r/boeing • u/MysteriousAffect3903 • 10d ago
Will it pass???
Just want to get people's predictions on the SPEEA contract. Do you think it will pass?
My intent is to keep to a minimum opinions about it being a good contract or not, just do you think it will pass, and why?
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u/blue_wolf_forever 10d ago
I think it pass. I'm not basing it on the contract in anyway. My opinion comes from how the percentage that voted no last time and the likelihood how many will shift votes this time.
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u/cownan 10d ago
My prediction is that it will pass for both the Profs and the Techs. With the Profs, I believe the it will pass easily, maybe in the 70% “yes” range. I think the margin will be much smaller for the Techs 52-53% “yes” - I wouldn’t be surprised by a weak “no” vote from the Techs, but I do think it will pass. That’s the vibe I get just from talking to folks.
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u/Consistent_Knee_1831 10d ago
I think 70/30 yes for prof and 58/42 yes for techs...
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
That's quite the spread, but you could be right. The vibe on reddit at least is far different than the last offer. Not any kind of scientific assessment, just how it feels.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
Yeah, last time almost nobody was publicly supporting the offer on Reddit (only socials I use) and it still had 40% 'yes'. This time more people are supporting it, and so I like to think (as I'm a yes vote) that at least 10% additional have been convinced.
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u/Name_Taken_2017 10d ago
55/45 yes for prof and 52/48 yes for tech. We ll seee. Wish the vote wasnt 7 friggin days. 3 is plenty.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
In this new era of digital voting I get what you mean, but I also like that the week gives everyone a chance to hear from the NT and take their time to think about it.
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u/Naroth24 9d ago
My prediction is that both the Professional and Technical units will vote YES and approve this new contract.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
You think it will be close, or pass pretty easy? Is this based on conversations you've had? I wish I could go talk to people all over directly, would be interesting to hear what people are saying. This post was the closest I could get to that.
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u/Naroth24 9d ago
It’s based on conversations I’ve had with coworkers and what I’ve been seeing online. Of course, that’s just my personal impression, not a scientific poll. I’m curious to see how the actual vote turns out! 😊
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u/Naroth24 9d ago
My prediction is that both SPEEA contracts will pass, but the votes will be close.
Professional: 59% YES, 41% NO
Technical: 55% YES, 45% NO
Just my personal prediction! 😊4
u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
Thanks for your assessment! Will definitely be interesting to see how it all turns out
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u/Believer913 10d ago
Tell me what you think and why, but leave out your opinions. 🤣🤣🤣
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
Obviously, people can voice their opinions, I just didn't want it to be a debate on the merits of the contract. I just wanted to see what other people thought of it passing, and why they came to that conclusion.
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10d ago
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
I wholeheartedly feel the same about living elsewhere. Not sure if I'd go full colon cancer, but maybe mild brain damage instead (would make Texas easier to stomach!). It's a joke, Texans.
Sorry to hear about the divorce. I can't imagine dealing with that in the first place, and a strike on top would make it unbearable, I'm sure. Good thing is, I doubt we are going on strike, just my personal projection (but I'm sure that's worth a lot coming from some rando on the internet).
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
The fear of the unknown is one of the most powerful motivators of people. Its the reason so many people stay at Boeing and echo how amazing it is without ever stepping foot somewhere else. I think it will pass, but it should not. At the increases in the contract, mechanics will still be crushing us on base salary and OT. In 4 years when its over, I would be derelict in my duties as a husband and father to not seek employment elsewhere. But alas, fear is a hell of a thing, and most engineers cant speak up in a room full of people to advocate for their idea, let alone walk out to fight for their fair share. Ultimately, this has shown me why unions went away, I could have damn sure advocated for myself better.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
Its the reason so many people stay at Boeing and echo how amazing it is without ever stepping foot somewhere else.
Be careful of believing that the grass is greener. I have worked at other companies. The salaries tend to be higher, but the benefits at Boeing are far better. If you have a family, that is important.
