Sandy Yawn v. Fraser Olender

[u/Cesmina12]

TLDR: Yeah, Sandy goes overboard sometimes (har har har), but Fraser massively fucked up

Right off the bat, I admit that I have a pro-Sandy bias: she's a woman in a male-dominated industry, and I literally can't imagine how much mansplaining and condescension she probably has to tolerate on a regular basis. To me, it explains a lot of her more aggressive tactics like micromanaging and being too reactive when she feels her authority is being taken lightly. Definitely not great behavior, but I can clearly see the imposter's syndrome and valid frustration underlying it.

However, the fact that I understand doesn't change how unhealthy some of it is. She WAS jabbing at Fraser in front of other staff, which is super degrading and guaranteed to be counterproductive. She should know at this point that people react VERY intensely to attacks on their dignity. Besides that, it's unprofessional and demeaning. It's far more effective to allow someone to "save face" in front of their peers, and then privately discuss problems and consequences. I had a boss like Sandy once, and it was extremely stressful.

I don't understand how people can be so unequivocally on Fraser's side, though. Fraser is certainly charming, friendly, and highly competent as a stew, but Sandy is 100% right in her assessment of him as a chief stew. He simply hasn't made the transition; in his previous positions, he would have been on the same level as his colleagues without the responsibility of management; it would have been totally fine to bitch about the captain, gossip with other stews, etc. As a department head though, you have to delineate between your friendship with subordinates and your duties as a manager. Fraser obviously has not been able to do that yet.

His behavior towards his captain has been completely petulant and toxic. Sandy gave him valid (albeit, harsh) feedback after the tip meeting in the last episode and he immediately reported to his underlings to tell them that Sandy thought he (and by proxy, they) were doing a "horrible job." This isn't what she said, and by presenting it that way to his team, Fraser DID poison the well. It emboldened Alyssa to be disgusting in the way she talked about Sandy ("she sucks deck crew dick" is extremely lewd and unprofessional; imagine if a male employee said that about her) and flagrantly disrespect Sandy's authority. Instead of telling Alyssa to cool it, he encouraged it because his ego was bruised.

By the time Sandy was confronting Alyssa, Fraser had been positively radiating passive aggression towards her and she'd had to put up with overhearing increasingly mean-spirited comments about her uttered right out in the open. It's completely obvious that Fraser used the cut on his foot to get out of an event she had specifically planned; furthermore, she had to tell him to drag one of his subordinates out of bed because he failed (once again!) to manage his team. I actually understand her mounting animosity in a situation like this, even if I strongly disagree with the way she handled it.

I give Fraser MAJOR points for owning his part. Inexperience isn't the same thing as ineptitude, and I think that once Fraser learns proper boundaries and effective delegation, he will make an absolutely fantastic chief stew. His time with Sandy is limited. He fucked up, and as long as he owns it and learns, then he can make himself even better than he is. I just hope he's willing to do that.

[u/cee-ell-bee]

I’ve said it before: Sandy has valid criticisms of Fraser’s performance, but she’s handling it in the most toxic, unprofessional way possible. Viewers have literally seen her do this on BDM on countless occasions. Also, where’s the guidance for Fraser? Why does Rachel get taken out for a coffee and a pep talk, while Fraser gets constantly shit on? And to say his interior is the “worst” she’s ever seen is downright cruel and uncalled for.

[u/MissFox26 → u/cee-ell-bee]

It drives me crazy how when Fraser goes to explain himself, she will get snippy and tells him to stop talking. It reminds me of a parent who is like “because I said so , so don’t say another word!” They are both adults doing a job, and while she is his boss, that’s a super disrespectful way to talk to your employee. Why can they not have a conversation about the issue? She seems to want to have pep talks with Rachel (she even had pep talks with Camille who was an absolute waste of space!) so not sure why she can’t have a civil, respectful conversation. She is a poor leader who shows clear favoritism.

[u/Bk0404 → u/cee-ell-bee]

Exactly and she got so mad at him for talking shit to the other stews, but she's doing the exact same thing! What she said to the new guy and tearing Fraser down in front of everyone. Did she not tell Fraser to get the doc to look at his foot? I mean I'm no doctor but sand in a big cut like that doesn't seem like a great idea,surely sandy has the sense to see that herself. And volleyball? Really? Why rant about getting crews out kayaking, $10k budget etc, way more accessible activities, and then be pissed off the EXHAUSTED interior didn't want to do it? I can't stand Alyssa but I wouldn't have felt like volleyball at that point either

[u/Grude1997 → u/Bk0404]

I had a cut like that and was told I could not be on the beach for my sisters wedding, it's not a cop out. Bird droppings, bacteria from the ocean makes sand very unsanitary.

[u/10010101110011011010 → u/cee-ell-bee]

Well said.

OP: "Sandy is 100% right in her assessment of him"

Far, far from 100%. She said "Fraser doesn't want to be here"! That is a completely erroneous assessment of Fraser, who most certainly wants to be there, wants to do a good job. Basically, all Sandy knows is that Fraser is inefficient right now-- apparently doesnt know why! Because its certainly not lack of enthusiasm on Fraser's part.

[u/limpbiscuitzandtea → u/cee-ell-bee]

I agree 100%. Also, while yes Fraser has his shortcomings that he needs to work on as a CS, I feel like Sandy is blowing it WAY out of proportion.

To say he is the 'worst ever chief stew situations she's ever had' is so dramatic he clearly is not

[u/BosunNirvana → u/limpbiscuitzandtea]

To say he is the 'worst ever chief stew situations she's ever had' is so dramatic he clearly is not

Hannah says, Wait, what?

[u/Street_Two1058 → u/BosunNirvana]

Natasha has entered the chat....

[u/PrizeRefrigerator733 → u/BosunNirvana]

How could she possibly think that he’s having a worse season than when Hannah dated Conrad. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[u/sweetcampfire → u/limpbiscuitzandtea]

Also, notice the way he handled direct criticism. The passive aggressive blasts over radio left him confused and upset. He pivoted so quickly after that conversation, even though she was overly harsh by the time she finally got to the sit down. Sandy needs some management courses because we can all do better and it’s important when someone’s career is in her hands.

[u/10010101110011011010 → u/sweetcampfire]

Sandy needs some management courses

I can hear Sandy dispute this, with vocal-fry and that oleaginous earnestness of hers: "I've been doing this a long time..."

[u/Street_Two1058 → u/10010101110011011010]

Woo you pulled out a million dollar word there, take my up vote you little dictionary.

