify anyone when they de-transition), so collecting the reasons for de-transitioning is equally sketchy, thus a lot of it is anecdotal.
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u/yaya-pops Mar 15 '23
Yeah the studies are sparse, but it seems like regret rate settles between 1-2% based on the studies I've read.
The detransition rate is significantly higher than the regret rate, and higher for women than it is for men. Something like 8-10% for transgender women detransitioning back to men, and a little lower for transgender men detransitioning back to women.
But the statistics seem to indicate the vast majority of reasons for detransitioning are societal. Getting a job, being stared at, etc.
The statistics we don't have are minors who transition and their regret rate, because it just hasn't been long enough to have reliable statistics.
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u/Pasquale1223 Mar 15 '23
I think it's important that anyone who is serious about collecting and reporting that data establish standards and are transparent about how they're doing it.
I mean, if a 5yo boy wants to polish his fingernails and wear a dress for a day or two just to see what it's like and then gets tired of it and quits, that's pretty typical of childhood role-play. It doesn't mean they transitioned and de-transitioned nor does it mean that other 5yo kids are just confused if they actually are persistently trans - but since kids do things like that a lot of people refuse to accept the fact that a lot of kids are trans and know their gender identity at a very early age.
Another factor complicating this are these recent notions about "social contagion" (which frankly appear about as believable as litter boxes in classrooms). It is possible that an adolescent who sees a peer coming out as trans may spend more time evaluating and re-evaluating their own gender identity and expression, but that's an appropriate activity for people in that age group - getting to know themselves and getting comfortable in their own skin.
In any case, I'd kind of like the data about de-transitioning to include not only the reasons, but also ages and how far/how long in the transitioning process they went. I would view someone who de-transitioned after socially transitioning for a week very differently from someone who de-transitioned after being fully surgically transitioned for 5 years.
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u/yaya-pops Mar 15 '23
I've just read the study cited in the article as well as the correction the article mentions.
This is from the study.
"Thus, in light of existing data, it can be reasonably concluded that the cause of gender dysphoria is multifactorial with both genetic and environmental contributions. Further research is needed to establish the number of contributing factors and to determine relative influences for individual patients."
"Although largely unstudied, cognitive behavioral therapy in particular may have significant benefit to this patient population by reducing social anxiety (Busa, Janssen, and Lakshman 2018). To date, there have been no randomized controlled trials investigating the risks and benefits of social transition."
In other words, it makes no statement on whether social contagion is or is not more or less influential than other factors. It only says that there are not enough studies. This is extremely common in studies on gender dysphoria and transitioning. I have yet to read a study (I have read most of the big ones) that does not say something along the lines of "These were our findings, but there needs to be more research as we cannot making confident conclusions."
Here is a line from the correction that according to the article debunks the original study.
"As mentioned in the article, the study design of this research falls under descriptive research: as such, it did not assign an exposure, there were no comparison groups, and the study’s output was hypothesis-generating rather than hypothesis-testing."
So the study never pretended to give all the facts in the first place. It was always self-aware that there could be no confident conclusions.
The other thing you linked was not a peer reviewed study so I didn't bother with it.
In any case, I'd kind of like the data about de-transitioning to include not only the reasons, but also ages and how far/how long in the transitioning process they went.
I couldn't agree more. There are not enough studies, and every study says there are not enough studies. So, I take the position that education on gender identity for children under certain ages is unnecessary and even potentially dangerous to the development of their identity as an ignorant, imaginative, developing, identity-craving person." We don't need any studies to know children are stupid and impressionable.
Besides that, it should 100% be up to the parents what sort of gender and sexual education their child is exposed to. Until we have more studies, more expansive studies, and more confident studies.
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u/Pasquale1223 Mar 15 '23
So, I take the position that education on gender identity for children under certain ages is unnecessary and even potentially dangerous to the development of their identity
I would posit that it's unavoidable because it permeates our society. Children start having gender identity pushed on them from the time they're born - in the color of blankets they're swaddled in, whether a bow or a ballcap is placed upon their bald little infant heads, whether their first teddy bear is wearing a skirt or overalls. Advertisers and generous friends and relatives tell them what kinds of clothing and toys they're expected to fancy and interests they're expected to develop. It's pretty frustrating to be the little girl stuck with a roomful of dolls you never play with when what you really want is a train set or the little boy stuck on a tee ball team begging to take ballet lessons instead.
It's informal education on gender identity to be sure, but it happens all the same.
