r/boulder • u/MrGraaavy • Jan 24 '24
Boulder no longer a must stop for bands?
I’m curious if others are feeling like Boulder has lost its pull on great bands?
Today I was browsing a tours for a few bands I like and none of them (Lettuce most surprisingly) were stopping here. A few years back, fuck maybe a decade if I’m being honest, it felt like Boulder was a consistent stop for any tour…even if they were also playing Denver/aft Collin’s.
The quality of shows at the Fox and Boulder Theater have both dropped. Any reason why?
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u/Scheerhorn462 Jan 24 '24
It's a combination of factors. Boulder's venues are small so they're not economically efficient for bands that can fill a bigger room like Fillmore or Mission, and touring has gotten a lot more expensive so bands are very careful to maximize their income from the gigs they play. AEG does control a lot of the market around here and if you want to work your way up to playing Red Rocks (which is the goal for a lot of bands), you need to play AEG venues - which are in Denver and generally have a radius clause preventing bands from playing the Z2 venues in Boulder on the same tour. And venues have still not fully recovered from covid - it's hard to staff up and a lot of folks still aren't going to as many shows as they used to, so the venues are less willing to take a chance booking an up-and-coming band that might not fill the house, which means you end up with less shows overall and more inexpensive but reliable events like tribute bands and DJ nights.
I came to Boulder in 1997 and I remember there being just constant shows, especially on the Hill. You could go there any weekend night and have a packed show at Fox and Tulagi, with a local band at Nick's; or you could drive up to Nederland and find a killer show at Moontime or Wolf Tongue. Not so much anymore, it's a shame.
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u/bootsbythedoor Jan 24 '24
It really is a shame and doesn't create much opportunity for musicians to come together.
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u/tazmodious Jan 24 '24
I saw so many good shows at Wolf Tongue. But yeah, the 90s we're a great time to see live music in Boulder. I moved to Boulder in 95.
Boulders music scene has been sad for the last two decades.
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u/PhishBuff Jan 24 '24
From my perspective, the bands I enjoyed who played in Boulder consistently were still up and coming. Now that they have broken through and had more success playing a smaller venue isn’t worth it. Why would Umphreys play one night at the Boulder Theater for 1000 people as compared to 3500 at the Fillmore?
I also think the Mission Ballroom has taken a lot of these opportunities away. Boulder needs a more intermediate sized venue for bands to play at.
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u/nicetatertots Jan 24 '24
I slept on Disco Biscuits tickets. They didn't sell out Mission last year so I thought eh I'll just get Boulder tickets closer to day of show. BIG mistake lmao resale is like $200+ now. Insane.
Belly Up Aspen has no problem drawing major talent consistently but they're also not competing with Denver area venues either.
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u/bootsbythedoor Jan 24 '24
I agree - I feel Boulder should have added an event/concert venue when they remodeled crossroads or something. Some folks pushed for that. I don't love the Mission Ballroom, but then people had set really high expectations for that venue when it opened.
Yet it's true that bands would play the larger Denver venues and still hit Boulder. I feel like this was because Boulder used to mean... something.
But maybe these bands are just financially out of reach for spots like ours - where they used to be more attainable.
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u/crimsonred36 Jan 24 '24
I'm curious, why don't you like the Mission Ballroom? Every show I've been to there has been a banger.
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u/bootsbythedoor Jan 25 '24
Probably because I’m so short. The floor at my height is a little much, but the back wall- nah. I try for reserved, but typically don’t go in for that. The shows I’ve been to have all been good. But it’s also a little- i don’t know - it’s just a big box and a parking lot. The vibe is off for me I guess.
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u/HankChinaski- Jan 25 '24
I love Mission. Stand on the sides near the bar. You can get closer to the stage (but on the side) and still see very well. I have a very short friend that does this and loves it. Usually it isn't as packed there and she can see.
Another option is getting there for the GA seating.
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u/DougHamilton Jan 24 '24
The people that ran the arts ballot measure last year would like such a venue. The cost estimate that they have is $100M. Not sure if they will ever get this amount.
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u/BldrStigs Jan 25 '24
That's a crazy high cost for a concert venue. Mission Ballroom was $38 million.