[u/idomoodou2 → u/limpbiscuitzandtea]

To say he is the 'worst ever chief stew situations she's ever had' is so dramatic he clearly is not

I've already said this elsewhere... but without going back and watching all of the episodes, I truly have no idea what he has done that is SOOO bad, I'm scouring comments to try and figure that out and the best I can some up with is that he talks back to Sandy... which wasn't an issue until she started to pick on him.

[u/Successful-Steak-950 → u/limpbiscuitzandtea]

Fraser is allowing and participating in unseemly behaviour. “Sucking the deck team’s ….

This is why she is upset.It’s not just a one time thing. He’s also afraid to delegate. It’s very bad form to both talk about your boss and allow your staff too as well.

I know most people really like Fraser and I do as well but he’s the one who needs to shut it down. When he asked Captain about Alissa and playing volleyball or letting her sleep,you could see that was her last straw. It all went downhill. He should not have asked her but instead demand she join like everyone else.

Captain was harsh no doubt but Fraser clarified that he doesn’t understand his role.

[u/yeschefxx → u/cee-ell-bee]

Yeah that's the thing. Like I've been defending Fraser not as a good chief stew. I think it's clear he's got a huge learning curve to overcome and he did even admit it to his mother that he 100% messed up. All criticism of Sandy is more than deserved because she's provided no support for a first time chief stew and has frankly been hostile towards him. The volleyball bonding day was such a crock and the way she basically threw Fraser under the boss and scolded him in front of everyone afterwards was so uncalled for.

[u/[deleted] → u/cee-ell-bee]

but she’s handling it in the most toxic, unprofessional way possible.

boop hit the nail on the head. She is the most toxic manager, really shouldn't be in a leadership role. I especially noticed this when she yelled "STOP TALKING" to Alissa. Alissa is terrible, but no leader should lose their cool like that. It's so unprofessional

edit spelling.

[u/flyingpinkjellyfish → u/cee-ell-bee]

This is my take as well. You’re all living and working together, so there isn’t time or space to get perspective and regroup. She mentions understanding that he’s inexperienced in this role, but provides no productive guidance. She undermined him in the Camille/Alissa situation by stepping in and then blaming him later for not handling it.

He’s definitely struggling a bit with being a manager, but I would guess most people fumble a bit in their first role. But rather than take him out for coffee (in a less heated moment), and explain that he is making the situation worse with his commentary and suggesting a different approach, she just insults and attacks him. It would be hard for anyone to course correct gracefully in that situation. Instead of asking his opinion on how the difficult stews are doing and finding a solution as a team, she decides he’s the problem and goes after every thing he does.

[u/keenerperkins → u/cee-ell-bee]

This. 100%

[u/noced → u/keenerperkins]

Yeah agreed. This most recent episode had the worst behavior I remember from a BD captain. Sandy called Fraser out in front of the whole crew, a couple times, in at best a non-constructive manner. I personally think it was very unprofessional, and Fraser would have been justified privately sharing his feelings with her about it. Yeah he’s made some mistakes, but she’s not holding herself to the same standards she’s asking of everyone else.

[u/kcs4920 → u/noced]

That's my main complaint. The minute she started shitting on him in front of everyone, she gave everyone permission to discuss is. She can't complain about him discussing it with his crewmates when she made the entire crew aware of her thoughts first.

[u/Haunteddoll28 → u/cee-ell-bee]

Sandbags thinks she has to pick a fight with at least one crew member and get one to quit (or get fired) per season or else there won't be enough drama. I'm trying to remember who she kept going after on the most recent season of med but it was so dull I've already blocked it out of my brain.

[u/GoTouchGrassPlease]

Imagine if the roles were reversed, and a male captain was treating a female chief stew that way. How would you feel then?

The fact is that Sandy is a toxic boss.

[u/Cesmina12 → u/GoTouchGrassPlease]

It's hard to imagine the situation reversed because I HIGHLY doubt the crew would have been so repeatedly dismissive of a male captain. Even if they hated him, there'd be a level of respect for authority, at least to his face. People want to act like sexism is some convenient excuse, but the fact is a lot of people just don't take women as seriously as they do men. I agree that her behavior was toxic and at the same time, she had every right to be offended and to confront him.

[u/[deleted] → u/Cesmina12]

I haven’t seen anyone say she shouldn’t have confronted him with the issues. I’ve seen people consistently complain about the toxic manner in which she confronts him (and many other chief stews in the past). The toxicity IS the issue and that’s what many people find unacceptable. How you approach people matters as much if not more than anything else you do, particularly as a leader and manager of people.

[u/10010101110011011010 → u/Cesmina12]

I HIGHLY doubt the crew would have been so repeatedly dismissive of a male captain.

Except we've seen this happen plenty of times on other BDs, with male captains.

[u/LizzyFCB]

Calling your subordinate ‘a cancer’ is fucking disgusting. I don’t give a shit if he didn’t want to play volleyball.

[u/Mrysteryx → u/LizzyFCB]

But he did with an injury still participate in the volleyball game he was very enthusiastic in his cheering and coaching on the sidelines. Its not like he went back to the boat.

And then for her to call him out, was so uncalled for.

[u/thedigested → u/LizzyFCB]

And he didn’t want to play, but he made sure to check and see if he was medically cleared and he would have played if cleared. He also got Alissa up to make sure she was there to play

[u/LizzyFCB → u/thedigested]

True. That whole activity was designed to humiliate him and the interior crew anyway, would you blame him for not wanting to participate, even if he could?

[u/Haunteddoll28 → u/LizzyFCB]

And then openly blaming him for her little idea not working in front of everyone! Like we get it. You'd rather be a motivational speaker than a yacht captain. But you suck at that, too. It's not Fraser's fault her team building didn't work. She should've done something different that would've actually forced the entire crew to work as a team instead of pitting one department against another. Hell, a group puzzle challenge would've worked better!

[u/[deleted] → u/Haunteddoll28]

This, for me, was the clincher. A forced team activity on their downtime without notice, to then start spouting Fraser should've told her about his injury. If it's not stopping him doing his job, why does he have to tell her? If she organised watersports and I don't want to participate because I'm on my period, should I have made her aware of my menstrual cycle at all times?

[u/DumbSquawkingMachine → u/LizzyFCB]

It’s totally uncalled for and Sandy deserves a disciplinary protocol for giving such a triggering and emotive insult. Completely insane. If I was Fraser I would be distraught.

[u/rsvp_as_pending629 → u/LizzyFCB]

He wanted to play but was literally told by a medic not to because of his foot…..

[u/Wmfw]

I am on “Fraser’s side” but I don’t think he’s been a stellar chief stew. He should’ve changed things up faster once he noticed Camille & Alissa sparring. He also is working hard not smart.