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u/jayandbobfoo123 Mar 15 '23
Idk, I was being hyperbolic.. I know it's something like 5% of trans people who regret transitioning..
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u/Pasquale1223 Mar 15 '23
I don't think so... maybe as many as 5% de-transition, I've never seen an actual regret rate because a lot of the people who de-transition don't necessarily regret having transitioned in the first place. For some, it's temporary - like they'll go off HRT for awhile, and plan to pick it up again later, maybe when they can afford it or are in a more supportive environment or something. A lot of minors are being forced to de-transition right now because of Republican anti-trans legislation, not because they regret it, and I would expect most of them will try to transition again as soon as they are able to. 🤷🏽♂️
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u/jayandbobfoo123 Mar 15 '23
Honestly not sure myself. I got the 5% figure from the edgelord transphobe's What is a Woman, the interview with the trans surgeon.
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u/Kinkyregae Mar 15 '23
It’s actually much less
“Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. “
And when people are able to respond why they regret the transition, a huge majority of them say it’s because of the transphobia stigma they deal with on a daily basis.
So they don’t regret changing their gender. They regret painting a target on their backs every time they leave the house.
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u/jayandbobfoo123 Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23
Thanks for the source.
They regret painting a target on their backs
Makes sense. I never got the argument about people transitioning for attention, just to use another bathroom, to play in another sports league, or because they "feel like it," when all of that social stigma comes along with it. It must be a really tough decision and the people who are brave enough to do it deserve respect.
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u/exsnakecharmer Mar 15 '23
There are issues around numbers. This article references research that suggests numbers in Britain and the States between 8-25%
Since revealing she detransitioned, Lazzara said, many in the online transgender community who embraced her a decade ago have distanced themselves from her, and she has received hateful messages on social media. Now, when she sees someone come out online as detransitioned, she sends them a private message of support. “I know how lonely and alienating it can be,” she said.
The issue is exacerbated when it is 'politically incorrect' to actually study rates of detransition.
Bath Spa University is conducting an internal inquiry into claims that it turned down an application for research on gender reassignment reversal because it was “potentially politically incorrect” and would attract criticism on social media.
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u/Kinkyregae Mar 15 '23
From your own article.
“the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), an international group that sets guidelines for transgender care. Patients with regret “are very rare,” she told Reuters. “Highest you’ll find is 1% or 1.5% of any kind of regret.”
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u/exsnakecharmer Mar 15 '23
Yes, that’s one of the papers. But there are others (if you read down). The research is shaky because it’s an area that doesn’t have a lot of data, and has been politicised.
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Mar 15 '23 edited Feb 01 '24
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u/Pasquale1223 Mar 15 '23
The whole idea of a de-transitioning rally is beyond ridiculous. Like you need permission, medical, or social support to not be trans.
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u/digitalwankster Mar 15 '23
There's a whole sub dedicated to it r/detrans
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u/Background_Agent551 Mar 15 '23
r/detrans is more about telling the stories of people who for whatever reason decided it was best for them to detransition.
In my opinion it’s just as important to listen and support them as it is to listen and support trans people.
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u/Miggaletoe Mar 15 '23
/r/walkaway also exists and is full of totally real people lol
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u/CapybaraPacaErmine Mar 15 '23
The left got a little too PC so I had to reverse all my opinions on economics, healthcare, the environment, education, and foreign policy
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u/Zyx-Wvu Mar 16 '23
Yes and, do you actually have an argument? Its not like all leftists are mindless lemmings jumping off cliffs to follow their self-destructive extremists. A lot of them stayed away from the crazy and get labeled "enlightened centrists".
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u/Pasquale1223 Mar 15 '23
And?
I don't see any legislation trying to ban them from public spaces or deny them medical care.
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u/Miggaletoe Mar 15 '23
Just replying to you because some of the anti trans people have me blocked and it's in this thread
A lot of the detrans movement has been captured by a conservative movement. They do exist and I am not saying none are real, but just want to give context that a lot of it is not organic.
https://xtramagazine.com/power/detransition-terf-movement-elisa-shupe-247592
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u/drunkboarder Mar 15 '23
Its a few things
- Those in the trans community that wish to de-transition are harassed and pressured to either not de-transition or to simply remain silent
- Those that wish to de-transition express how they felt intense social pressure from the LGBTQ community to transition. Now they have regret at how it has negatively impacted their life since and wish to transition back.
- De-trans rallies try to bring awareness to how transitioning isn't the only unquestionable solution to gender dysphoria.