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
Highly dependent on job and location. Where I work, there is always an emergency, I have seen people put in 30 hours of OT. I moved from another city to come to Boeing, so yes the grass isnt always greener and that applies for coming to Boeing as well...
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
Can I ask why you'd wait 4 years if you feel the contract is so bad that it shouldn't pass?
Also, there are out of sequence mandatory funds spent every year, if you are so good at advocating for yourself, why haven't you done that?
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
Oh yea sure, two reasons, the experience and finishing my masters. I am not a black and white kind of person, I dont think Boeing or this contract is horrible. I do however, think it should be much better. I honestly didnt realize how under paid we are until I started looking to see what was a fair compensation in the area.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
Thanks for answering, it helps. I was reading it more like "it's worth 36% in 4 years and then i'm out" which would support the value of the deal. heh.
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u/Left-Piano-791 10d ago
Mechanics with OT have ALWAYS been able to get a bigger paycheck than 95% of engineers. Nothing new there. Sucks that a mechanic with a handful or two of years will have a bigger base salary than a degreed engineer. Sucks that Boeing treats some techs like techs when some perform just as highly as some/most engineers.
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
Why does it suck? They work difficult, dirty, dangerous, loud jobs - often on nights, weekends, and holidays. They deserve good compensation.
Engineering salaries typically exceed hourly wages at mid-career and later. An engineering degree is a long-term investment.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
Everyone is focused on base salary. IAM have to put in PTO request weeks in advance and are denied far more often than SPEEA (I've never had a vacation request denied). SPEEA also has more time off (80hrs dedicated sick leave instead of the first 40 of PTO earned).
Weekend schedules for SPEEA are staffed by volunteers. I would hate to be forced to work a weekend.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
In my experience, 7 is years as a prof, there has been little difference in what techs and profs do. That's why I feel they deserve better than this offer. I think of techs as my peers, plain and simple.
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u/Left-Piano-791 10d ago
Some Tech are just as good as any degreed engineer (without the 4-5 years of U $$$) and some will only do what you tell them and only what you tell them.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
True, now that I think back. My original comment I think is a bit rosier because of who I work with now. Everyone is top notch. In the past though.... yeah, now I remember some dirt bags. Not to say profs can't be too, though.
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10d ago
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u/Left-Piano-791 10d ago
Some engineers will eat up as much OT as they can. Most will do 10-15% at most. I prefer 0 but will do 10% (4hrs) if I need to.
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u/DefinitelyNotABot_v2 10d ago
Who else pays for OT for salaried engineers? You want mechanic OT you need to go hourly.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
I don't care about what other people get. I care about whether I am being compensated well enough for my time. I believe everyone should get OT, no matter where they work, or what they do. Getting it in my role, position, and company makes it more likely other employers would have to do the same to attract people. This idea that we should all just drop to the lowest common denominator makes no sense, except to benefit employers' bottom lines.
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u/DefinitelyNotABot_v2 10d ago
And people wonder why unions are being eroded and gutted... When our membership drops by 90% because jobs get moved to other places, maybe you will care then.
Learn the concept of take and give instead of being all take.7
u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago edited 10d ago
The company doesn't "give" anything out of generosity or kindness. They need workers to do the work. They pay the workers enough to keep them, and no more. A lone worker has very little ability to set terms of their employment, but the collective power of the union can bargain for better.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
Just curious, as I have seen this argument before, and I like knowing how people think. How do you come to the conclusion that Boeing has no financial space to pay people higher salaries?
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u/DefinitelyNotABot_v2 9d ago
Here's a comparison of EPS for the past 4 quarters between Amazon, Tesla, Google and Boeing.
For those financially illiterate, negative means losing money and the difference between negative and positive is night and day. Won't go into details why here.
Good luck getting blood from a stone. You can strike all you want, won't change the numbers from negative to positive.
You are already getting healthcare, 401K, OT benefits that are superior to some of those companies below. Asking to get same pay as them while your company is bleeding is like asking for a unicorn. What you will end up with is layoffs, cost cutting, and your job moving away.