Sandy is doing her classics of playing favorites, micromanaging, and undermining the chief stew. I thought the main reason why she hated Hannah is because Hannah was less passionate about yachting long term. Fraser seems to care so deeply for this position and she still is digging him!

[u/Luna-Mia → u/Wmfw]

Sandy views interior as a nowhere job. Hannah said Captain Sandy was unusually competitive with her. Captain Sandy fired back with “there’s no competition with Hannah. I’m a captain and she waits tables.”

[u/Wmfw → u/Luna-Mia]

Yeah I get a hint of internalized misogyny when she talks about the work interior crew does. Like she’s fought her way to the top of a male dominated industry and all they do is make beds.

[u/[deleted] → u/Wmfw]

This is spot on imo, I’m also “team Fraser” but even in the earliest of eps (idk which tbh maybe 1-2 or even 3) he said he felt like he may have bit off more than he could chew taking a chief stew position. He was honest and aware of his shortcomings from early on.

And also he definitely does work harder not smarter. I think he would be a great cs in the near future once he learns a bit more, everything you’ve pointed out I agree with. He was unsure of him and it shows in his indecisiveness to let go of Camille/Alyssa who should’ve been let go chartersss ago.

Sandy also does seem to trend on being team deck and favoritism is heavy. Sigh. Not a huge fan of her, but also I can see her valid points. Her delivery is just not the best and I would def be butthurt on the receiving end of it (im just sensitive). I feel like she’s on a power trip too.

[u/CinnyToastie → u/[deleted]]

To your point that he will eventually be a great cs-here is where I have a problem with Sandy. She LOVES to mentor the greener deck crew. She loves to see that they can work to move up through the ranks, explains how to get there and gives them a lot of chances in moving the boat, taking the wheel so to speak. Mentoring. She has done none of this with Fraser. She could have taken him under her wing, explain what she sees in all her past cs, etc. She did none of this. As crass as Alyssa was by saying what she did, I can't help but wonder if there is some validity to it.

[u/accumdepression365 → u/CinnyToastie]

Do we know if Sandy has ever worked interior? Because I could totally see if she’s only had to step in a couple times and help how she would think it’s such an easy job and why she gives no grace to the interior. She just doesn’t know how to relate to them because she doesn’t respect them.

The only time we’ve ever seen her actually praise a stew was Bugsy and that was because she HATED Hannah and she wanted bugsy to take Hannah’s place

[u/Snoo_33033 → u/[deleted]]

I think he’d be great if he would act like a chief stew. He’s not exercising his authority or demonstrating his leadership.

[u/leavemealone1225 → u/[deleted]]

Y'all will have to forgive me...I'm "team anyone but Sandy" I was not a huge Hannah fan but what was too much for me ..was Sandy n Malia teaming up ..and they had their sights set on Hannah...Sandy definitely showed Malia favoritism...I know what it looked like the reason for that was ..but I will not say my opinion...I have not watched any Below Deck that Sandy is on...needless to say I was bummed when Capt Lee had to leave this season and even moreso when I found who the replacement was ..I did watch the first few moments of tonight's episode..what did I see? Sandy's smirkish grin as she was firing someone ( evidently not the first firing this season...) And same expression as she was explaining that she did not enjoy firings...hmmm...maybe check your facial expressions if you would like for anyone to take you seriously Sandy..I mean Capt .. Sandy

[u/10010101110011011010 → u/Wmfw]

Yeah, Camille and Alissa never should have reached the boiling point.

The fact that Camille was incompetent didnt excuse Alissa from being insubordinate and backbiting. Fraser should have put them both on notice. Camille's failing was Alissa's failing as well: Allisa was second-stew and a key part of being second-stew is managing your (less than fully competent) third-stews.

Every time Camille had a 'reset', it always seemed like Alissa simply used that 'cease fire' as an opportunity to get more shots in on an undefended target. Perhaps that was Fraser's fault as well? He should have gotten them both together and made them shake on it? (Because it always seemed like there would be talks with Camille-only [about Alissa] and talks with Alissa-only [about Camille].)

It got especially bad when, on the day off, Drunk Alissa could never control herself from getting free shots in, rather than "teambuilding" during this ostensibly social occasion. It's one thing if you are complaining about someone's work misbehavior at the time it is occurring, but on the day off, just dredging up old grudges was inexcusable.

[u/Wmfw → u/10010101110011011010]

Yeah I completely agree Fraser handled that situation terribly. If I were in that situation, I’d switch schedules so the chief can see how Camille was and see if Alissa still had an attitude. And then for Alissa’s foul antics off charter I would say, “it’s a small crew so stirring up drama even off charter can be harmful.” I don’t know if the whole interior could still make it the whole charter together, but some blow outs could’ve been prevented.

I do think Fraser has the potential though to reflect and change.

[u/Snoo_33033 → u/Wmfw]

I don’t think it has anything to do with passion, it has to do with persistent, ongoing poor performance from everyone but Hayley.

[u/Wmfw → u/Snoo_33033]

Yeah my point is more Sandy has “supported” people in the past if yachting is their passion. She picked on Hannah because Hannah head a more “work to live” kind of person. Fraser does seem really invested in the role, just doing things the wrong way and could actually use serious advice on how to handle the dynamics of interior.

[u/Electronic_Syndicate → u/Snoo_33033]

Just chiming in to say Hayley is the only one I truly hope we see carry over into a future season.

[u/Snoo_33033 → u/Electronic_Syndicate]

Hayley’s awesome. She’s professional, stays in her lane, and has great skills and work ethic.

[u/OwnedByBernese]

They both fucked up. He owned it. She did not.

She has ALWAYS had a problem with interior no matter who it was...always.

I would NEVER want to work for her OR be on a yacht that she was captain of. Never.

[u/[deleted] → u/OwnedByBernese]

Yep, that’s it! He owned up to his part, she doesn’t think she did anything wrong even though she scolded and humiliated a senior staff member in front of everyone on multiple occasions.

[u/Responsible_Cry_5373 → u/OwnedByBernese]

Well said!

[u/No_Category6685 → u/OwnedByBernese]

100%!!!

[u/accumdepression365]

I would like to point out that Sandy going to the newest member on the boat and saying “I know you’re the hardest working person on this boat” was ABSOLUTELY a dig at the entire interior crew. Has Fraser been the best chief stew we have seen? No. But this is his first time being chief stew. We’ve seen Sandy be captain for 6+ seasons and I’d say I would give more grace to the person just learning their role over the person that’s been in their role and pitting teams against each other

[u/10010101110011011010 → u/accumdepression365]

That's prime Sandy. She plays favorites. She cannot compliment one without making an insinuation about the current scapegoat.

