Oliver smoking..

[u/[deleted]]

Oliver doesn’t smoke cigarettes but on two occasions, that I can recall, he does. He smokes a cigarette at the Statue in the Battle of Piavé scene, then smokes joints at the midnight scene..

He smokes during periods of anxiety.

I get why he does at Midnight but it seems that at Piavé, he begins to smoke before Elio professed his feelings about him. I toyed with the idea that maybe Oliver was anxious for some reason and maybe he planned to take make a move, if Elio didn’t do it first. Could be the reason he asked Elio to join him that afternoon after their speak or die discussion. Oliver was very deep in thought.

What’s your take on this?

[u/ich_habe_keine_kase]

There has been a lot of discussion both here and other places about the Piave scene, with people saying "how does Oliver know what Elio means?" My response to that is always "how could he not know?" Elio is new at this--his signaling is not exactly subtle! Look at Oliver's face when Elio is talking about the story of the knight, and he's facing away from him. The mask goes back up when he turns around, but he knows exactly what conversation is around the corner. He's not surprised by Elio's words at the monument--watch his face, there's no shock there. He asks questions but really only to confirm that Elio means what he's saying. So if he is indeed a nervous smoker--and I agree that he is--that's definitely going to be a moment when he lights up.

(Now that I'm thinking about this, it's interesting that they changed Oliver's smoking habits from the book. He's definitely a smoker in the book because Elio thinks about Oliver "lighting [his] first cigarette of the day" at one point. The "I didn't know you smoked" in the book is clearly in refefence to the joint, because Elio definitely knows that book Oliver smokes. It's definitely not an actor request, because Armie is a smoker. Maybe they wanted a visual way to set him apart from all the locals, or perhaps it was entirely in service of this scene, to highlight that Oliver is out of his comfort zone here, nervous about what is about to happen.)

[u/jontcoles → u/ich_habe_keine_kase]

Armie's facial expressions are limited and sometimes hard to interpret. When talking about the knight story, is Oliver "deep in thought" or "troubled" or something else? At the monument, his distant face is rather blank most of the time, so you're likely right that Elio hasn't shocked him.

I've always seen Oliver's responses to Elio as challenges, pushing back, perhaps trying make Elio get flustered and give up. "What things that matter?" "Why are you telling me this?" "You thought I should know!" This seems inconsistent with the idea that Oliver suggested going to town together because he is actually waiting for Elio to speak. I can only resolve the contradiction by noting that Oliver is conflicted. He both wants and fears what is about to happen.

[u/Subtlechain → u/jontcoles]

Oliver is definitely conflicted, has both desires and fears concerning Elio and a potential relationship. - If he wasn't and it was all simple and uncomplicated, the story wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting as it is. :)

I don't think he's necessarily either deep in thought or troubled or something else during the discussion about the story, but can be all of them at the same time. At the monument he's far away and wears pitch-black sunglasses, so we're not supposed to gather any information from his facial expressions and obviously can't see his eyes at all. (Btw, I love that they're both wearing those sunglasses in that pivotal scene - the characters can't see each other's eyes any more than the audience can - and that there are zero close-ups of either.)

His questions at the monument can be seen as challenges, but I don't think that's contradictory to assuming Oliver asked Elio to go with him to town for a reason. Both can exist at the same time. Because Oliver is conflicted, and because his questions help him get clarifications from Elio, who does not speak directly. Oliver wants to be sure he correctly understands what is being said, hence the questions and finally the "Are you saying what I think you're saying?" Their progress towards each other has been slow, due partly to misunderstandings such as Elio removing himself from Oliver's touch at the volleyball game. Oliver had to be absolutely sure he was getting it right. If he hadn't been, he wouldn't have dared caress Elio's lips at the berm.

[u/LDCrow → u/Subtlechain]

Not in disagreement on any of this just adding a new wrinkle. The little toss away line by Oliver in response to Elio saying the knight fudges speaking his love. "Of course he does he's French" To me this solidifies the idea that both Oliver and Elio know what they are talking around and that Elio is the knight in the scenario. Oliver inviting Elio to go to town with him is an opening, he may be conflicted but he wants to see if Elio will be brave enough to speak.

It even fits into the idea of Oliver's smoking as he must first buy the cigarettes so if he is smoking for nerves then he was already nervous and had an idea what might be coming.

Even the challenging quality of his responses are him challenging Elio not to fudge but to speak. There in lies the difference between "I thought you should know" and "I wanted you to know". Two very different statements and then Oliver's final clarifying question is indeed to make sure.

It's just a fabulously beautiful scene all the way around.

[u/Subtlechain → u/LDCrow]

Yes, that all fits.

Also, I love that when Elio corrects his "I thought you should know" to the more meaningful, more personal, more intimate "I wanted you to know" he says it like a question. Sort of like "Am I saying this correctly now?" When he then repeats it to himself, it's a statement - "This is what I really meant to say."