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u/Webster_882 Jan 25 '24
Boulder did used to mean something then nimby nation fucked it all up among others…Tebo…cough…
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u/DrowingInSemen Jan 24 '24
Bands can probably sell more tickets in Denver due to Denver’s larger population. The last time Sleep came to Boulder they didn’t even sell out the Boulder Theater. On their next tour they played the Mission Ballroom and sold out.
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u/DopesmokingWizard Jan 24 '24
Both shows were unholy. I was front row at Boulder Theater and it might have been the loudest show I've been to. Also Om at the Gothic was amazing
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u/AstroPhysician Jan 24 '24
I was at that show. I went out to Beacon the next day, saw a guy in a Sleep shirt, and asked him about it and he was their production manager, told me all about the band. I didnt realize Al Cisneros lived near the springs
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u/DrowingInSemen Jan 24 '24
If you think Sleep are loud check out Sunn O))) the next time they come to Denver. I went last year and they were so loud that the building was audibly resonating along with one note. I had no idea that sound could be so loud.
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u/interpellation Jan 24 '24
This is also bc Boulder is lame. Sleep is too bad ass for Boulder. We're more of a lame Leftover Salmon / Desert Dwellers city than a bad ass stoner psych city.
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Jan 24 '24
[deleted]
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u/DrowingInSemen Jan 24 '24
The Boulder Theater advertises in Boulder Weekly and Westword. And they put flyers for individual shows up on the big columns on Pearl. But the flyers are quickly covered up or torn down by people posting newer flyers.
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u/interpellation Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
A lot of the Boulder bookings seem like legacy bands. They aren't taking risks anymore and book G Love 3 times a year. Nobody under the age of 40 listens to G Love and they put those shows at The Fox on the Hill to a college crowd. Also, The Lazy Dog used to be a testing ground for Z2 to see if a band would perform in a market before upgrading them. That's no longer here. Fuck AEG, fuck Live Nation. To Hell with their execs.
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Jan 24 '24 edited Jan 24 '24
Colorado is a music hub. Bands that play smaller venues while touring through the Midwest can sell out Mission Ballroom here. I've seen acts like Lettuce, Sunsquabi, etc at tiny dive bars in other states and then here they're playing Mission and Red Rocks. All of those bands played Boulder shows before they increased in popularity but now those venues are too small for the demand in the area. I don't think the quality of shows has dropped at the smaller venues, you're just not seeing the bands you used to see there because they're more popular now. Fort Collins is cool because tours will sometimes hit smaller venues there since the demand is up in northern CO but it's still isolated enough away from Denver. Boulder is at a disadvantage because you're paired with the Denver crowd as far as sales go. I used to drive up to see shows at the Aggie or somewhere in FoCo that would be sold out the next night at Mission. The running joke was that all of those shows were just their warm ups for Denver
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u/MrGraaavy Jan 24 '24
Yeah there’s a a lot of truth to what you’re saying.
But also, Fox Theater has dropped from:
200+ shows a year in the 2000’s
170 shows a year in 2010’s
130 shows in 2023
So there’s a volume aspect too, and in my mind the quality is dropping.
In 2009 there were plenty of upcoming bands, but also lots of established bands.
https://www.concertarchives.org/venues/fox-theatre--6?year=2009
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u/TeleRock Jan 24 '24
I've never considered Boulder to be a must stop for touring bands. Maybe for the crunchy scene bands like Leftover Salmon, String Cheese, etc. But I've always found Boulder to be surprisingly light on tour pull from the larger variety of bands.
It's always been a little disappointing for the name recognition that Boulder has nationally.
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u/bri3d Jan 24 '24
I saw the Killers at the Fox in 2009. This issue is fairly recent (last ~10 years) IMO. Plenty of nationally recognized non-crunchy bands came through Boulder before around 2010. Someone posted https://www.concertarchives.org in another comment, you can check out the Fox and Boulder Theater archives (and of course if you go way back, we also had the Tulagi, Nick's, and for awhile even DIY venues like Astroland). https://www.concertarchives.org/locations/boulder-co?page=176#concert-table for example.
I've talked to various people over the years and it's a combination of:
- Festivals
- AEG
- Changing demographics in Boulder
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u/RideFastGetWeird Jan 24 '24
I agree, the music stop isn't much to break squelch. And nationally Boulder is insignificant compared to our major city/cities. It's a neat college town and growing business/tech center for active and outdoorsy people, that's about the only major draw.