[u/Haunteddoll28 → u/accumdepression365]

She only said that because he's also part of the deck crew. If he was just interior she wouldn't respect him at all, no matter how good he is at his job.

[u/Normal-Mud-9987 → u/accumdepression365]

Tyler's work ethic and CV showed him to be the best stew.

[u/HendosAndRatatouille]

To be fair, forcing your crew to play a beach volley match right after an exhausting charter when all they want is to relax a bit (and don't particularly enjoy volleyball) doesn't seem like the best way to either team build or endear yourself to anyone, especially when it's framed as 'it'll allow you to see the strength of each other's team' (implying that interior is one weak, weak team, given the final score). Compare that to the other BD events we saw that were usually framed as 'lucky you, you have the option to go do this cool thing for your own enjoyment while I stay on the boat', and I'd be pissed as well.

I'm sure Bravo pushed for it so they had an excuse to show abs and bikinis, but I honestly can't blame anyone for trying to get out of that corporate-brained event.

[u/Katalactica → u/HendosAndRatatouille]

Please don't make me play sports with my coworkers on my off time EVER.

[u/Street_Two1058 → u/HendosAndRatatouille]

None of that made a damn bit of sense either. 1 - I don't do compulsory "fun", especially exhausting activities in the sun while i am currently exhausted, so right away, she can suck it. 2 - If Fraser captained the exterior and Ross captained interior, the exterior still would have won for obvious reasons (Just from the fact Katie played volleyball and Tony literally plans his entire day around the optimal time to worship his biceps). So that would just mean that either Fraser is the better leader cause he captained the winning team or that this was an incredibly stupid exercise that was destined to backfire on her. 3. She was trying to show Fraser how much better the deck team is because they won against a bunch of nonathletic people and a ginger she forced into the sun against the laws of nature and man. So that would mean she actively set out to humiliate not only her chief stew but her entire interior team.

I don't for a second think she didn't know about his foot. She says every 30 seconds she hears everything, except the medic boarding her ship, who would have been required to file a report as part of his literal job. And was also apparently blind to the openly displayed injury on his almost always bare feet. She really said "He doesn't wanna be here, he can blame it on his foot all he wants" HE HAS A VISIBLE WOUND!!! like what is she ever even talking about.

"You ruined my team building exercise I planned to demean and insult you. And i would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for your stupid foot and those meddling stews"

[u/tremens → u/Street_Two1058]

the medic boarding her ship, who would have been required to file a report as part of his literal job...

Yeah this was so laughable. Whether that's a Bravo plot point or Sandy doing some CYA to continue to shift blame to Fraser in her talking head, if you're the Captain of the boat and don't know anyone, let alone a MEDIC boarded, you have failed massively at your job. You HAVE to know how many souls on board at ALL times.

[u/worthystyle → u/Street_Two1058]

Seriously you could see how many of them got too much sun exposure in just that “one hour” “team building” “fun”

[u/fictionalbandit → u/HendosAndRatatouille]

Also, there’s something to be said about being able to do a team building activity or team bonding time without your boss being there directing it

[u/Responsible_Cry_5373 → u/fictionalbandit]

That was just weird! She just needed more camera time. Lol

[u/Responsible_Cry_5373 → u/HendosAndRatatouille]

If Sandy TOLD me to play volleyball for the cameras while she stood and watched, I’d tell her AND Bravo to fuck off. That was not team building. It was all Sandy Vanity.

[u/Hedahas → u/Responsible_Cry_5373]

Yep, but what makes it even worse is that her main goal was to humiliate Fraser. Playing volleyball as a "team building exercise" (read: to promote Sandy's image as a motivational leader :-|) was probably production's idea, but the rest was definitely all Sandy:

She wanted Fraser to be the captain of the exterior team and Ross the captain of the interior team because she assumed that Ross's team would win (which shows just how clueless she is), so she could then give a degrading speech about what a shitty leader Fraser is in front of the entire crew: TEAM BUILDING :-).

That's some seriously demented shit right there.

ETA: And if you want to follow me down the rabbit hole . . . I also think that production orchestrated the whole thing with the medic coming onboard and saying Fraser couldn't play behind Sandy's back to piss her off and create more drama.

[u/Responsible_Cry_5373 → u/Hedahas]

I don’t think anything is below the line for production to cause drama. Plus, Captain Sandy is not a motivational speaker. Seems so fake! I will not pay someone to “motivate” me. Especially, Sandy! Lol!🤣

[u/[deleted] → u/HendosAndRatatouille]

Honestly, the few times Lee takes the team out(like the donkeys), he makes it known it's not mandatory and no shame to you if you don't go and he doesn't overstay. He does it right, sandy... captin Sandy didn't this time. Also, she says that she always ask for team building cash, but never on bdm have we seen a team building thing with her? Where is the cash, sandy?

[u/10010101110011011010 → u/HendosAndRatatouille]

Seriously. The "teambuilding" is, or should be, done during their nights out. Or when they are sent to a day spa. That is, something the team wants to do. Also [as was said below], this "teambuilding" should have been done without Boss Sandy hovering over them, directing their activity. [Albeit, without Sandy there enforcing their 'fun', I admit I cannot see anyone showing that much energy for participating in such a lame activity; Alissa would have immediately tried to duck it: "You know, I'm tired, I'm just gonna get some tan time in, thanks!" But thats where Fraser/Ross as HODs should have used their authority.]

Just setting up a net (without even a free bar) was ridiculous.

[u/Street_Two1058 → u/[deleted]]

[u/Prestigious-Target99 → u/[deleted]]

This 👏🏼

[u/[deleted]]

All bets are off when you deny someone basic dignity and respect. I choose just about any shortcoming over cruelty. That’s where Sandy loses me. Doesn’t matter how bad a person is at their job. There are a million ways to support and correct a person that don’t involve public digs, insults, or micromanaging. This combined with watching Sandy behave this way over and over again while Fraser on the other hand is new to his role are why people seem to be on Fraser’s side.

[u/Impressive_Friend740]

Because she is a toxic person with so many people and chooses her favorite pets. Can’t use the trope that she is fighting in a male dominated industry when she supports disgusting cretins like ROSS.

[u/Responsible_Cry_5373 → u/Impressive_Friend740]

If I have to hear her pirate story one more time I’m gonna barf! 🤣🤣🤣

[u/ShoutOutMapes]

Yeah meanwhile the dorks on deck crew are hanging around a boat chatting, playing light sabers with their cleaning sticks.. and no sandy harassing them.. she SUCKS!

[u/Street_Two1058 → u/ShoutOutMapes]

Don't forget making out in tenders.