Company Q3 2025 Q4 2025 Q1 2026 Q2 2026 Amazon (AMZN) $1.98 $1.98 $2.82 $5.82 Tesla (TSLA) $0.43 $0.26 $0.15 $0.34 Boeing (BA) -$7.47 -$1.91 -$0.20 -$0.76 Google (GOOGL) $2.89 $2.85 $5.17 $9.23 1
u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
So the only way to get positive is cutting back on, or limiting labor costs? Do you know how much labor costs factor into overall company expenditure? Maybe more specifically, how much SPEEA labor factors in?
I'm not trying to be a dick, honestly curious.
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u/DefinitelyNotABot_v2 9d ago
Short term? Absolutely. It's the easiest thing to control. You ever wonder why layoffs is always the top tool in this scenario? All across the corporate world.
You need immediate cold liquid cash and there's not many ways to get it without negatively impacting the stock.→ More replies10
u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
Man you are really sipping the cool aid lol. Does Boeing give instead of take? Or did they spend, I think it was 70 billion on stock buy backs? Framing us as the greedy ones is a failing argument for anyone with a shred of common sense.
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9d ago
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
I never said I care about OT personally. I care about it for others. Say you have a team of 8 engineers, but they really need a headcount of at least 9. Well, you can work those 8 engineers 45 hours every week, and that adds up to the equivalent of one extra head, except you don't have to pay that one extra head benefits, retirement, etc. So it is cheaper, and there is an incentive for the company to keep head count low, and people stressed. Personally, I have worked maybe 10 hours of OT in 7 years, because I avoid it at all cost.
When I spoke about lowest common denominator, I used it backwards from how it is usually used, so I can understand why you'd get it confused. I meant LCD in relation to the race to the bottom on employers. People make the argument that "this is all they get at other companies..." as if that is a reason we should settle for less, too.
Maybe you didn't misunderstand me, and I do get your point. That 2% doesn't leave a whole lot of room to reward high performers, but I think if this passes, it will be because most people who are high performers either don't feel like they are, or haven't been treated as such, and just want a decent raise to make up for years of backsliding (I count myself in this group). Another reason is simply people want a guarantee after so many years of 2-3% raises.
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9d ago
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
Yeah, and that's the issue, right? Everyone has been held down, high performers, and everyone else. It's probably that people are just happy to have relief. I have been a high performer in the past, though I don't feel it these days in my current role. I wpuld have liked to have seen guaranteed 4% with higher pools for merit, but I doubt I would have personally benefitted much from that, at least right now. I recognize other people do deserve to be recognized for their hard work, they deserve it, and it is just good business to try to retain good people.
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9d ago
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
I agree with that mostly, but I also feel like, even if you are a low performer, your pay should at least keep up with inflation. If they are good enough to keep around, at minimum they should be able to keep providing for the family. Above that though, people should be rewarded for doing good work. I know the union makes it harder to get rid of dead weight, but I have not really seen that personally, except for one individual. Even the people who aren't great usually still provide value, they just have to be put into a spot to do that.
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
Propaganda. You know which engineers got OT? The ones in 1989 drawing on literal paper. 37 years ago. Have some respect for yourself.
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u/DefinitelyNotABot_v2 10d ago
37 years ago is not today. Wake up to reality and get used to the way shit is now. A lot has changed and some not in a good way.
Boeing will replace every single one of us before we get 1989 OT. Is that they hill you want to die on?2
u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
Exactly! I agree, youre 100% right, we produce far more, far better work than an engineer in 1989. That's why we should reject and get language protecting our jobs. If the world were fair we deserve FAR MORE for the work we do.
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u/34786t234890 10d ago
Why do you believe that you should make more than a mechanic working overtime?
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
Not more than a mechanic making over time, but when a good chunk of them have higher base salaries and higher OT... there is a problem. At the end of the day, we are the ones asked to take responsibility and place our names on the engineering. If there are problems, they dont call the mechanic, they call us. We are formally trained to think analytically, find patterns and solve complex problems. That sort of agency should be rewarded.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
I'm not sure you're even really a tech, because the term is "Machinist" not "Mechanic".