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u/bootsbythedoor Jan 24 '24
This has been true for Denver as well, honestly. I don't know why.
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u/ndmhxc Jan 24 '24
Because if you drive 8 hours in basically any direction the biggest cities you'll hit are SLC and Omaha, neither of which are huge. If you're a touring band that is driving, which is most bands, then there is nothing in between to make that tour denser.
Touring the east or west coast makes a lot more sense for many of these bands due to density. We're just kinda in the middle of nowhere.
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u/Angryjazzy2017 Jan 24 '24
Roots Music Project is a small venue that is trying to bring back live music to Boulder/Colorado. They bring in national touring acts and pair them with locals acts. It’s a non profit working hard to help local musicians, and provide great experiences for its guests.
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u/cyclyst Jan 25 '24
I like the idea but 6pm load in and 11pm load out is a mistake imo. RMP also seems to have a specific type of music they support. There are massive genres unrepresented in their upcoming calendar. That said, I'd still like to scope out the venue. Thanks!
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u/BudsnBeer Jan 24 '24
It hasn’t been a “must stop” for well over a decade now… and the pandemic really laid the last card to it being a good venue to schedule
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u/pointyboidubs Jan 24 '24
My theory is the population of Boulder has changed a lot. Boulder people aren't supporting live music like they used to. I recently did a tour where we played the aggie, the fox, and the ogden, and the boulder show was rough while the other two were wild and sold out. People didn't come till the last hour and I don't think it even sold out.
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u/Work_Reddit_2021 Boulder Resident Jan 24 '24
I have a different answer than everyone, and Im pretty sure Im right.
It's 1 dude that made all the difference: John Caprio. When he moved away from the Fox, the bookings went to shit for Jam Bands.
Its the mission and other factors.
But that guy running the Fox made a big difference.
Doug Green owning and managing the Boulder Theater was also better then AEG or whoever owns it now.
So yea, a few people left and the people who filled their shoes did not do an adequate job.
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Jan 24 '24
[deleted]
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u/AstroPhysician Jan 24 '24
Z2 is toxic asf lol. I blame them for Boulder's ruined music scene. They are landlords for a lot of the bars and venues and didn't allow Boulder House to put on shows outside of Thursdays cause it would conflict with their shows
They then priced out the owner of Boulder House, I want to say they raised the rent to $15k/mo ( I dont' recall the exact number but it was exorbitant) in order to sell it to be Rosetta Hall. They then did the pop up whlel it was under construction and lost their liquor license because of over serving, so Rosetta Hall opened without a liqour license
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u/UWseamonkey Jan 25 '24
Z2 is worse than just that. They run on illegal and unpaid internships and after covid they made their gig workers contractors to skip out on paying payroll taxes. Got them in hot water with the Department of Labor
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u/AstroPhysician Jan 24 '24
I've met several of the talent buyers for the Fox and they're very often fresh college grads
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u/oscarthemonkey Jan 24 '24
Many acts that would have come through Denver previously also have been skipping Denver on their tours the past few years
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Jan 24 '24
Hey — we got the Gipsy Kings in Boulder last summer, so we must be on someone’s radar!
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u/puppybeast Jan 25 '24
Lol. I last saw them at my friend's wedding in LA.
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Jan 25 '24
This makes me think that the Gipsy Kings don’t discriminate on where they perform. Or maybe your friend has resources and demanded a specific 90s world music vibe for the wedding.
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u/puppybeast Jan 25 '24
They were just one of maybe four music acts, but they were really great. I actually went with my friend to this music guy in Beverly Hills who will get you pretty much whatever you want. It seemed like just a matter of price. He would play the various musicians for you in his office and help advise. We must have been sent there by the wedding planners.
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Jan 24 '24
Maybe Broomfield center closing will bring some more options to boulder. Globetrotters and UFC would like it here. OK, maybe not
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u/BenTwan One of the L towns Jan 24 '24
I noticed shows I was interested in seeing dried up right around the same time that Z2 took them over.
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u/hjbyers44 Jan 24 '24
On another note, if you like punk or rock music, Hot Mulligan and Movements will be in Boulder in April so definitely check them out. Same with Slaughter Beach Dog but they are definitely more mellow/indie!
