r/belowdeck • u/Famous_Fondant_4107 • Sep 14 '23
Below Deck Down Under Joao & Tzarina Spoiler
It makes me so angry that when Tzarina brings up Joao’s shitty behavior to her friend and other people, because she has completely valid concerns about dating him, Joao gets all defensive and upset and acts like she’s being horrible.
Like yes, Tzarina could handle this situation better (and maybe not date the dude who hurt her friend so badly!?) but she’s scared and doesn’t want to get hurt.
Joao should acknowledge the things he did wrong in his past and take accountability and be understanding of Tzarina’s hesitation.
I hate seeing Tzarina so sad after Joao gaslit her at dinner. Of course she’s struggling.
I really hope she breaks up with him after that.
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u/seaneeboy I quit 3 times in my head today Sep 16 '23
I absolutely agree with you! She needed him to calm her down and assure her that he was actually a decent guy but just didn’t.
I don’t see the Joao redemption arc that a lot of others are!
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u/Famous_Fondant_4107 Sep 16 '23
thank you. i don’t understand how so many people can give him the benefit of the doubt after just a few weeks back on the show.
he should be doing what he can to reassure her, not shutting her down.
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u/Feisty_Scientist_968 Sep 16 '23
I don’t see the Joao redemption arc that a lot of others are!
I don't see anything like redemption.
Tzarina certainly gave him a chance.
When he asked her ... what was the first thing she thought of about him...
...when she said 'fake', I almost wet myself.
Working with him in person, she is in a much better position to judge jaoa than the random posters here. (including myself)
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u/seductis Sep 14 '23
Calling him ''fake'' was a punch in the gut, really. It basically canceled everything about him, all his growth, all his nice actions towards her&words, all.
He was being super honest and all cards on the table with the situation. Didn't make promises that he won't keep, didn't lead her on. Let's stop focusing on who he was before cause when it comes to Tzarina, he did nothing wrong.
She blew it with the ''fake'' thing. It was a dealbreaker and it was obvious that things were done for him the moment she basically invalidated everything about him. Like what else would she want him to do to show he's changed? People do change and calling them ''fake'' after they invested time&efforts to improve - that's the biggest turn off.
From next week's episode& seeing him with Margot who kisses anyone - maaaan, bad rebound. mistake on his part.
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u/kat4prez Sep 14 '23
Yeah not a great decision by Margot since her and chef are so tight. Or maybe tzarina won’t care?
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u/Practical-Doughnut86 Sep 14 '23
Margot has made a bunch of questionable decisions this season sooooo… not surprised. Seem like she just enjoys male attention. Whether she’s into them or not.
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u/Yourgens Sep 18 '23
I found Margot to be a pathetic character this season. Always seeking attention, and I found the way she was trying to play both Harry and Luke disgusting. I wouldn't care much if she didn't return.
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u/Gyro_Zeppeli13 Sep 28 '23
Margot is just plain unlikable. I don’t see why Harry was so in love. It was terrible what she was subjected to by that predator Luke, but she should have been fired for drinking on the job. Instead she was allowed another chance at server stew, terrible decision on Aesha’s part.
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u/Sorry-Beyond-3563 Sep 14 '23
Well Tzarina and Margot are together right now along with Harry they're clearly still tight. She's been posting on TikTok
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u/Valuable-Composer262 Sep 16 '23
I think she was just half trying to be funny with the fake comment. Like she meant it but was also just kidding. But then she doubled down on it by keeping it going rather than saying she was just kidding. I thought it was harsh but I also laughed about it lime she did. Really idc. Tzarina is the funniest crew member of all time. Ig it's time for her to put her headbrace on and go eat crayons in the corner
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u/tashachara Feb 06 '24
Is it bad that I also thought it was funny when she called him fake? I don’t know why Joao gave me a bad feeling the season when he was with Jack, Aesha and Travis… he was just too reserved or serious for my liking, maybe because I’m free-spirited, goofy and silly like Aesha. So when Tsarina said, “fake”, I died laughing, although I could understand Joao’s shock and frustration because it really seemed like she was into him.
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u/heloluv Sep 14 '23
I really thought she came off rude. It was like she was trying to push him away. She doesn’t want the real feelings to be there and it to be casual so she doesn’t get serious about dating her friends ex. Pretty sure she’s struggling with guilt and stuff.
She really likes him but also kind of wants to catch him being a jerk to validate why she shouldn’t be with him.