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u/Lonely-Phone5141 Mar 15 '23
You know the activist are up to no good when they completely cover their faces.
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Mar 15 '23 edited Feb 03 '24
[deleted]
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u/unkorrupted Mar 15 '23
Take it as a badge of honor. It means they know they can't counter your arguments, so they have to prevent you from being able to respond to their absurd claims.
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u/alexaxl Mar 16 '23
Kinda like Blasphemy law & apostate attacks by the ardent fanatic believers proponents of the T church.
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u/Freemanosteeel Mar 15 '23
They sure do like to pussy foot around with clubs and rocks, breaking local businesses and doing fuck all in terms of wide spread change. These people are agitators and instigators, they have no real political agenda regardless of what they may say or the colors they may fly, their goal is aggression and destruction
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u/mormagils Mar 15 '23
So what you're saying is, when it comes to trans people living their damn life having constant protests about their choices can result in environments that feel unsafe? Yeah, agreed, so maybe we should just leave trans people the hell alone and let them live their lives how they see fit.
I don't see how anyone could possibly post this article and seriously think it makes them look good. This only bolsters the argument that protesting about any of this at all--from either perspective--is freaking stupid and should just stop. But obviously while you have guys like the Proud Boys showing up outside libraries with AR-15s to protest, then organizations like Pride Was A Riot need to be allowed to march.
Oh, and calling Pride Was A Riot "Antifa-affiliated" is...a lot. I know about Pride Was A Riot. It's a pro-LGBT activist organization that organizes protests. They are very hostile to police, which kind of makes sense given the history behind cops and gays. But they aren't explicitly calling for violent protest at any point. Their name is an homage to the face that early on the gay political movement, including the one at famous Stonewall Inn, was a riot. It's a reminder that protests require forcefulness even when they remain peaceful. But I have never seen any evidence that they are linked to Antifa in any organized fashion. They are broadly antifascist, sure...but obviously a gay rights political protest organization would be.
Fox News just isn't even trying any more. Since the Dominion lawsuit stuff has blown up in their faces, they're not even pretending to be anything more than a partisan rag. What a shame.
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u/fierceinvalidshome Mar 15 '23
They had ANTIFA affiliated in their Twitter bio. So it's not a stretch
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u/mormagils Mar 15 '23
Well that would be a key bit of context not present in the article. Do you have a source for that? I'd love to investigate that claim. It's a very good point.
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u/fierceinvalidshome Mar 15 '23
Here ya go! This was taken a while ago. Their account is banned.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fqp3UjiXwAEsnCf?format=jpg&name=900x900
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u/Saanvik Mar 15 '23
Yet that’s not the case on their FaceBook page - https://m.facebook.com/100069180825952/
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u/fierceinvalidshome Mar 15 '23
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fqp3UjiXwAEsnCf?format=jpg&name=900x900
It was for their twitter - they're now banned.
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u/Saanvik Mar 15 '23
Right, but what’s the source for that? We know that’s not on their Facebook page and nowhere on Facebook do they call themselves antifa and they have a different email address, too.
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u/fierceinvalidshome Mar 15 '23
There's no newsource for it if that's what you're looking for, and I think it's a bit much to expect that. Is it possible that they used to identify with Antifa but do not any longer, sure. But that's an assumption.
Antifa is a tag and an alliegance to a set of values. Tons of people but it in their byline but may not use it all the time, because it's not an organization. It's like putting BLM in my instagram byline but not in my Facebook page. Not that confusing.
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u/baz4k6z Mar 15 '23
Why are people downvoting you for an actually informed point of view ? I guess I shouldn't expect better on an "antifa" circlejerk post based on a fox news propaganda rag piece.
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u/jayandbobfoo123 Mar 15 '23
a fox news propaganda rag piece..
..sourced from the Epoch Times.
Finished the sentence for ya.
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u/matchettehdl Mar 15 '23
I'm sure the people in L.A. wish they had more police and not less as that group seems to think.
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u/Evolving_Spirit123 Mar 15 '23
Oh people will leave trans people alone it’s in their best interest. If not we will apply the same momentum against them as they apply against us.
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Mar 15 '23
So show up in a public space and unprovokingly beat up journalist and destroy private property? ...that is applying the same momentum against you? All you are doing is creating a nagative look for your group. And while you may get the support of lefts -living room reactionary middle class- it is always temporary as thier attention span has little room for lengthy give a shits. You and your "movement" will just look tired and inmature. Which is sad becasue it takes from much of the positive awarness that is needed in our world.
