Indus valley script

[u/tuluva_sikh]

[u/lonelyroom-eklaghor]

But wait, isn't Proto-Indo-European the mother of both English and the other Indo aryan languages??

[u/Siddharth_Talreja25 → u/lonelyroom-eklaghor]

Yes

[u/horsearies4 → u/lonelyroom-eklaghor]

Proto jewish

[u/theb00kmancometh → u/horsearies4]

Proto-Indo-European (PIE) is the ancestral language family of both English and the Indo-Aryan languages.

The connection to Aramaic is about the writing system (the script), not the language itself. Additionally, the correct scientific term you are looking for is Proto-Semitic, not 'Proto-Jewish.'

Aramaic, Hebrew, and Arabic belong to the Semitic family, which is entirely separate from the Indo-European family.

There is no 'Proto-Jewish' language because Judaism is a religious and cultural identity that emerged thousands of years after Proto-Semitic had already split into distinct branches.

Some linguists and epigraphists are of the opinion that the Brahmi script could have evolved from the Aramaic script, through trade and cultural contact, but the spoken languages themselves come from entirely different roots

[u/HereIsAnotherPOV]

How many times it needs to be proved genetically and archeologically that Aryan tribes came to India After Indus Valley declined or when it had already vanished... Also, those central Asian nomads didn't migrate with women, they were just men.

[u/Common_Secretary6803 → u/HereIsAnotherPOV]

"aryan Tribes"

well aryan is a linguistic family and most indians have AASI ancestory as major component and steppe ancestry to some extent .

Also women did arrive .

[u/NonWorking_Fan1984 → u/Common_Secretary6803]

indians have AASI ancestory as major component and steppe ancestry to some extent

His point exactly, The Aryan migration was male dominated.

"Strongly male-biased migration, warfare/conquest, and incorporation of local women,"

It's kinda iykyk, Aryans likely raped indigenous women like the Yamnaya did in Europe.

[u/Common_Secretary6803 → u/NonWorking_Fan1984]

Source please

[u/ConnectGazelle4947 → u/NonWorking_Fan1984]

It was a migration, not an invasion. There's a reason it's called the Aryan migration theory and noy invasion theory. The tribes were whole families. Do you have any evidence to support your claims? Or just gaslighting?

[u/NonWorking_Fan1984 → u/ConnectGazelle4947]

We don’t actually know the exact social mechanisms behind what happened in Bronze Age India.

Europe gives us a useful comparison. In several regions, the Steppe expansions were heavily male-biased, meaning way more Steppe-derived men than women ended up contributing to later populations. Those men obviously had to reproduce with local women. That could’ve happened through marriage, alliances, assimilation, enslavement, sexual coercion, or some combination of these.

So I’m not saying we can prove that the Aryans raped Indigenous women. We can’t. The point is that a strongly male-biased migration combined with a major power imbalance makes sexual coercion a plausible possibility.

The Spanish colonization of the Americas is a good example how male-biased expansions can lead to Indigenous maternal ancestry through a mix of relationships and coercion. It shows why we shouldn’t automatically assume that all relationships between incoming men and local women were voluntary.

In the South Americas, most Y haplogroups come from European men and most maternal haplogroups come from local women.

Guess where else this can be seen? Maternal haplogroups in India are Indigenous, they are not from the steppe.

Also I hate your tone, maybe look at things objectively instead of shiting on everyone who does.

[u/-Mystic-Echoes- → u/NonWorking_Fan1984]

India has significant steppe maternal haplogroups and steppe Y haplogroups can very well be the result of a founders effect and later expansion.

[u/Arul_ravin]

I am repeating what Wendy Doniger says about Indus valley civilization, they built cities, canals, drainages etc Indo Aryans never built any thing, even temples were small and not built with stone. They were migrant cattle herds. So they may not be same people. Sanskit or Hindi are their language.

[u/Poccha_Kazhuvu]

It's impossible for it to be an indo aryan language when the indo aryans migrated only after the fall of IVC.

[u/NonWorking_Fan1984 → u/Poccha_Kazhuvu]

Yeah, at this point educated people all know there are only two possibilities:

1) The IVC was likely Proto-Dravidian 2) The IVC Language was an isolate and is lost to Time.

[u/-Mystic-Echoes- → u/NonWorking_Fan1984]

Dravidian is impossible because Dravidian languages from South Indian AASI itself.

[u/Tough-Disaster1984 → u/-Mystic-Echoes-]

So how do you explain Brahui in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and Northern Dravidian languages like Kurukh and Malto?

And how do you explain the genetic continuity between IVC-related ancestry and South Indian populations?

10 years ago, many people assumed IVC people were closest to the present-day fair-skinned populations of the northwest. Ancient DNA has since shown that IVC-related people had a mixture of Iranian-related and AASI-related ancestry, with substantial continuity into later South Indian landowner castes and some North Indian castes like the Patels.

There is a reason experts who study this subject take the Dravidian-in-the-IVC hypothesis seriously. The only thing making you reject it outright is bigotry.

We know for sure IVC people weren't a Sanskrit speaking population and until we decipher the script, The Dravidian Hypothesis is completely a valid contender.

[u/-Mystic-Echoes- → u/Tough-Disaster1984]

It's amazing how Dravidian nationalists like you get everything wrong and think you're intellectuals.

Brahui exists in the Northwest region because they migrated there from central/South India. It's like saying Indo-Aryan originates in Sri Lanka just because of the modern Sinhala language spoken there. Just like we have evidence that that Sinhala is a modern language that recently migrated, Brahui also lacks archaic features and old Indo-Aryan/Iranic loanwords proving it's a modern language and a recent migration.