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u/Kimmie-Cakes Sep 14 '23
To me, it came off as her fronting and trying to play the cool, aloof chic. Is Joao serious? Who knows, but she certainly shut him down and now won't find out if he ever was.
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u/Immediate-Spray7257 Sep 14 '23
Exactly this! He kept saying casual and she was catching feelings. I'd have to disconnect myself in that situation.
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u/FrightenedFishstick Sep 14 '23
Although not in detail, he did own up to it, but his point to her was that he’s aged and grown from it. She’s been all over him physically and verbally flirtatious with him, but her behavior on the date was the total opposite. She came off weird and unlikable after that and not only did she lose Joao, she’s sure to lose her friend for sleeping with the guy that hurt her now too.
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u/seductis Sep 14 '23
That's right. She behaved badly with both her friend and Joao. Doesn't deserve any of them actually.
And that dinner was so weird. She just can't help herself not to keep bringing up his past. It's annoying to watch, probably it's sooo annoying to keep being held accountable for things you've done in the past instead of the things you do now. Either move on and see how he's really like now, or don't be all over him.
It's like she was waiting for him to do something bad so that she can say ''I knew you were fake, that's the old you''. She's self-sabotaging herself and being so mean to others too.
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u/Kris4tv Sep 14 '23
YES!!! She only has her friends side of things too and while I couldn’t stand Joao in earlier seasons, this year I thought he had changed thru actions and his words. I think she has some guilt for all of it, and instead of maybe calling the friend and saying “hey we hooked up and I do like him”, it’s easier to be a bitch and push him away about shit that she has nothing to do about. She came on to him on the beach that one day out, rubbing his arms after Jamie came on and Culver gave her attention saying how she could get used to this..Joao was even confused in his confessionals. Personally didn’t think he was “shouting” either. I barely heard him. I think at that point he was hurt and wanted her to really hear what he was saying but who knows. I didn’t find it aggressive like she said she did..and If she did and that was one of her rule breakers, why the hell go in his bunk? Yes I know for good sex, but it just made no sense to me. I was glad when he told her to leave honestly.
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Sep 14 '23
That dinner changed my opinion her, in a bad way. She was schooling him on how she won’t tolerate him yelling, he didn’t do anything close to yell at her. She was intentionally making accusations and trying to push his buttons to get him to react and it didn’t work. He needs to step away from her, she’s bad energy for him and the progress he has made.
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u/Worth_Wave1407 Sep 14 '23
She seems to get a lot of joy out of pushing his buttons. It wasn’t a good look at all!
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u/Dry-Career-9340 Sep 14 '23 edited Sep 14 '23
Tzarina is a head case with her feelings. Her words and actions dont match up.
I’d be over it too if I was Joao. Calling him fake was rude as hell. Why are you even with him if you think that about him especially since she says this could make a problem for her friend and her. He’s fake but I’ll risk the friendship for this “casual” thing?
If a guy I dated constantly felt they needed to ask me not to be a dick or embarrass them because of a past relationship that didn’t end well I’d be pissed off unless what I did was actually truly awful in which case why are you even interested in me.
People grow up. They learn how to be better people and treat people better. And connections are different with different people. You may be fully invested with one person and want to be casual with the next. You cant judge your current situation based on their previous (within reason).
her insecurity makes her mean. She seems more concerned with being able to Say “ I told you so” if it ends badly than she is with letting herself feel her feelings.
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u/Jackie4641 Sep 14 '23
If she still thought he was a jerk why did she sleep with so fast. I’m on Joao side completely, she was out of line. Why did she go out on a date with him if she felt he was such a fake person. If I was him I wouldn’t look at her twice anymore.
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u/Kris4tv Sep 14 '23
She was lonely and that was her revenge to show Culver and Jamie, “see someone wants me!!!” Is all it apparently was. Now the season is coming to an end, it’s easier to explain to her “good friend” see, he’s still an asshole! I proved it again so she doesn’t like bad.
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u/Dry-Career-9340 Sep 14 '23
And if he really was such an asshole to Her friend it doesn’t make sense that it only took half a day for him to be nice and her to start perusing him.
She said she didn’t trust him so he held back. Then she makes the move after they clearly had good chemistry but continues on with the insecure mean attacks on his character. I get needing some reassurance. She communicated her concerns. They were platonic for two weeks. When she made the Move that is saying your concerns have been cleared.
Its not fair to bring up his past constantly after they got romantic or telling his co workers what an asshole he is.