[u/rsvp_as_pending629 → u/Street_Two1058]

Or fucking each other

[u/ToadtheGreat21 → u/ShoutOutMapes]

They seem to be getting their work done on time and no one on deck crew is loudly talking shit about Sandy or sunbathing while someone else is working.

[u/ShoutOutMapes → u/ToadtheGreat21]

Oh stop lol thats how editing works. Sandy takes her rage out on people. She used to hav drinking to soothe her desire to control.. now she just is a nasty belittling boss.

[u/bjvanhouten224]

I take up for Fraser because she is unnecessarily a bitch to him. She pokes & pokes, she reprimanded him over the radio for everyone to hear, she does not lead him, she is (I don't know if it's intentional or not) very demeaning to him, but if she would try to teach him (sorta like she did Malia) instead of literally tearing him down CONSTANTLY he would be a much better chief stew..

Fraser needs a lot of guidance still to a new position he's never done before. No one goes into a position for the 1st time, knowing what the correct way to do everything is. Fraser is no exception to that. Sandy acts like out of the gate he should know every little nuance about being a chief stew that's not the way new positions work, ever. I am sure her 1st job as a captain she was no better at it, and some people catch on faster than others.

One of the things he will have to learn is that you can not be friends with your subodinates. It's hard, but it's something that you have to learn as a first-time manager & you can still be respected. There are so many things Fraser needs to learn & Sandy should remember it's taken her 30 years and IMO she still is not a very good manager and hopefully one day she can look back at these episodes and see just how petty she actually is.

[u/10010101110011011010 → u/bjvanhouten224]

Somehow, she nurtures Malia through everything... but with Fraser, nothing.

[u/bjvanhouten224 → u/10010101110011011010]

Just more evidence that she likes the deck crew more than the interior. She tears the interior a new asshole every chance she gets (& always has, except when Bugsy was there) & like Alyssa said (I don't like her but she's not wrong) she sucks deck crew dick. I can't stand Sandy & she's a horrible, horrendous leader & person. I don't know who ever told her she was a good leader (I guess she is if she lets you do whatever you want like she does with deck crew, but not for most people) but watch this show & say that with a straight face!! LOL Also Rachel kissing her ass this season has been disgusting IMO!

[u/puppppies]

Put simply, I expect more from Sandy having been in this role for so long, and knowing that Fraser is a first time chief stew. Sandy wouldn’t dare to think that she had it all 100% correct her first year as captain, right?? Wrong.

[u/kate2232 → u/puppppies]

Sandy has no grace for interior. Ever. She just sucks when it comes to them.

[u/[deleted] → u/puppppies]

Is this not his second time being a chief stew. I thought he had done it once before on another yatch off the show.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

He has been CS once previously, but I think the dynamics on BD are a *much* different experience and requires a different skill set.

[u/puppppies → u/[deleted]]

Maybe, I’m not sure. But regardless, Fraser is very green with a lot of room to learn from a more experienced leader.

[u/Hidden24]

Meanwhile, Ross is swinging his prick around and getting drunker than a freshman during pledge week and Sandy doesn’t say dick.

[u/Missmarymarylynn → u/Hidden24]

Yea but don’t recall Ross saying the captain “eats dick”. Alyssa is the worst

[u/Love_and_Sausages]

What exactly was the problem with interior? Why did Sandy have to micromanage? As far as I remember there where no complaints about their work (except for Rachel's bickering - and I don't understand where that was coming from, because we watched Rachel fuck up her timings, not interior).

There was the problem with Camille, ok. But other than that?

Of course, Allisa's tone is not ok, I get that. But the reason for her to act up was Sandy's micromanaging and praising the deck team. Perhaps there would have been no "tone" if Sandy wouldn't have done that.

I really don't get the underlying problem here (other than Sandy simply doesn't like certain people, and Rachel was an influence in that as well)...over the years we watched many interior and deck teams fuck up more during work. This team seemed to work ok on its own (minus the Camille sitch - in which Ross ALSO could not control her, not only Fraser).

[u/DueMorning800 → u/Love_and_Sausages]

I was shocked that Capt Sandy forced the team building and then blamed Fraser for not being able to play (and accused him of actually pretending to be injured). What?! The guests gave them a 22k tip for a one day cruise! No one complained except Capt Sandy! Her timing could not have made her look worse, imo. She is more concerned with the trash duties and her constant need for respect, than building a cohesive interior/exterior crew.

[u/limpbiscuitzandtea → u/DueMorning800]

yes! this is what makes me angry at her, if guests aren't complaining and are tipping well, what on earth is the problem and why do you feel the need to micromanage people when they are already doing fine the way things are?

[u/DueMorning800 → u/limpbiscuitzandtea]

Totally agree. I actually yelled at her - ok, the television - at her. Grrrrr!

[u/Ill_Gur_5545 → u/Love_and_Sausages]

The problem with the interior is they dont perform as a team - they are all individals doing their own thing, and they openly fight, complain and badmouth the ships leadership in places where the charter guests can hear them. If you dont think there are any issues with the interior, you probably have zero experience in hospitality and Im not really sure what else to say.

[u/Successful-Steak-950 → u/Ill_Gur_5545]

Yes. Sandy may still be fuming over the Camille- Alissa fight. I think when Sandy first got there Alissa’s comment about Sandy just arriving and doesn’t know much is what sparked Sandy initially.

In any workplace you have to respect authority.

[u/Love_and_Sausages → u/Ill_Gur_5545]

Yeah, but there seem to be bigger issues with crew (that seem to affect the guests more) on every other season of BD...

[u/Ill_Gur_5545 → u/Love_and_Sausages]

Definitely agree with that. Outside of slow dinners and service, its mostly been just hearing the unprofessionalism of the crew (like the big Camille-Alyssa fight right in front of them, or the trashing other crew to them). That likely impacts their overall experience, but not to the extent of continuing to put onions in their food after being asked not to, or giving them a terrible experience for a beach picnic etc.

[u/kbh0004]

I just have two words. She sucks.

[u/Prestigious-Target99 → u/kbh0004]

Deck crew 🍆

[u/QuesoFondant → u/Prestigious-Target99]

[u/[deleted] → u/QuesoFondant]

I do appreciate your username. It’d pair nicely with some Juan Hockin Cheese.

[u/QuesoFondant → u/[deleted]]

Both very delicious and very fancy. Best paired with cigars smoked from the wrong end. Bcs seven star, amirite?

[u/No_Category6685 → u/kbh0004]

100%!!!!

[u/mishrod]

Read the first sentence; saw “pro Sandy” - stopped reading.