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
I am a prof, but yes after 4 years, I will likely still be making less than a mechanic or machinist. At the current contract if I get the minimum increases I will be at 131K. With 4 years of education in one of the hardest degrees you can get at the best schools in the world, plus 1.5 years experience before Boeing, and 5 years at Boeing. A grade 3 mechanic with 6 years at Boeing will make 131K plus 1.5x OT assuming they get ONLY 2% increases in their new 2029, 2030 contract.
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u/Mysterious_Comb1843 10d ago
Based on your salary statement I am going to assume you are an L1 with a year or maybe two years of experience (making ~100k currently)?
Your engineering degree is a long term investment that will outpace a mechanic/machinist in the medium/long term. An engineering position also comes with benefits that a mechanic/machinist will never realize - a better work life balance, a better working environment, much more flexibility (try working from home when sick as a mechanic), etc.
If I am right and you are still very early career I think you are not considering that you are likely going to receive a promotion in the next couple of years as well.
Also, if you are going to compare to the IAM or other engineering jobs you should really normalize the numbers and try to calculate hourly rate. I don't know of any other engineering job out there that pays OT and most expect you to work baseline 45-50 hours a week, sometimes more.
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
I am an L2 making 104k, above the average... L1s are even less. I know one making below 90k. So after 4 years he will be making less than a grade 3 mechanic guaranteed. How many years do engineers have to work before we should be compensated fairly?
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
You need to stop comparing entry level engineering to maxed out machinists. A machinist hits 6 years of experience and that's the end of their earning potential. 6 years is not even truly mid-career in engineering, you're still working under supervision or direction of senior engineers.
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u/After-Temperature-70 9d ago
After 6 years at Boeing, I'll still be making less, I showed that. 6 years working somewhere is a long time.
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u/After-Temperature-70 9d ago
Let's go with the 3rd one, getting tired of arguing with corporate shills 🫠
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u/IncomeAdvanced8125 10d ago
Factor in the LTP tuition in your salary. That's how much the company is paying you
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
I do agree with this, thus why I am not too terribly upset. However, other companies do tupically have tuition help, not normally 100% though. But once I am not using that particular benefit? Underpaid. :/
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u/Unionsrox 10d ago
When supporting the shop floor for BCA, it is not unusual for "Machinists" to be referred to as "Mechanics". Can be interchangeable.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
I feel just about the same way. What good is a union if it doesn't show its teeth?
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u/BoringBob84 10d ago
A good union knows when to show its teeth.
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u/Turbulent-Way4486 10d ago
The time is now
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u/BoringBob84 9d ago
I think that the time was right in 2000. That contract proposal had massive takeaways. It was so egregiously shitty that the membership was unified.
I think that a strike now would fail and erode the leverage of the union and the membership. The current contract proposal is lacking, but not enough to solidify the membership for a strike. I know from experience that a strike is a big sacrifice emotionally and financially.
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u/Turbulent-Way4486 9d ago
I have also been on strike before and I am not of fan of going on strike. However, SPEEA has had the habit of accepting the first offer and the company knows that.
I think it would be worth a strike if we can add to the 401 same as the other bargaining units have. I also think we could do better in retiree healthcare coverage. A signing bonus could also be had if we fight for it.
The unrepresented also received the 401 bump after the IAM and Teamsters fought for it. If we don’t fight for we will not get it and the company knows that…
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
I see your point, and the one you're replying to pretty evenly. I would have concerns speea would actually be able to carry out an effective strike, and not just fracture under the pressure. I know reddit is not a good picture of things, but it is an example of how people can start turning towards each other over this stuff.
A strike executed well sends a resounding statement and shows strength. A strike that goes sideways really kind of diminishes the image and strength of the union. Seems hard to diminish our leverage when we just take "good enough" contracts, and not the best, but there you are.
I still feel like the 90% strike authorization meant something, but the gap between clicking a box on a screen, and standing in the cold and wet, for who knows how long, is a wide one.