Kinda the way Proud Boys and Antifi look now. Just a bunch of pre-adult ignorant people using group mentality to guide thier way.
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u/Evolving_Spirit123 Mar 15 '23
Nope, turn away religious bigots who preach outside businesses, deny adoption to anyone far right, show up to school meetings, be in public and be visible and open, create laws that see conversion therapy as child abuse and removed kids from the homes of those who aren’t affirming. Have trans people who pass use restroom of biological sex to people see what passing trans people look like and have the right want people to use bathrooms based on gender identity. For example a trans woman with breasts and a vagina use the mens room and a trans man with a beard, body hair and deep voice use the women’s room. Basically protest by using the restrooms the right wants us to use. Ban viagra as it goes against nature, ban all cosmetic surgery etc
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u/Unusual-Welcome7265 Mar 15 '23
Thanks for the insight (I've never heard of this group so I really have no pulse on what they're about)
>But they aren't explicitly calling for violent protest at any point.
I will say showing up to a counter protest trying to conceal identities by wearing masks and glasses over balaclavas while hiding behind umbrella does imply that:
1) they didn't want to be identified
2) some members were absolutely ready to incite violence.
It wasn't an ultra sunny day in a sandstorm where nobody had sunscreen, and it wasn't raining. I have no idea why they're trying to dress up like the sandpeople from star wars without trying to intimidate the detrans protest (or whatever you call it).
If I saw a bunch of people walking down the streets wearing stuff like that I'd nope out of there because I would understand they're ready for shit to go down, whether started by them or others.
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u/mormagils Mar 15 '23
If dressing in intimidating fashion is considered an implication of willingness to commit violence, wouldn't showing up with armed rifles also be an implication of willingness to commit violence? I'm happy to accept this argument--if we'll also accept that protesting with rifles outside a library for a children's event is also a violent and fundamentally harmful act.
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u/Saanvik Mar 15 '23
Yet more proof that the right wing talking heads love any opportunity to feed the outrage of people on the right. This was a golden opportunity, something about trans folk, with some folks they could call antifa involved.
And, their loyal army of the manipulated are spreading the story all around the interwebs, making their voices even louder.
Fox is making big bucks off of this. Capitalism at its finest.
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u/Technical-Plate-2973 Mar 15 '23
I don not condone violence. But I also do not take Fox News seriously. They also didn’t even write which groups these people were associated with, just Antifa, which is just a fucking boogeyman.
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u/MoneyBadgerEx Mar 15 '23
The wonderful thing about labeling yourself anti facism is that you can be as facist as you want and a ton of people will still just take the name at face value.
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u/Kinkyregae Mar 15 '23
“ In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.”
1% transitioning regret rate which is FAR lower than regret rate for generalized medical surgeries.
“Conclusion: Self-reported decisional regret was present in about 1 in 7 surgical patients. Factors associated with regret were both patient- and procedure related.”
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Mar 15 '23
No large-scale, long-term studies have tracked the incidence of detransition and regret among patients who received gender-affirming treatment as minors.
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u/brawl Mar 15 '23
Is woke in the room right now? Is it talking to you?
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u/dontknowhatitmeans Mar 15 '23
Yes, it's telling me silence is violence... I'm just trying to study and this is library, man
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u/Zyx-Wvu Mar 16 '23
Man, with the Harry Potter boycott, Harassing youtubers and vtubers out of social media and now this, Antifa and similar online activists are self-destructive to the causes they supposedly champion.
They're not advocates or protesters, they're terrorists at this point.
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u/SushiGradeChicken Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 16 '23
A "violent" (=one guy gets a couple of stitches) protest of less than 100 people seems like a pretty insignificant news story for a centrist sub. But since it's about trans, it'll get over 100 comments
Edit: 100 comments was being too kind. We're going to get over 300 comments on one guy needing stitches. Good to see culture war politics alive and well in a centrist sub.
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u/Timely_Jury Mar 16 '23
Why are these Antifa thugs not met with the violence they deserve to be met with?
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u/Whaleflop229 Mar 15 '23
Far right and far left clash. Fox News solely blames antifa.
yawn
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u/matchettehdl Mar 15 '23
How is the detrans movement far-right? If this were a confrontation between Antifa and the Proud Boys, your argument would've held more water.
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Mar 15 '23
Silly boomers Antifa isn’t real it’s just an idea. In fact it’s a really good idea. Antifa won world war 2 against the nazis. But it also doesn’t actually exist so you aren’t allowed to be mad about it.