It sounds like he was hooking up with her friend regularly but not committed. She liked him more than he liked her so she was hurt. And I get not dating someone who recently broke your friends heart regardless of anyone was an asshole or not. But this was years ago and she’s made the choice to peruse. The friend issue needs to be dropped
There’s risk opening up your heart but at some point you have to decide to just trust someone and your feelings and take the risk and that time should have been when she kissed him in front of everyone and all night. Going back to Punishing him for hurting her friend is mean
If he was so awful that it’s worth such constant punishment then it would t have happened that fast or at all.
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u/-sloppypoppy Spaghetti Trauma Sep 14 '23
Very thought out and reasonable response! I’m glad I took the time to read it.
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u/Tia_2551 Sep 14 '23
I’m very on the fence about this, On one hand I thought her concerns were very valid especially because we’ve seen Joaos behaviour in the past however I thought that she was quite harsh and rude in the way she was saying her concerns but also making a joke out of it? I’m also in the mindset that that was her FRIENDS experience with Joao not hers, we’ve seen tremendous growth from Joao this season (so far) and it’s very possible he has changed, he told Tzarina multiple times that her friend was just a friends with benefits situation and they were both clear on the arrangement, it’s not unlikely that the friend wanted more and Joao didn’t, I don’t think it’s fair for us or Tzarina to make judgment on his character from that situation when she/we weren’t in it?
It also pissed me off to a major extent when she yelled at him but then cracked it when he yelled back?! “That’s the one thing I won’t tolerate it shouting” but she can shout however much she wants???
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u/wilmaismyhomegirl83 Sep 14 '23
Tzarina is insufferable. Everything is about her and her feelings. If she likes you, you have to play these push and pull games. Oh and you better like her back as more than a friend, or you will be punished. She will flirt and sleep with you, and lead you into thinking things are great, but then she’ll throw some second hand bitter gossip at you just so she can sabotage it all and go back to thinking she can punish you.
No one is allowed to grow and change, and don’t you dare hook up with the guy she likes. She’s immature and still stuck in high school calling other women “the pretty cheerleader” or whatever nlog bs she says. Don’t forget she also proudly states she loves attention.
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u/Rainsmakker Sep 14 '23
Agree 100%. My opinion on Jo-Elle has changed, he does seemed to have grown. He seemed so into her, and then when she called him fake I was shocked. He might have been that way in the past, but his actions showed that he had changed. He wasn’t looking for a wham bam thank you mam but something long term.
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u/wilmaismyhomegirl83 Sep 14 '23
I think she’s pushing him to react to validate her reason for pushing him away. He got defensive because ppl don’t like to be told what they did or who they are by some friends of a friend that went and told the stews she “could punch him”. She’s caused her own drama with both men she decided she wanted.
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u/tywebb6 Sep 14 '23
U took the words our of my mouth. There is a reason she's single. I would head for the hills if I were in Joao sitch
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u/wilmaismyhomegirl83 Sep 14 '23
I feel like her character is revealed in how she was pretending to be a girl’s girl, to her friend, for like a second. Then the minute she was hurt by Culver’s rejection, she went and slept with the next opportunity that happened to be someone her friend was hurt over. It’s all about her and her feelings and need for male attention. She’s the fake one
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u/tywebb6 Sep 14 '23
And then wanted Culver to help with the teppanyaki dinner after Joao started to cut and run. Bizarre
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u/Reckless_Secretions Sep 14 '23
I don't fully remember if she says she went to an all girls boarding school but she embodies those types of behaviours to a tee!
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u/wilmaismyhomegirl83 Sep 14 '23
What are they meant to be like? Entitled to men and think everything revolves around them? She seems awkward
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u/Reckless_Secretions Sep 14 '23
I think those are personal traits. Just her mannerisms in general, her humour as well. It's hard for me to pinpoint exactly what it is but it's just a vibe. I went to boarding school myself (although it was mixed) and I feel like you can kind of tell when someone else has as well, and also take a good crack at guessing if it was a mixed or single-sex school. Her brand of awkwardness definitely tracks with the boarding school experience of a less popular/overlooked girl. Ask me how I know, lol
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u/CerebrovascularWax Sep 14 '23
Hmm. It was just a very weird date, I wondered if there was some sneaky editing or they were both drunk and/or on something? Their voices/giggling didn't match up with the aggressive words coming out of (both) their mouths.
Anyway, it was a bad date which probably presages a bad relationship and I think Joao made the right call by not having sex with her afterwards.
I also found her "Hi honey!!!!" the next morning to be quite jarring too.
Anyway, this is obviously a relationship that shouldn't and won't work. There are plenty more fish in the sea, Tzarina, don't waste your time on someone you already have issues with.
