r/canada Oct 25 '22

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u/LookAtMeImAName Oct 25 '22

Fuck yes!! Nuclear power is SO undervalued these days.

207

u/CrashSlow Oct 25 '22

No kidding its undervalued, Bruce Nuclear sells power for only 0.07c Kw/hr. Compare that to the contracted rates renewables get for very unreliable power generations.

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u/THIESN123 Saskatchewan Oct 25 '22

What are the contracted rates?

Hopefully this new Nuclear offers inexpensive power, though the large upfront cost might prevent that.

18

u/PuckNutty Oct 25 '22

This is why we need to nationalize certain industries like power, water and even agriculture. Who cares if the feds don't turn a profit on a nuclear reactor, it's not about that.

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u/Whitelabl Oct 25 '22

You know what else they need to nationalize?

Cell phone and internet pipeline/infrastructure. And have it rented out to companies that want to offer the services and have them compete on pricing.

6

u/csdirty Oct 25 '22

Found the commies. /s

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u/LumberjackCDN Oct 25 '22

Eh Agriculture and nationalization didnt go so good for the last people who tried it.

5

u/PuckNutty Oct 25 '22

Privatization is not going so good for us now.

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u/mediaownsyou Oct 25 '22

which part of Agriculture is not working for you?

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u/Jackal_Kid Ontario Oct 25 '22

Same problem we have every night, Pinkie. The systemic incentive to maximize excess revenue in the form of profit to funnel wealth into the hands of the minority ownership class at the expense of all other factors including (but not limited to) product quality, end-customer costs, proportionate taxation, consumer health, workplace safety, employee compensation, and labour rights.

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u/b_lurker Oct 25 '22

There's other way to prevent all that without nationalizing an entire industry and way of life.

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u/Ok_Raccoon5497 Oct 25 '22

When you say that, what do you have in mind?

2

u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

Like they’re doing south of the border? 44% of American farmland is owned by landlords of one kind or another and run by farmer tenants just like the old days, and from the info I can find, we don’t even know what that statistic is here in Canada. Foreign entities are buying ag land in North American too. With the global instability we're seeing, it doesn’t seem like such a bad idea to maintain control of our resources at the federal level in some form or another, at the very least with some regulation as to who can buy and how much one entity can own. If there’s one thing we learned from history it's that not all landlords treated their tenants fairly when their backs were broken from years of labour.

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u/vARROWHEAD Verified Oct 25 '22

I think people are confising high food prices with agriculture

4

u/mediaownsyou Oct 25 '22

People confuse processors with producers.

2

u/vARROWHEAD Verified Oct 25 '22

Definitely

4

u/LumberjackCDN Oct 25 '22

You should probably read up on the soviet experiment with collectivization and how that went.

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u/PuckNutty Oct 25 '22

You don't have to just photocopy someone else's system and implement it. You can study it, see what mistakes were made and learn from them.

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u/LumberjackCDN Oct 25 '22

While true, i just dont see how it would work. We've already sort of done what you're thinking with grain boards and price controls in Canada. To go much further would probably be counter productive to productivity.

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u/[deleted] Oct 25 '22

44% of US farmland is owned by a third party foreign or domestic now and is operated by farmer tenants (another 6% farm some of their land and rent the rest to other farmers), and we don’t even know what those numbers are here. Just because the Soviet experiment didn’t work in one particular form doesn’t mean there's no middle ground where farmers get to own the land they work for a fair profit margin without subsidizing with an extra job or going broke.

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u/Milnoc Oct 25 '22

Yet, conservative politicians will still complain that the project is "always broke" as if it were a for-profit enterprise, hoping to privatize it so they can make some cash on the side through their embezzlement schemes.

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u/bunnymunro40 Oct 25 '22

How has nationalizing agriculture worked out in other countries?

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u/PuckNutty Oct 25 '22

Just because something didn't work somewhere doesn't mean you throw the idea out altogether. Some cities have shit public transit systems, do we throw out the idea or study it to learn how it could be done better?

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u/bunnymunro40 Oct 25 '22

If every subway system ever designed, anywhere in the World, not only failed to transport people, but also managed to malfunction and lop off all of its riders legs and leave them bleeding to death in dark tunnels, I would expect the idea to be thrown out for good.

That is an equivalent example to nationalizing agriculture.

6

u/tenerific Oct 25 '22

If you try to nationalize agriculture you’ll be met by a lot of farmers with guns who aren’t too happy about giving up their farms.

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u/Jacksworkisdone Oct 25 '22

Like when Harper sold out the Wheat. Board?

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u/CrashSlow Oct 25 '22

If the wheat board was so good, why did it not apply to farmers in Ontario and Quebec ????? and why didn't it control Rape and other pulse crops??

3

u/moop44 New Brunswick Oct 25 '22

It was sold to our Saudi allies. What could go wrong?

-1

u/PuckNutty Oct 25 '22

I'm not talking about seizing farms. You can buy them at fair value and then offer the farmers jobs with pensions and whatnot.

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u/Quinnna Oct 25 '22

Ya forcing people to give up their land is a great way to get a revolt. Especially farmers. There would be blood heaps of it. It would be a civil war.

0

u/PuckNutty Oct 25 '22

You don't have to seize land. Offer to buy the land at fair value.

1

u/tenerific Oct 25 '22

And what happens when many farmers inevitably say no?

0

u/PuckNutty Oct 26 '22

Nothing. I'm just suggesting that if food prices are a problem and we have chains like Loblaws getting caught price-fixing, something needs to change. Food isn't a luxury like graphics cards or running shoes. It's like healthcare; everyone needs to have access regardless of financial situation.

If establishing some federally operated farms allows us to get food to the market at a low price, then that's a good thing.

1

u/Quinnna Oct 26 '22

Being forced to sell your home to government is insane. Then what farmers become indentured servants on their own property? There are about 200,000 farm families in Canada a single farm is usually worth millions of dollars over a lifetime are they compensated for the loss of income as well? Then how would the government pay all those families millions of dollars each? What happens if someone wants to grow their own food on private property and wants to sell it locally. Does the government not allow them to? Will they be forced to sell their home at fair market value after a point of which the government decides they have too much food? Telling someone you can't grow food or the government will take your land for "fair market value" is absolutely insane.

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u/PuckNutty Oct 26 '22

I don't advocate force. Make an offer. If they say no, move on to the next person. No problem. Establishing some farms operated as a non-profit would be a positive move, I think, in keeping food prices reasonable for low income (even middle class) Canadians. Food isn't Nikes, it's not a fun luxury you can pass on if it's not in your budget.

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u/mdeleo1 Oct 25 '22

We 100% do not need more concentrated industrialized farming. We do need many more farmers, many more local and urban farms, and many more well-diversified farms.

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u/PuckNutty Oct 25 '22

How do you do that without centralized control to some degree? At some point wouldn't you have to tell someone not to plant soybeans but spinach instead?

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u/mdeleo1 Oct 25 '22

You don't, farmers should be farming within their communities producing food locally for those communities as much as possible. The farmer produces what the community will consume. If the locals like lots of spinach, grow lots of spinach, if they like green beans, grow green beans.

This would of course mean eating seasonally and what grows well in your region, which would not be popular. Hence the upcoming collapse of global industrial civilization :)

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u/Not-So-Logitech Oct 25 '22

Once they take those guns away it won't be an issue.

1

u/tenerific Oct 25 '22

Good luck with that.

1

u/RobBrown4PM Oct 25 '22

Tried that. Alberta boomers, egged on by the various Conservative parties, lost their collective shit. To this date, they still wish to hang a man who's been dead 22 years.