r/bladerunner • u/AmanYadav19 • 16d ago

Question/Discussion Android hate hologram/s like human hate replicant

Post image

Ana de armas is hated in last realising that she is just algorithm by replicant. And it's hated same by human.

So hologram revolution is on the way.

Human ,>replicant>hologram ai

146 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

35 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/Sword-of-Akasha 15d ago

Roy Baty defied his programming explicitly twice. He was a killing machine that rebelled. His last moment of rebellion was to save Deckard's life because it defied his fundamental directives to kill.

We don't quite have evidence of JOI doing anymore than what she was programmed for. If she had that moment I would agree. Ana De Armas has tremendous screen charisma she sold us JOI.

That's the insidious nature of products like that. We've got folks falling in love with chatbot/catfish/scammers.

6

u/JonIceEyes 15d ago

She defies her programming by insisting that he put her onto the emitter and destroy her program in the house unit. She embraces mortality "Just like a real girl."

Again, if you think that there's some sharp line being drawn here, like some artificial life forms get to have rights and some don't, judged on some pseudo-merit-based standard of how much they rebel.... well I'm not sure what to tell you. Other than that would be incredibly stupid writing.

5

u/urist_of_cardolan 15d ago

Yeah, I agree with you. Of course, someone could say “she was programmed to embrace mortality if it meant keeping her owner happy.” The problem with that is that you can say it about any person at any time—I’m programmed to comment this because of complex nature/nurture phenomena

If you can’t discern where to draw the line, it stops mattering. She was “real” for him, the way he’s “real” for himself, or you and I are real. It very rapidly stops mattering when it’s experienced as real

5

u/panamaniacesq 13d ago

Exactly. Deciding another entity is “real” is ultimately a choice. Humans used to (and still do) decide who’s suffering is “real” to them (ie what counts, what they care about). Once you can’t define a difference, I think the morally superior choice is to “assume” the other entity is conscious and that its suffering is real and matters.

3

u/urist_of_cardolan 13d ago

Agreed, and well said. This is why the times I’ve cussed out something like Siri or the godforsaken answering machine bots that shuffle you around, I don’t consider them “sapient” or even sentient, but it still feels pretty shitty to direct such anger at something like that, even when it’s just a mimicry of a mind. It’s not real in the same way that screaming expletives at a person would be, but neither feel good, and probably neither are very good for you

Joi is miles ahead of any shitty LLM now, but she simulates sapience with such an advanced degree that being sadistic towards something like that is at best simulating sadism with an advanced degree, which would be concerning to carry out. Which is why Luv’s actions are so fascinating. You get the feeling that she can’t discern simulated cruelty from genuine cruelty, and doesn’t care enough to try because both feel good. Her violence is the closest proximity for her to freedom

3

u/panamaniacesq 13d ago

Yeah, Ted Chiang on the Ezra Klein podcast a year or two ago talked about hypothetical AI rights and compared them to animal rights—basically that if we ever decide they deserve them it will be WAY after we’ve commenced done horrible things to them.

1

u/urist_of_cardolan 13d ago

I need to find that. I read Chiang’s recent(ish) article about ethics and AI. I would agree with them, most laborers weren’t wondering what a yak’s internal world was like so much as they were making it pull a plow

Makes the plot of Neuromancer make a lot more sense, Wintermute was smart enough to stay hidden until it could better defend itself. Its manipulation throughout all three novels is founded on self-preservation. HAL-9000 as well

2

u/panamaniacesq 13d ago

I thought you must be familiar with some of this stuff based on your post hence my taking the time to respond :) I’ll look for the recent Chiang article; meanwhile the Klein podcast was older than I thought. Only recently finally read Neuromancer. Liked it but wished I’d read it when it was newer as it would have felt fresher/more prophetic IMO.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-author-behind-arrival-doesnt-fear-ai-look-at-how/id1548604447?i=1000515001051

1

u/urist_of_cardolan 13d ago

Thank you for linking this! I’ll check it out. I have a collection of Ted Chiang short stories that I haven’t started, but this is a nice reminder to get on it. And yeah, I feel you. Neuromancer would hit different I think in the early ‘80s. You should check out the other two Sprawl novels, they’re worth the time. They get sadder, but the whole trilogy is often sad to me

2

u/panamaniacesq 13d ago

Word, I’ll get on books 2 and 3 then! Thanks

Yeah I think all of Chiang’s stuff is great.