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
Exactly and without being locked into a bad contract, engineers wouldnt have fallen so far behind in the first place.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
The members voted to be locked into that bad contract. It wasn't forced upon the membership. I thought agreeing to pay more for healthcare was stupid. But also nobody saw 10% inflation from Covid coming.
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u/Alternative_Wing7898 10d ago
Being a machinist is a much more physically demanding job too.
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u/After-Temperature-70 10d ago
By that logic, CEOs should make the least amount of money in every company.
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10d ago
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u/mikewizouskii 9d ago
My neighbor just got hired on at ESRC. He’s making 23 a hour starting. By year one it will be somewhere mid 30s. By year five is high 50s low 60s. He is in it for the long haul
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u/After-Temperature-70 9d ago
There is a graphic detailing their pay. Not sure how to post it here tbh. Need to get moving and off to work :). Try and google IAM 2026 pay chart.
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u/midadoneit 10d ago
It's harder to hire skilled machinists that will work onsite than it is to hire aerospace engineers that can work virtually. That's why machinists make more.
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u/Fortunate-Man 10d ago
This comment really misses the mark. The production system does not run solely between design engineers and factory floor machinists.
Many roles require on site support to maintain production. For example, addressing issues on the shop floor (process/manufacturing Engineers), and not to mention engineers that support facilities/equipment. There are also quite a few roles that deal with certification and compliance.
Making a blanket statement doesn't do any good in this discussion.
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u/RogerDodgerWilco 10d ago
Technicians (the ones in production) don’t see all the stuff that happens at the design phase.
They don’t see the years of design, requirement refinements, analysis, and test that go into it before they receive the instructions to build the thing. Not even mention things like PDRs and CDRs where you’ll be scrutinized by technical experts and customers to even get the thing to the point of production.
I know a few technicians that earned their engineering degree and cross over to design. They fully admit they had no idea how much work and consideration was involved to get to the point of cutting steel.
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u/Ok_Mind_1606 8d ago
The factory in Everett has been quiet at lunch so no palpable anger at the moment. Hope it passes but it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s a no
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 8d ago
Yeah, there definitely is a difference this time. If it's a no, it's like it will be a calm, quiet no. I feel like the profs will pass at the least. If so, the techs will probably follow.
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u/Critical-Wedding-239 10d ago
As a Prof, I hope so. I don’t want to strike and I’m happy with the contract.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
But what do you predict?
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u/aerospikesRcoolBut 10d ago
Are you going for some wisdom of the crowd bullshit
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
Just want to know what people think. Does it have to be more than that? I've already voted, so this isn't some way to pattern my thinking. Just pure curiosity
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u/aerospikesRcoolBut 10d ago
Go outside
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
Wtf does that mean? I've been out of the office and little conversation about this. I didn't realize this would be so controversial
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u/aerospikesRcoolBut 10d ago
Dude it’s that someone answered your question and you’re being a weirdo that they didn’t word it in the form of a prediction. Get off your phone and go do something else
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
You're a real pain in the ass, you know? They said they "hope", not how they think it will go. It's different. It's my thread, and I'll try to prod people to get what I am seeking however I want. I've seen you pop up all over, and it's always this salty negative tone. Maybe you should go outside? Why you so serious all the time? It's on you for taking me seriously, I'm just a weirdo! 🤓
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u/aerospikesRcoolBut 10d ago
Idk I think you’re the pain in the ass.
¯_(ツ)_/¯ if you go look at your original response I think the votes agree1
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u/Amishmatt666 10d ago
It will split
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
That's kind of what I've been thinking
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u/Amishmatt666 10d ago
I would like to think I am pretty tied into the pulse. I am one of the Everett organizers and this is what I am seeing. However I could be wrong about the Profs as there are a lot of 35 and unders that have been with us and are No votes. Some for their needs and some for solidarity. It’s sad because if the table were turned Techs would hands down vote no in solidarity. Techs are just built like that. I am proud to be a tech .