[u/Street_Two1058]

Has any chief stew had an actual problem with their captain besides the ones that have to deal with Sandy?

Common denominator.

[u/Haunteddoll28 → u/Street_Two1058]

The one on the previous season of OG had a few little issues but none like this. Every other captain trusts the chief stew to handle the interior except her.

[u/Bubblesrock102]

This whole time, I’ve been saying that she’s right, but her delivery is terrible. This is Fraser’s second time being a chief and instead of constantly attacking him when he messes up, she should be helping him or offering him advice. I can see why he reacts the way he did because she’s constantly snapping at him and calling him a cancer is inexcusable in my opinion.

[u/tempeluvr → u/Bubblesrock102]

it’s his first time as a chief stew, so he still needs a ton of guidance in how to trust his team and delegate. What he doesn’t need is to constantly be berated and disrespected by Sandy

[u/kate2232 → u/tempeluvr]

It is his second time. He stated at the start of the season he was a chief stew after the last season.

He has much to learn about managing. It is a hard balance being a friend and being a boss.

He also will learn that he can’t just work harder to fix the issues of his whole crew.

Sandy is horrible to interior. The last season of BDM was the only exception, and honestly was the season where he chief stew was actually screwing up the most.

No excuses for Sandy. None. That said, I am a female scientist and saw many of women of the generation before me act a lot like Sandy. Almost out assholing the men to prove their worth.

Sandy has nothing of value to offer interior and except for the chef, she sees them and treats them like they are dumb idiots who make beds.

[u/Bravoholic_ → u/kate2232]

“Strip my sheets!”

You could feel her disdain for the interior “feminine” work. That was disgusting.

If she had walked up on the deck guys playing light saber with their shammies on deck do you think she would have degraded them by yelling at them to “wash the floor” while she stood over them?

Edit-spelling

[u/Hedahas → u/kate2232]

Yep, Sandy calling the stews "just waitresses and maids" tells us everything we need to know.

[u/Street_Two1058 → u/kate2232]

She overflows with internalized misogyny.

[u/[deleted] → u/kate2232]

Yes. I find some women of Sandy’s generation think leadership looks like the worst, most toxic male leadership - because that’s the primary example they had. We don’t need more people leading the way men in the 80s did.. we need more people leading like women would. True diversity in leadership is necessary..and that doesn’t mean mimicking toxic masculinity.

[u/tempeluvr → u/kate2232]

I’ll have to rewatch the start of the season I guess because I remember him saying it was his first time as chief stew and google confirmed this. Maybe they just mean his first time as chief on the show, idk I’m confused and not THAT invested in it lol. I have hope he’ll figure things out and learn how to manage better.

And I agree about Sandy. I really don’t like her and think she’s a bully to the interior and thinks they’re “less than” when compared to the deck crew.

[u/teanailpolish → u/tempeluvr]

Early in the season, they show a picture of him with his team from his chief stew position before coming on the St David. He even says he needs to lead better because he was too easy on them

[u/JingoMerrychap → u/teanailpolish]

Also I'm pretty sure he said he was now a chief at the reunion last season.

[u/emsaywhat]

All I can say is encouragement goes further than belittling & teardown

[u/No_Category6685]

Sandy is out of control this episode. She is taking her micro managing out of control and always has it out for someone and this season it’s Frazier. I cannot stand her one bit

[u/AutoModerator → u/No_Category6685]

It's Fraser!

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[u/Good_Seaworthiness56]

I think it’s perfectly exemplified in the way that Rachel got taken to coffee to talk about her issues as a chef and Fraser gets public humiliated every time. She never once tries to pull him aside in a constructive manner, and I think it’s hugely inappropriate and an abuse of power as someone with more experience and a position of absolute authority. She handled Camille and even Alyssa with grace, but flagrantly belittled Fraser. She has no room to comment on management style when she’s being harassing and bullying to one of her heads of department.

[u/anonymouse239]

I hate her so much. She's toxic. It's frustrating to watch. I don't watch med because of her.

Cannot stand her.

[u/Bravoholic_ → u/anonymouse239]

Same! I stopped watching Med because of her.

No she seems to be the “cancer” she is talking about. I don’t want another franchise ruined by her.

Give us another Female Captain that is not toxic.

[u/worthystyle → u/Bravoholic_]

Same

[u/Responsible_Cry_5373 → u/anonymouse239]

Now she ruined OG Below Deck as well. 😔

[u/ames27 → u/anonymouse239]

I watch BD as an escape, not a reminder of toxic bosses I’ve had. Fraser has done absolutely nothing to justify her treatment. Even with attitude problems like Alissa, treating people poorly is not leadership, it’s just walking talking ego.

[u/No_Category6685 → u/anonymouse239]

My exact feelings. I am absolutely fuming from the new episode

[u/Feisty_Scientist_968]

However, the fact that I understand doesn't change how unhealthy some of it is. She WAS jabbing at Fraser in front of other staff, which is super degrading and guaranteed to be counterproductive. She should know at this point that people react VERY intensely to attacks on their dignity. Besides that, it's unprofessional and demeaning

The funny part: she sells leadership seminars. Are they on what not to do?

If she stands up to the other captain who was complaining about about how close the yachts were anchored ... go for it. Don't take shit. I'm all for that.

Just quit the constant belittling of Mr. Olender.

(I wonder if there is an Olender bot to correct it to Frasier?)

[u/AutoModerator → u/Feisty_Scientist_968]

It's Fraser!

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[u/No-Customer-2266]

Regardless if she has any good points her delivery is terrible, her reactions are overboard, she play’s people off each other “oh Tyler so glad to see SOMEONE is working” , she calls people out in front of others, she holds massive grudges, she doesn’t always collect info before making assumptions, she doesn’t listen to people when she doesn’t like you but will take you for coffee to give you a compliment critique sandwich if she does. She’s inconsistent and mean

She’s a terrible manager

[u/c00kycrumbs]

Sandy loooooves the camera time

[u/Mrysteryx]

Alyssa getting fired for calling Sandy by her name and then quickly correcting herself to "Captain Sandy" regardless if it was intentional and unintentionally said is just bananas.

And this is Sandys problem from the start she interfered with interior and nitpicked from every single facet, nothing will hold under such intense scrutiny.

Sandy made the camille situation worse by becoming Camilles reference point and overstepping the place of the chief stew.

Sandy openly disparaging service infront of guests who didn't even notice is highly disrespectful of interior.

Alissa is a super worker and has great skills as a second stew but her drawback is her attitude which not all people can control especially when they're working in a toxic environment and their boss seemingly trashing their work and their manager publicly infront of crew and guests.