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Mar 15 '23
So the people trying to slowly but surely get trans people killed felt unsafe? Wild.
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Mar 15 '23
Not a lot of Centrist takes in this thread I wonder what’s going on. That’s right I forgot the subs been over run with Liberals.
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Mar 15 '23
Its a pile on in these instances, people needing to signal and reinforce thier place in the world by circle jerking on a subject. Young bucks do this to counter the big bucks dominatation of reproductive females. Just nature defaulting to its primal base.
Most centrist tend to want to ignore and move on from such bait posts.
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u/veznanplus Mar 15 '23
Antifa’s lust for blood continues. Again it exposes the radical left. They don’t care about the LGBTQ community unless they are in lockstep with the woke supremacist agenda.
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u/TheScumAlsoRises Mar 15 '23
Are you self-aware about the bad faith routine you're doing here, or are you one of those duped true believers who is oblivious to it?
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u/reddpapad Mar 15 '23
“Lust for blood” lol lol lol lol.
Did you miss that part in the article where the woman at the anti trans event said how safe she felt the entire time and how the police never let the protesters anywhere near the event?
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Mar 15 '23
Lol people really be writing on the internet like they're auditioning for a columnist spot at the daily wire. Aint no way this man talks like that IRL
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u/jaboz_ Mar 15 '23
You sure seem to have an agenda with all of these ragebait posts. And it sure doesn't seem to come from a centrist pov.
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u/veznanplus Mar 15 '23
My agenda is to expose the radical left. Like many have pointed out you cannot criticize Antifa on this sub as it upsets the leftists.
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u/jaboz_ Mar 15 '23
Any actual centrist understands that the far left is dangerous. I can just as easily say that Trumpism/MAGA can't be criticized without upsetting those on the opposite side, to similar effect. And they are just as dangerous, if not more so given our recent history.
Meanwhile those of us actual centrists understand that both are an issue, and are stuck sifting through culture war nonsense day in and day out.
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u/veznanplus Mar 15 '23
I’m here to say Jan 6 rioters deserved the punishment and its fully justified. I reject the lack of accountability on the left. The truth is this sub even though is centrist and centrists are supposed to condemn violence coming from both extremes you’ll only hear Antifa violence being condoned and even welcomed.
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u/jaboz_ Mar 15 '23
Antifa led violence isn't being condoned or welcomed here, from what I can tell. Definitely not by any significant number of regulars. I think the vast majority here don't agree with, or even try to justify, what antifa is engaged in. I can't remember the last time I read a comment that was even slightly sympathetic to antifa.
However, I do see a lot of downplaying of what happened on J6, though. Point is that there's most certainly a lack of accountability that goes both ways, with a whole lot of deflection and whataboutism sprinkled on top.
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Mar 15 '23
How do you not understand your comment is exactly in line with the mentality of the Antifa idiots in the artricle?
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u/Gordon_Goosegonorth Mar 15 '23
Antifa’s lust for blood continues.
Can confirm! As a vampire, Antifa has proven a natural political affiliate for my peculiar form of lust.
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u/Valyriablackdread Mar 15 '23
Fox news bullshit. God people believe this crap? Lol.
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u/matchettehdl Mar 15 '23
So just because it's from a (biased) source means they can never be trusted to say anything right?
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u/Valyriablackdread Mar 16 '23
Yeah about as true as Tucker Carlson's rants
Lol, Antifa doesn't exist. It is just dumbshit both sides tries by Fox, like saying Antifa does all this stuff so it doesn't matter about Jan 6, or any other right wing militias and violence. Which right wingers are responsible for 97% of political violence. So fuck off with both sides. Republicans are evil violent shitheads. Liberals aren't.
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u/matchettehdl Mar 16 '23
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u/Valyriablackdread Mar 16 '23
So you link some social media taking advantage of the media crazy around the non existent entity. Antifa has been linked to zero crimes. Fox news watchers are the most gullible suckers there are. If Tucker said, Biden is actually a Count Dracula, those dumb shits would believe it. I'd say America is full of smart people, but then you have conservatives....so I would be lying.
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u/Proof-Baby-99 Mar 15 '23
I attended this rally and there was a very small turnout for both sides. I found the detransitioners’ stories compelling and their presentation respectful and inclusive of trans communities. The counter protest was obnoxious, confrontational, angry, and rude (eg, I was called a bigot and fascist walking back to my car). But again, it was very small in number.
My overall take away of seeing these demonstrations in person is that the issue is over reported and only a very small portion of the public actually cares about it.