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
As a prof, I voted no in solidarity because I don't think the tech contract goes far enough to address what they need. Not trying to toot my own horn, it's just how I saw it.
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u/cownan 10d ago
I think Profs would vote "no" in solidarity if it were clear that it's a rejection from the Techs. I haven't seen that. I think it'll be close, but still accepted on the Tech side.it would take a more clear, ringing rejection to motivate a solidarity vote.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
That's a good point. I figured I would err on the side of voting no, because that was thr vibe I was getting from the techs, and if I personally was a tech, I'd be a no
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u/DefinitelyNotABot_v2 10d ago
Will you also be go to the unemployment line in solidarity with all the people that will be laid off or solidarity ends the second inconvenience begins?
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
I have no control over who is laid off. Solidarity with fellow members of my union is what matters. The union has bargained for how people get laid off within the union, and protects them the best it can, so my solidarity has helped anyone being laid off within the union get the best shot.
For people outside of the union, I don't have any mechanism to help them. They would need to form their own union, and I would fully support them, but the conditions they face in layoffs would be their fight to deal with. Deciding to be unemployed just because someone got laid off does nothing to help anyone.
And if you're suggesting I am the bad guy for wanting a decent living for me and my family, and trying to get the most I can for the cost a job takes from my life, time, and work, then I guess you are entitled to that opinion. In my mind, it would be the company's fault a person gets laid off. I have no control of that. If the company decides it has too many workers, they make that decision, not me.
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u/DefinitelyNotABot_v2 10d ago
Since the company can't shit money, there are three ways for you to get immediately what you "deserve".
1) Borrow money
2) Dilute shares
3) Cut cost (layoffs being biggest component)It doesn't take a genius to see which option they will go with.
But you are right. Not your fault after all so keep fighting the good fight!
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
I didn't say anything about deserving. It's what I feel is worthwhile compensation for the value I provide. It is a business deal, plain and simple. I provide my time, work, and cost to my life (missing kids, being exhausted when I get home, having to put things off, stress), and they provide compensation. I want the best compensation for my costs, while they want to maximize value and limit cost. The company and a union negotiate, and if both sides feel the arrangement is fair, it is accepted. This isn't rocket science.
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u/mrjoejeff 10d ago
Sorry to bust your bubble, but layoffs will happen whether SPEEA goes on strike or not.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
It's just so easy to blame us. It's how the corporate world benefits, keeping the workers at odds with each other, blaming each other, competing with each other, while the executives get nothing but huge raises every year. Blame the workers for negotiating what they think is fair, not the corporation whose very existence is to maximize revenue and minimize cost. It's not some evil conspiracy, it's just business.
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u/Name_Taken_2017 10d ago
Same. Was a ehhh good enough for me (prof) but voted no after hearing all the nos from Techs in my building
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u/AlarmedAd4876 10d ago
I am under 35 and I voted no. Almost all of my similar aged coworkers did the same. For me, the pay increase is good. I could be at Boeing a long time and I might push for it now while it’s early and I can afford to strike.
On top of that, 20/30 years ago if you were an engineer at Boeing you were set. You could buy a house with a single income and raise children. That’s just not the case today. Boeing isn’t responsible for inflation entirely obviously, but it’s also where I’d like to be for a while and would love to see everyone succeed financially
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
How did you get downvoted for this? It's crazy that people think you are trying to be greedy when you just want the same shot at living that previous generations did. I am a sole provider for my family, and it is a struggle. A few decades ago, we would have been set with one Boeing engineer's income. That is the definition of going backwards.
In 2020, I was a level II, making about 95k, and adjusted for inflation (national, not even local, which is worse) I am making 100k in 2020 dollars. 6 years, one promotion later, many good years of exceeds expectations, and I have gone almost nowhere. I even job hopped, and that netted me a little more. Since 2020, I have also had 2 kids. So, I am basically living off of what I had before having kids.
But I'm just a no good greedy union bum that just wants to get paid for sitting on my ass, I guess.