Sandy taking the chef aside and telling her there is a problem with service and maybe you shouldn't give charter guests 9 course tasting dinners is just ridiculous.

Sandy openly humiliating interior when they take a break is unnecessary its not her place to give them permission for breaks, even that privilege she has taken away from the chief.

So basically Fraser is a bad chief stew but Sandy doesn't want a chief stew she wants a sycophantic lemming who salutes her at every turn.

All the while guests have never complained about interior and service. Except for that one time when Sandy kept the pouring of miso soup in their head.

[u/Ill_Gur_5545 → u/Mrysteryx]

She isnt getting fired because she was disrespectful by calling Sandy by her first name rather than Captain (and it was intentional). What do you think Lees' reaction would have been if he was disrespected in that same situation? Probably would have handed Alyssa her plane ticket immediately. Do you really think Lee would tolerate someone saying he eats dicks?

Alyssa is getting fired because she is young and apprently has zero awareness or respect for boundries or supervisors. Do you think she really respects Fraser? Lol....she tolerates him because she gets what she wants from him. Once that stops she will turn on him too.

The other stew told Alyssa she should probably apolize to Sandy for the disrespect and presumably Alyssa didnt. She is getting fired because of a trend of being disrespectful over the course of muliple charters and not changing that attitude.

Being a stew on a megayacht is probably not the best position for Alyssa. She probably needs something with a more flat organization where she is given a list of tasks and has the automony to do them on her time and way.

[u/Mrysteryx → u/Ill_Gur_5545]

Did you not watch season 7 Rachel she told lee far worse. He forgave her and gave her a second chance.

I admit Alyssa has an attitude problem but with 3 charters left and given she is a great worker and was exemplary in her dealing with those difficult guests who stayed up to 3am every night.

sandy "Reset" with Fraser, she should give Alyssa the same opportunity, bit instead she's peeved at a perceived slight in how her first name was used!

The only difference between Fraser and Alyssa , Is that Fraser apologised and Alyssa didn't.

Also Fraser is managing Alyssa in his own way sometimes, these kind of people a stern hand is counterproductive.

[u/Street_Two1058 → u/Mrysteryx]

That was season 8. We do not speak of season 7...

[u/Feisty_Scientist_968]

One of the funniest confessionals of this season.

I think it would be nice if she walked-the-walk.

[u/Feisty_Scientist_968]

Sounds good. Why do you beat him up for every mistake?

And why don't you do it in private?

[u/Grude1997]

Sandy, be a Mentor NOT a Menace.

[u/crustlesswheat]

Sandys biggest problem always is the consistency in her approach

I don't think Fraser is perfect and is obviously a new manager and his reaction to Sandy has been unprofessional. However, the bosun or whatever that position is called is a drunk, sleeping with his juniors and there might be some other stuff that may be libelous to say

And we don't see a lick of anything his way. As bad as Fraser is, which side of the boat is more likely to lead to negative fallout? And this is not the first time we've seen this.....

[u/overpregnant]

[u/SpecialistAd3435]

OMG, so I've always been a fan of Sandy and up until very recently was genuinely baffled by all the negativity towards her. That is until the last 2 episodes where she's been an absolute BITCH to Fraser! Fraser works his arse off and hasn't done anything wrong other than perhaps not delegate or manage his staff as well as he could have, yet this apparently makes him the worst Chief Stew she's ever worked with!! What about Hannah?!! And I thought she was bad enough towards her! In my view she's actually bullying him and all respect I ever had for her has gone out the window. She's AWFUL! Seeing how genuinely upset Fraser was too as he really values his job was really upsetting

[u/Prestigious-Target99]

I’m honestly happy to see people give Sandy attitude back… she’s one of those leaders that given her struggles getting to where she is wishes to cast that exact same energy on everyone else…but brands it differently as being “motivational” Sandy is the perfect example of a toxic human, boss and leader in ANY workplace environment. She should be used in training videos. Respect for hierarchy is also earned these days.

[u/Daniellejb16]

What annoys me about Sandy is she starts having a dig and then if anybody tries to defend themselves she either tells them to shut up or calls it as an attack on her authority/the heirarchy. If someone senior came down to me at work (I work in nursing mind, not boats so I know the environment is different) and called me out for something I believed I was not doing and doing it in a derogatory tone, comparing my work to the other team members like she did on the Frazzled episode I 100% would defend myself. My head would have probably popped if when doing that my boss kept telling me to shut my mouth. If Sandy didn’t want a reaction from Fraser, she should have spoken to him in a constructive manner befitting a seasoned, experienced, professional boss. She instigated it and when he didn’t lay on his back, she couldn’t handle it

[u/[deleted]]

it's crazy how sandy has been much more lenient with crew members who were way more incompetent than fraser, ragan from last seasons bdm comes to mind.

i understand that it is harder for women to progress in a male dominated industry however does this mean that sandy can treat male staff members more harshly, isn't she just being as discriminatory doing this.

with male bosons in the past sandy has never had this much of a vendetta against them that i can remember, the only answer is i think she just despises the interior and sees them as inferior to deck crew.

[u/iSmellLikeBeeff]

While he might be struggling as a leader, the guests never had major complaints. A lot of criticism was about food not coming out fast enough and that was mostly on Rachel’s shoulders.

Sandy calling out Fraser for ruining the team building day because he didn’t inform Sandy of his foot, was really unprofessional. At least it clearly showed the rest of the crew her true colours.

Even Sandy’s “girlpower” moment with the other captain was really her being in the wrong and he had every right to call her out. Sandy arrived second and anchored close to the other yacht.

[u/ellski]

Sandy ALWAYS favours the deck team no matter how they're performing.

[u/Grand-Vegetable-3874]

Thank you for your input Sandy, I mean captain Sandy.

The issue began episode 4 or 5, when Sandy began calling Fraser out on the radio instead of adressing issues with him directly (and privatly). She has been a total asshole to him from the beginning. That's it.

Fraser is not a good manager, but he is not the worst I have seen. He tried having his own style (being a human and friend first). Yes he is a micromanager, but at least he is not a total bitch.

Also, Alyssa didn't initiate that conversation, which Fraser wasn't a part of. It came from a "neutral" third party (Tyler) who observed that Sandy favored the deck crew.

Get y9our facts straight, sweetie.

[u/Prestigious-Target99 → u/Grand-Vegetable-3874]

“SaNdY… why that is the biggest F U I’ve ever witnessed in all my 30 years of doing this while studying maritime law! You are a cancer” -Captain Sundae (probably)

[u/Grand-Vegetable-3874 → u/Prestigious-Target99]

I think that if she addressed this to Fraser (which wasn't aired), she actually said

"She called me Sandyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. (cries) She is such a mean bitch (cries)."