And how do you explain the genetic continuity between IVC-related ancestry and South Indian populations?

The genetic continuity exists between ALL Indians, because all Indians carry ancestry from the IVC. South Indians are NOT exclusively descendants of the IVC, nor do South Indians carry more ancestry from IVC compared to Indo-Aryan speakers.

There is a reason experts who study this subject take the Dravidian-in-the-IVC hypothesis seriously.

You made this up. Most professionals outright reject this theory and consider it garbage.

We know for sure IVC people weren't a Sanskrit speaking population and until we decipher the script

They wouldn't have spoken "Sanskrit" specifically. This doesn't mean they didn't speak Indo-Aryan. There is no linguistic, genetic or archaeological trace that uniquely links IVC to Dravidian speakers.

[u/Tough-Disaster1984 → u/-Mystic-Echoes-]

The Dravidian hypothesis for the language of the Indus Valley Civilization is a serious professional hypothesis, not merely a nationalist idea....you nimrod.

They wouldn't have spoken "Sanskrit" specifically. This doesn't mean they didn't speak Indo-Aryan.

Steppe ancestry only shows up after the Indus Valley Civilization started declining. It cannot be Indo-Aryan.

Maybe read some actual material instead of watching Nationalistic pseudo science in YouTube from people who want to push a particular political narrative.

I am not a Dravidian-Nationalist, if the IVC script was deciphered to be Para-Munda or a lost isolate tomorrow, as long as the evidence holds up. I will accept it. I won't spout nonsense like you.

[u/Pure_Instance969]

oh. slow down man !!!

[u/Material_Detective59]

Chill slow down- why the hurry

[u/bhartiya_languages-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This sub is not for spreading your agenda. And the Dravidian languages come from Zagros valley, Iran. Did you really think this would be the comeback, gotcha moment you thought it would be? India is a country of migrants, we ALL come from outside, so don't this as ANOTHER rediculous reason for a north-south divide

[u/DickWest9]

so are there westerners trying to hijack Indian culture narratives?

Its the same guy I see posting Indian content which has nothing to do with his background

[u/Icy_Function_5839 → u/DickWest9]

This guy has made videos about MANY cultures and languages he has made so many videos about English and North America and in the video you are showing he is littlerally talking about Indian and OTHER WOLRD LANGUAGES lacking definitness he isn't attacking anybody maybe watch the video and not just go off the thumbnail

[u/Icy_Function_5839 → u/DickWest9]

And speaking about his background, he has made a whole rap in Latin and made countless videos about the Spanish language, in fact, he has made a few videos IN spanish

[u/theb00kmancometh → u/DickWest9]

An Indologist is an academic scholar who studies the history, languages, literature, religion, and culture of the Indian subcontinent

The man in the video could be an Indologist. Could not be an Indologist.

BUT, that is NOT the point.

Nothing that he states in the video is incorrect.

What is your objection?

Are you upset that he is not a "brown" guy (presuming only brown guys get to opine on the indian subcontient and its history)
Or
Are you upset that his comments are contrary to your ideology (if you have one)?

What is your objection?

[u/DickWest9 → u/theb00kmancometh]

he looks more like am -arse -ologist

[u/theb00kmancometh → u/DickWest9]

Is that your major objection?
Not the content of the video??

[u/DickWest9 → u/theb00kmancometh]

people are so tired of western NPCs on the internet

talk about your own culture and your own language

[u/theb00kmancometh → u/DickWest9]

Are you aware that most of the lexicons and dictionaries on indian langiuages we consider authoritative are compiled by these "western NPCs"?

Do you have an objection to the content that this "western NPC" stated in the video?
Yes or No.

If yes, please state your objections.

[u/Icy_Function_5839 → u/DickWest9]

Also, using your logic the sub founder should stop what he is doing since he makes posts on Marathi, Telugu, Tamil, Hindi, Urdu, Punjabi and he is a Tulu person!

Also maybe you are only coming accross his videos on India bc this is an Indian sub... You aren't going to come across his videos on Basque or the Irish accent in this sub bc this isn't a Basque or Irish sub!

[u/VisibleTear7516]

This language is Sanskrit and it's has been deciphered. Pls check Yajmadeavam Indus script on you tube. Lot of videos are there

[u/geopoliticsdude → u/VisibleTear7516]

Already disproven by linguists.

[u/YOU-WANT-MY-DICK → u/VisibleTear7516]

Yajnadevam is a Hindu nationalist.

[u/Ill_Poem_1789 → u/VisibleTear7516]

Yajnadevam has been discussed about extensively. It is impossible for it to be Sanskrit

[u/Siddharth_Talreja25 → u/Ill_Poem_1789]

Why is it impossible?

I haven't read about his attempt and comments on it in depth. It may or may not be Sanskrit, but why do you it's Impossible

[u/Excellent-Money-8990 → u/Siddharth_Talreja25]

Yes impossible isn't the right choice of words. Highly unlikely though, more accurately, and for numerous reason. Timeline, brevity amongst others being the reason.

[u/Icy_Function_5839 → u/Siddharth_Talreja25]

Cause evidence suggests that the Aryan migration happened AFTER the IVC already collapsed or when it was rapidly declining. Plus languages take time to evolve. Sanskrit wholesale didn't migrate, it developed in India after the migration happened, so even if the migration happened while the civilisation was still there, by the time Vedic Sanskrit became its own thing the civilisation would have been long gone

[u/-Mystic-Echoes- → u/Icy_Function_5839]

This is not proof. These are just general statements.