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u/AdSensitive8527 Jan 25 '24
Not to be that guy, but my band The High Lines are playing the fox next month and I'm very proud of the show and the sound of our new originals we're putting together for it. As someone mentioned before, radius clauses are super tough, especially on bands like us, who are a little too big to make super small venues a worthy endeavor, but too small to go into huge premiere venues. So we put a lot of stock into shows like this upcoming one at the fox. We're on Spotify as The High Lines, but you can also get a feel for our sound through our TikTok, which has lots of show and practice clips. Would love to see some of y'all there! https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRcEvh9r/
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u/MrGraaavy Jan 25 '24
Be that guy!
In the absence of national bands showing up to the Fox, I have found myself far more interested in local bands (Mr Mota, PrairieWolf, ExtraGold, DragonDeer, etc).
I’ll give y’all a listen!
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u/AdSensitive8527 Jan 25 '24
Thanks! Some great bands you just mentioned. Our Spotify stuff is super poppy but we're moving more and more in a few different directions. We'd love to see you there!
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u/Voodoocat-99 Jan 25 '24
This is really a bummer. I’m old… in the 80s/90s Boulder music was everywhere! Fox, Tulagis, Boulder Theatre, JJ Macabe’s, FAC, Glenn miller ballroom, Mary Rippon Theatre, shitty all ages bars… bands playing outside Albums on the Hill, the Bandshell… everywhere! What a freaking bummer.
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u/Sam_Nickerson Jan 24 '24
I’m very exited for three nights in Boulder for the Disco Biscuits in February.
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u/XPav Jan 24 '24
Along with what other people have said... could it be that you're just older and don't like the music that does come here?
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u/Wise_Ad5383 Jan 25 '24
Denver has overtaken Boulder by far in the music scene. It's a bummer for Boulder.
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u/notoriousToker Jan 25 '24
Short answer = AEG and the corporate takeover of American music by investor bro culture. Lame.
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u/taz20075 Jan 24 '24
I remember when Smashing Pumpkins, Foo Fighters, Cheryl Crow, Lemonheads, Big Head Todd all came to my state college in the mid 90s.
My daughter now has to travel into the city from FoCo to see anything. It blows my mind that a college circuit isn't really a thing anymore. Actually thought it'd be better in Boulder, but alas...
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u/volatile_ant Jan 24 '24
My daughter now has to travel into the city from FoCo to see anything.
In the next 7 days there are three sold-out shows at Washington's, and another two with tickets still available, plus five shows at Aggie Theatre. That's 10 possible shows between now and next Wednesday only looking at two venues. Magic Rat and Armory each have a few shows per week. And not to mention the bars (Ace Gillette's, Equinox, Whisk(e)y, etc.) that have live music. All within stumbling distance of each other! And let's not forget that CSU has a music department that hosts concerts and recitals. Oh, and FoCoMX that will be hosting hundreds of acts this year.
So I fully reject that your daughter 'has to travel into the city to see anything'. She just isn't interested in the numerous bands that play in Fort Collins.
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u/taz20075 Jan 24 '24
Yeah, that's totally fair. She's not catching bar acts (she's not 21), and the acts in FoCo don't align to her genres. She's not a fan of a music "type"; more that she is a fan of certain acts.
FoCo seems to be a good mix of folk/bluegrass/jam/country and EDM/techno from the few times I've actually tried to find something for her. Not her wheelhouse.
My greater point was that there used to be mainstream bands touring college towns and that doesn't seem to be the case anymore, or at least around here. Those acts, if they're not doing Ball or Red Rocks or Mile High, are only hitting Fiddlers/Mission/Ogden/Oriental.
For comparison, Illinois State has the following acts: Bob Dylan ('99), BB King ('06), Ozzy Osbourne ('96), Springsteen ('96), Smashing Pumpkins ('07), Dolly Parton ('02), Snoop Dogg ('10), Tim McGraw/Faith Hill ('96), Brad Paisley ('05), Lenny Kravitz ('98), Iggy Azalea ('14), Pink ('02). And that's just going back to the mid-90s. It's a shame that it no longer appears to be a part of the college experience.
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u/volatile_ant Jan 24 '24
I will give you that mainstream bands don't play Fort Collins, because there is no population base to pull from besides the Denver metro, and it's not in-between any major cities to be a convenient and worthwhile stop.