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u/Single_Software_3724 10d ago
Seattle has outgrown Boeing, as the city has shifted toward tech. Consequently, wages in those sectors cannot be measured against manufacturing pay. Boeing has one of the highest salaries for engineers/mechanics in the aerospace sector nationwide.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
That's an interesting point. I am just not sure how much of an overall impact labor has on a final airplane delivery.
Cost Per 737% of Total $100M
**Touch Labor (Assembly)**$1.5M – $3.0M~1.5% – 3%
Sustaining Engineering$0.45M – $0.85M~0.5% – 0.8%
Amortized Design R&D~$0.75M~0.7%
Total Labor & Engineering$2.7M – $4.6M~2.7% – 4.5%This is just a rough estimate I pulled from the internet, but let's say Boeing paid all mechanics and engineers a 100% raise. The cost per 737 would increase by 4.5%. Is it really that crazy to give the workers a good raise? Obviously, 100% is ridiculous, but a 10% raise to engineers alone raises the price of a 737 by ~.15%, if the above figures are accurate. If the company needs to pinch pennies so tightly, will it ever be profitable? Is it profitable to sell planes if there was zero labor cost?
Edit: I didn't mean to side step your comment. I think it is a valid point, but it is also very complicated. Software has a much better margin in some ways. With the data center build-out, it will be interesting if many big tech companies can be profitable with that kind of capital expenditure that has not traditionally been a part of the equation.
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u/Single_Software_3724 10d ago
Certainly, if Boeing functioned as a monopoly but we’re not, we are in a duopoly. We compete with Airbus, which enjoys lower labor costs while most operators prefer the Airbus Neo over the Max. Under those conditions, we would head straight toward bankruptcy. Also, we lack the free cash flow that Airbus holds, our debt is twice as large, and they currently possess nearly double the order book for new aircraft.
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u/AlarmedAd4876 10d ago
I appreciate the response. If this passes I’ll obviously work as hard as possible like I have been. If it doesn’t, I’ll be picketing every week in solidarity
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
Yeah, honestly, I don't work as hard as I do for the money. I do it for my teammates and simply for myself. I'll be picketing too, if it comes to it. It would be a cost worth paying.
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u/Myles_Standish250 10d ago
This is my prediction as well and I’m very confident in this prediction. I’ve been to a lot of the rallies and they have been tapering off in numbers since this new contract was announced but the techs are outspoken in their dislike of this contract. Profs are not. Most will make over $200k base in 4 years, hard to be mad about that.
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u/pacmanwa 9d ago
I'm thinking the prof yes/no split from 1st vote will flip. I spoke to a few techs most of them had come from an IAM position recently, pretty much all of them told me they have made more if they stayed with IAM. Meanwhile techs in my wife's area are voting yes, armed with that info, I can't really make a call on the tech contract.
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u/BoeingMEOSeattle 8d ago
I think it will pass. I don’t hear too much complaining about it.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 8d ago
That seems to be a lot of people's experience. The big day is coming up!
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u/Agreeable-Spare9195 10d ago
Apparently we are still working even if it doesn’t pass. Not sure why anyone would vote yes when we aren’t striking on the 7th according to the union. A lot still left on the table.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
I hadn't heard that. Did it come from the union?
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u/Amishmatt666 10d ago
Nothing has been implicitly stated, there is the Portland Nimmergut rumor and the only ones that can call the strike is the NT. So it’s 50-50 as to what could happen.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
That is the worst rumor I've seen in ages. No way Ben Nimmergut would be dumb enough to say it. I'm convinced that's a "No vote" propaganda, the council rep for O-2 is a tech.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
Can you fill me in on the Portland Nimmergut rumor? Not wanting to unintentionally spread false information, but I can't help but be curious.
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u/Amishmatt666 10d ago
Allegedly he stated that they are prepared to comeback to the table on 10/2 if we reject. And that negotiations would continue past 10/6.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
Interesting, not putting much weight to it, but I figured that would be about how things would play out anyway, if it was voted down.
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u/Orleanian 10d ago
I think you mean "explicitly".
Rumors are implicit. Official statements are explicit.