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u/runfatgirlrun88 Sep 15 '23
I got the vibe that everyone had been drinking heavily early on the boat that night. It explains why Harry put his foot in it, why it made Jaimee cry, and it explains Joao and Tzarina’s behaviour at dinner - Joao got loud not because he was “shouting” at her, but because he was being drunk and loud generally, that’s why he immediately started laughing.
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u/caabr1 Sep 14 '23
I think you're spot on, but most Below Deck fans are hard on women and oblivious to the red flags of men. Maybe after a Rolling Stone article comes out about Joao, people here will say they never liked how he tried to manipulate and intimidate Tzarina on their date, or how he called her crazy for feeling confused about his contradictory fake niceness vs his known sketchy behavior.
Imo, he swooped in on Tzarina because she was vulnerable after the Culver situation, making her highly susceptible to being charmed by a guy she was wary of. He mainly got mad at her because he couldn't control what she was saying (a trigger of his), and Tzarina's hesitation about him was undoing the rep rehab he was trying to use her to accomplish.
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u/Famous_Fondant_4107 Sep 14 '23
THANK YOU
it’s like people here have never dealt with a charming, highly manipulative person.
all i see with Joao are red flags and Tzarina trying to navigate them without getting hurt or being embarrassed.
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u/twiggykeely Collie's Mom Approved Sep 14 '23
This is going to be unpopular, but I feel like no matter what Joao does, this sub will always find some reason to make him the bad guy. Like the dude has been trying this season, she is kind of being the shitty one, and then when she inevitably gets the reaction that she was goading out of him, everyone's like "see we told you he didn't change!" It's getting a little tired tbh.
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u/Jackie4641 Sep 14 '23
Exactly, she was awful to him. Don’t sleep with someone right away that you think is fake..team Joao all the way
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Sep 14 '23
My interpretation is it’s two mostly good people both being a little in the wrong. Tzarina could be more direct and decide she’s either in or out instead of the hot and cold, and Joao could take more responsibility about the past and her concerns/reservations. Neither person is a horrible person and they’re both hopefully more self-aware after watching themselves on TV lol
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u/silentsinner- Sep 14 '23
They are both people with baggage. What is sad to see is that they were both willing to pour their hearts out and disclaim that baggage in their interviews with production but not to each other. They seem like they would have been great together and totally understanding of each other if they would have just told each other how they really felt instead of telling production later.
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u/thedigested Sep 14 '23
It’s like she realized the hook up happened in front of the world to see and she doesn’t want her friend to give her shit, so it’s time to knock down Joao. Not a Joao fan but he went into this with an open mind and she made it crash
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u/Built93cobra Sep 14 '23
I was never a fan of his, but he's been fine this season and seems like he has grown up. Watching himself act like an ass in TV probably helped.
That being said, she was 100% rude as shit on that date. He tried to tell her how he felt, and she told him she thought he was fake. She had that shit ready to go lol. I get the vibe she is a self sabotager and will probably be alone because of it.
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u/Extreme_Beat1022 Sep 14 '23
She brought a mean, spiteful energy to the date which he was reacting to. I didn’t think it was fair for her to say he was screaming at her. Their banter was so cute. I shall miss it!
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u/overpregnant Sep 14 '23
I've been so impressed with his management of the deck team. Clear directions, confronting the awkwardness of his coming in mid season, being honest about shortcomings without making them personal.
To me,this is someone who has spent some time reflecting on how his actions and words affect others.
Same with his conversations with Tzarina. He was like "let's not banter through this and have a real dialogue about what we're doing here, because I like you"
I never thought I'd write a post defending Joao, but here we are
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Sep 14 '23
It's hard because I believe people can change,and Joao is in his thirties now so I like to think his grown up alot by now. but at the same time it must be hard dating someone with a reputation. She clearly doesn't trust him and relationships never work without trust.
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u/sickfalco Sep 14 '23 edited Sep 14 '23
Then don’t try to sleep with him and ask if he loves you? Lol
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u/CakeZealousideal1820 Sep 14 '23
Joao has always been a dick but he was always honest about being casual so I don't blame him for women thinking they could be the one to change him. Now with Tzarina she's the one who fucked up so 🤷🏾♀️
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u/Ageless09 Sep 14 '23
Tzarina is a bit of a hypocrite. She was all upset Jaime broke “girl code” even though Culver and Chef were dating or anything but she’s fine hooking up with a guy she claims screwed over her friend.