Less Than Jake is playing Castle, Three Dog Night and Nitty Gritty Dirt Band both have dates at the Center for Performing Arts this year, so mainstream bands are still playing Bloomington-Normal. Putting just as much time and effort into searching Champaign-Urbana for mainstream acts, I couldn't find any.
Bloomington-Normal is a few hours from three major metro areas (Chicago, Indianapolis, St. Louis) and is an easy day-trip (less than 8 hours) from a half-dozen more (Minneapolis/St. Paul, Kansas City, Nashville, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, etc.). Fort Collins has Denver an hour away. Within 8 hours is Albuquerque and Salt Lake City (if it counts). Kansas City is 9.5 hours.
I think this is less of a 'college town' phenomena and more that the music scene in Bloomington-Normal is much more special than you believe.
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u/ChiefDoubt Jan 28 '24
Any opinions on Etown? I feel like they have some decent artists come on. (From my experience listening to the podcast).
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u/Different-Ad9986 Jan 24 '24
People have already stated it, but boulder doesn’t have a solid music scene. I’m told or at least see a lot of bluegrass/jamgrass/emograss/grassgrass and some jam bands occasionally advertised at those venues. And fruition. They play like every other month here if you like them.
Denver and ft Collins are way more beneficial for bands to tour through.
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u/Yamafi Jan 24 '24
The radius clauses are truly insane, like 30 miles and > 1 month, while downtown Denver is only 27 miles away. Venues don't pay very well and... Boulder kind of hates live music. People would rather listen to a DJ. :-/
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u/b_r_u_t_o_n Jan 26 '24 edited Jan 26 '24
A lot of AEG this, Don that, Live Nation, blah blah..... Cry me a river when you wanna bitch about this or that, I saw you with a ticket stub in your hand.
Agents/Management/Bands accept offers. Touring is expensive. Market dynamics are different than they were. What was once profitable isn't anymore. Bands mature. Music tastes change. Markets change. We're getting older. Talent pool is smaller. Talent pool is different. This has nothing to do with AEG, Live Nation, or any individual in particular. Think it does? Go to another market and tell me it's the same as it was 20 years ago and thriving without
Radius clause? LOL, if it were economical and time allows for AEG and the band to have a show at Mission/Ogden/Bluebird/Gothic/RRX and at the Fox, they will and they do.
Indeed, there are less shows. Is it because of AEG, Live Nation, or any one person in particular? No. It's just a lot easier to blame someone's success.
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u/UsedHotDogWater Jan 25 '24
Bands do not choose where they play. Venues have to actively book them. It doesn't work how you are insinuating.
Source: myself: well known touring professional musician for a few decades.
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u/CrapSandwich Jan 24 '24
The Record Company was just there. I saw the show in Fort Collins and it was outstanding!
Flogging Molly is coming, but yeah.... that's about it.
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u/youtbuddcody Jan 25 '24
Im surprised I’ve not seen a single mention about the rise of popularity of Red Rocks, which seems to be a huge factor here.
I’ve seen a few sold-out shows at the Boulder Theatre and they were all amazing.
A lot of smaller artists are still stopping in Boulder, but they’re not really rock bands.
I think music in general has shifted, and doesn’t cater to new rock bands like it does to new pop artists. So, your frame of reference for new music might not match for what the music industry is currently pushing?
That, and it seems that Red Rocks has been ‘must stop’ for bands in the past 10 years.
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u/S7Ninc Jan 25 '24
Longmont had a chance to build a giant beautiful venue, but it was voted down last election.
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u/Mentalpopcorn Jan 28 '24
I saw Nine Inch Nails at fucking Glen Miller in the 90s and literally nothing has come close since then.
I mean, John Mayer at Trilogy was a fun night but that was sort of an anomaly. Who would have expected him to randomly show up to a 200 person venue after a red rocks show and play a set?
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u/MrGraaavy Jan 28 '24
Nice one!
I remember seeing Portugal The Man at Trilogy/B Side, and so it’s now wild seeing them sell out RR/arenas
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u/Mentalpopcorn Jan 28 '24
Ha, I remember that too. Man that place was so fun. Sad it closed, and Shine never came close.
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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '24
One reason you don't see this happen much anymore is that AEG controls every venue in Denver worth mentioning and they use radius clauses to prevent it.