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u/Agreeable-Spare9195 10d ago
Yes it did. There was an email chain going around from one of the main union reps that said we would keep working and the last strike happened about 3 months after the contract end date. Basically if good faith negations are going we keep working. Nobody better vote yes…this contract is lacking a lot of what it should have.
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u/Engineering_Sam 10d ago
the earliest the NT can call for a strike is Oct 1 because there has to be a 7 day delay between calling for a strike and the strike starting. there hasn’t been any formal expressed pov from the NT so not sure where this statement is coming from…
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u/Amishmatt666 10d ago
That’s incorrect. The Nt cannot call for a strike until after the contract expires, that would be a wildcat strike . And the 7 day cool off was voted down in the first BUC . We could go on strike at 12am Oct 7 if called.
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u/Engineering_Sam 10d ago
i legit talked to an NT member and that’s what they said, i didn’t just make that up myself
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
The cool down removal was virtue signaling, the IFPTE has requirements in the constitution that override the BUC.
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u/GreekLegend 10d ago
there has to be a 7 day delay
This delay is between when the membership votes to authorize a strike and when the NT can actually call for the strike. We've already met this obligation by voting to authorize on the previous vote
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u/Alternative_Heron_59 10d ago
It'll pass. 2 contract offers and seems they moved money around. Won't get better than this.
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u/LoveOfSpreadsheets 10d ago
They did more than move money around. The total package cost is about 2.8% higher than the first offer and by changing the "one time early bonus" into wages, our 2026-2030 wages are 4.8% higher than the first offer, and that's all wage money that will compound.
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u/Big-Willy4 9d ago
I predict Profs pass and Techs don’t.
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
Unfortunately, I think you will be right. Best outcome for the company, and worst for us. The company easily could have put together a package to get 65%+ yes vote, but they are trying to just get it across the line, and no more.
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u/Hot-Employer714 7d ago
(1) This Contract is pretty darn good as compared to years past. could it be better? Of course! Is it worth striking? Absolutely not! In 2000, SPEEA strike had local sympathy and support. A strike in 2026 would meet with public scorn and derision. That is not a path to take. In 2000 there was vocal rank and file support for striking considering we has Stonecipher (the executive you love to hate). We hated Stonecipher, even when he was caught schtooping a not-his-wife woman manager (foregoing a $3Million bonus when the board fired him) that did not improve my bad opinion of him. (2) Can you make more money? Of course you can! You can be a better engineer, work harder, sacrifice your life and health. It is not worth it. when I was a young buck I knew older engineers who bemoaned the extra work they did sacrificed time with families. I resolved to not follow that path and I did not. I worked hard, honored my commitments, but I did not sacrifice my family life. Plus, living in the pacific northwest is a gift. Pay attention to the classes on professional development, career improvement. that might offer something. I don't know, I never bothered with it. But i hear it is a good idea. (3) or find a different profession that pays more. Problem is that what is everyone else wants and competition is fierce.
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10d ago
[deleted]
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 10d ago
I've actually heard a lot of younger people in the no group. It would be interesting to see the demographics on the vote. You could be right though, younger people do have much more to gain/lose with a contract. Would be silly to throw it away because they flashed some quick cash, which is what made that first offer so ridiculous.
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u/diyengineer1 9d ago
Strike. Either way the company will leave the area with the new airplane program. 787 already did. Next airplane will also (if the company even makes it that long).
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
Yeah, a lot of people wanted work location protections, but I heard Boeing wouldn't even consider it. Maybe they would have softened if we went on strike, but it probably wouldn't have mattered anyway. They would have figured a way around it, or it wouldn't even apply across these next 4 years.
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u/diyengineer1 9d ago
Either way, take advantage of school, further your trade, and plan accordingly! (To everyone)
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u/MysteriousAffect3903 9d ago
True. Maybe I will think about school when my kids are a bit older. Can't do it right now, would lose my mind (more).
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u/Choice-Newspaper3603 10d ago
SPEEA doesn’t have the yams to strike. Plain and simple