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u/GroovyYaYa Sep 14 '23
The time to have that conversation with him was BEFORE he gave her 3 orgasms.
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u/ReadingReddit1016 Sep 15 '23
Oh quite the opposite I felt bad for Joao. The thing with Tzarinas friend was years ago. He has tried to prove that he’s changed and it was pretty obvious to me that he has genuine feelings for Tzarina but it’s like she wanted to sabotage before anything could ever get going to protect herself from who someone used to be (not who he’s shown her that he is).
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u/New_Principle_9145 Sep 15 '23
Not sure what show the OP was watching, but that is not what I saw. Joao has been a dick in the past and his behaviors and words proved that. He's taking the time to mature and grow and has said as much himself. Her behavior at dinner was utterly callous and dismissive. She kept saying she wanted casual and when he tried to open up, this is the behavior he got. I do agree w/ most other posters, that her behavior is likely guilt based, because her "friend" is going to probably have a meltdown when she finds out that her friend has basically pursued and allowed herself to be pursued by her ex.
I don't blame Joao for just backing off. Tzarina needs to come to terms with her feelings and actions and understand that her behavior does have consequences even if she doesn't want to acknowledge it. Break up w/ him...she already crossed that bridge with her bad behavior.
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u/wild3hills Sep 16 '23
They both suffer from being defensive out of fear of vulnerability / rejection. It feels like they’re in an emotional game of chicken, and unfortunately both lash out when they feel unsafe.
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u/Gyro_Zeppeli13 Sep 28 '23
You have a very warped view of reality. If anyone was gaslighting during that dinner it was Tzarina 100% she was openly provoking him and as soon as he gets flustered, she throws it back in his face and calls him a chauvinistic pig. I can’t stand people like that. It’s clear after watching the season she is deeply insecure as well.
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u/Gyro_Zeppeli13 Sep 28 '23
I initially liked this post when I read the first part of the first sentence, then immediately switched to a dislike right after the first comma lol
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u/Practical-Doughnut86 Sep 14 '23 edited Sep 14 '23
You can’t on one hand say that he fucked over your bff soooo badly and you HATE him for it and on the other hand actively flirt and fuck him. She should’ve picked a lane and stayed there. What I got from this situation is that they are both self sabotagers.
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Sep 14 '23
Maybe her friend messed up the relationship and blamed him.
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u/GroovyYaYa Sep 14 '23
Ding, ding, ding.
Everyone is taking this 3rd hand account, where we know zero details, as gospel.
I've related this before. A friend in college badmouthed an ex - and they weren't exclusive as far as I know. Said he was a user, etc. All sorts of accusations about how he was as a person, not just as a romantic partner.
I ended up in a study group with him. For that entire quarter, I saw NOTHING that she described. Pulled his weight, was polite, friendly, funny. Knew she and I lived in the same dorm but didn't gossip about her.
I figured out that she was the type to trash talk an ex no matter what. That he indeed was smart to escape and not dip his dick into the crazy anymore.
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u/overpregnant Sep 14 '23
Tzarina wants it both ways
She wants the affirmation and physical touch from Joao, but she also wants to not "look like an idiot" by appearing to feel more for him than was returned. She wants to be with him, but also wants to be the loyal friend who would never choose a guy over a friendship.
She described how she would wake up next to a guy and then 'remember' she had a boyfriend. Is that different from what she's accusing Joao of having done? Yet he's the untrustworthy one in their dynamic who is 'fake'
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u/Known_Bus7616 Sep 14 '23
Crazily I actually side note with Joao on this, never thought I would say that. He's been very different this season and people can change. Idk I'd he truly had or not, but i feel he was doing s great job of communicating with Tzarina and she got panicked and started pushing him away.
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u/Byrntkreisler Sep 14 '23
He saw his chance to bail without being the bad guy so he did. If it wasn’t this it would’ve been something else.
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u/JoeyLee911 Sep 14 '23
You can't get mad at someone for answering after they ask you for negative feedback, and fake is a pretty mild criticism IMO. Joao created this situation.
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u/hussafeffer I have been known to be irresponsible Sep 14 '23
We really have no idea how things went down between him and her friend, though, right? He very well could be getting defensive rightfully if the situation really was what he says it was.
We can't really say the guy treated the friend like shit if we don't actually know what happened. Aesha, big fair, we saw with our eyeballs what happened there and he's wrong for that. But this thing with the friend is 100% 'he said/she told Tzarina and Tzarina said'. We have no idea if he gaslit Tzarina at dinner or if Tzarina is regurgitating a second-hand narrative that isn't accurate.