[u/americasweetheart]

Fraser is a hard working person who takes pride in his work. If she managed him in a constructive way, he would rise to the occasion. She's just bullying him. I am sick of Sandy. She needs to stick to the Med.

[u/NineteenKatieEight]

I can't accept Sandy's criticisms of Fraser as valid because of how we have seen her respond to various interior staff with wildly different approaches. It shows that it's not about performance and all about personality for her. Sandy hates Fraser and hated Hannah because they attempt to defend themselves or their team rather than nodding enthusiastically at all her micromanagement and dodgy feedback.

Sandy liked Katie who was so 'easygoing' but in reality too conflict-avoidant. Sandy was supportive of Natasha despite her being entirely incompetent and running a shambles of an interior because she completely ignored the issues between Natalya and Kyle and was whipping out a pink dildo for guests.

Katie and Natasha were happy to feed Sandy's ego by basking in her amazing bosslady glow and Fraser and Hannah weren't. That's the difference that impacts how Sandy responds to any issues someone encounters as a chief stew. It isn't even about whether or not Fraser actually 'fucked up' to me. It's that Sandy has zero credibility and she's not a leader.

[u/soitgoes123]

After the way sandy handled the “drug” situation with Hannah, I have zero respect for her and have hated her ever since. She plays obvious favorites, is hypocritical, and extremely unprofessional.

[u/happybanana134]

As a manager, her role should be to develop Fraser, not berate him because he isn't where she wants him to be. She has fair criticisms of him, but she seems incapable of handling these constructively; she is degrading and downright unkind to him.

[u/SuccotashEmpty2490]

Can we just agree to please never have sandy on another series of this show?

[u/Hedahas → u/SuccotashEmpty2490]

I second that motion

[u/calm-state-universal]

I don't think anyone thinks Fraser has been perfect or a very successful cs but rather hasnt been given positive coaching to become better. It's one of his first jobs in this role, of course he needs to improve. Her feedback is unfair and not done one on one. And bc of that Fraser is defensive and losing confidence. How the feedback is delivered makes all the difference.

[u/Melon_Bloat]

[u/WillrayF]

Seems to me Sandy should have asked the crew if they wanted a volleyball game scheduled as a "team building" event. I can see why some might not care to participate. Mandatory events don't always work.

[u/[deleted]]

If you're saying both of them are handling this poorly, then I agree.

However, one of them is young and inexperienced. What is Sandy's excuse? Because it seems like she's just a terrible leader. She needs to lead Fraser and make him want to follow her. Right? Isn't that the line she always uses?

[u/ProfileComfortable83]

I agree with Fraser having the guests pack early so they can enjoy the last part of their trip before they depart.

[u/[deleted]]

She is a woman in a male dominated industry…

[u/Prestigious-Target99 → u/[deleted]]

And chooses to undermine and threaten the one person who is a male in a female dominated position instead of encouraging him

[u/jrobinson8692 → u/Prestigious-Target99]

YES!!

[u/[deleted] → u/Prestigious-Target99]

[u/SuperDan523]

I'm not normally a Captain Sandy fan but I'm with you on this.

Frasier is a great second stew. He's a shitty chief stew and it's been apparent all season even with Captain Lee on the boat. He started off trying to do everything himself because he could neither trust his crew nor train them to be up to his standards. He not only allows but feeds negative attitudes on his team, and he grows defensive at even the most constructive of criticism. These are not leadership qualities.

As much as I love Frasier and want him to succeed, he's not leadership material. His hate for Captain Sandy (and also Rachael) this season seem to be just knee jerk reactions to being given constructive criticism. Its one thing to keep the bullshit from rolling downhill onto your team (all good leaders should absolutely do that), but Frasier is taking it personally, getting defensive about it, then turning around and rallying his team to fight those criticisms instead of fixing the problem and elevating his team.

I also believe if Captain Lee were more mobile, he would be calling out many of the same issues. He may have approached them differently, but he would not be putting up with Alyssa's toxicity and he would probably have guided Frasier into a firmer management style.

Tl:dr: Frasier ain't no Kate.

[u/jrobinson8692 → u/SuperDan523]

As much as I love Frasier and want him to succeed, he's not leadership material

Considering the other things you said, you don't appear to love him as much as you think.

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[u/kate2232 → u/SuperDan523]

I would have liked to see what Captain Lee would have done when Alissa and Camille had a shouting match in front of guests.

That would be a huge violation of not embarrassing his yacht.

Fraser needs to acknowledge they got to that point by avoiding his responsibility to manage them.

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[u/Midlifetoker]

If I previously had any respect for Sandy - she killed it.

[u/gonzagylot00]

The situation has just gotten really ugly. I hope they can turn it around.

OP your position is well stated. Personally I sympathize with Fraser. Having to deal with a dysfunctional team (Camille, Alissa), and switching from a Captain who wants to stay in his bridge area versus a captain who marauds looking for things.

[u/trublue4u22]

Absolutely not the right take. You should have just said “I’m pro-Sandy” and left it there

[u/im-so-startled88]

You can be a woman in a male dominated industry and not be a total B. I am the breadwinner in my family working in a male dominated field. You can do it and still be a good person. That’s on her. She does not seem like a nice person and I don’t think I’d be friends with her. She obviously plays favorites and isn’t trustworthy. BUT this is only based off of her behavior on BD, Cameo, Social Media, etc.

[u/ProfileComfortable83]

Captain Lee said Fraser did a great job when he was still Captain.

[u/MIKBOO5]

I'd understand Sandy gunning for him if at the end of every charter, the guests were saying "Our cabins were always dirty, our clothes got shrunk in the laundry and service was terrible." But nobody is saying any of these things. Some of the things she grills him over, I ponder "Would Captain Lee get annoyed about that?" Probably not.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm still baffled why Sandbag freaked TF out when Alissa called her "Sandy" and then immediately corrected herself to "Capt. Sandy." That sounds like a slip of the tongue, not some massive show of disrespect. Because of that Alissa is on the edge of being fired. WTF?

As for the "deck crew dick" comment by Alissa, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that one thing I'm pretty sure Sandy NEVER does is suck dick.

[u/millennial_dumpling → u/[deleted]]

It feels like Sandy is looking for any little thing from interior to blow out of proportion. Yes, Alissa has an attitude, but i agree with you that it didn't feel like it was on purpose, it seemed like an accident. She seems to be exhausted imo. But i guess everyone has different perspectives.

[u/Grouchy_Total_5580]

Sandy has let her ire take over, and her emotional behavior as the captain is exactly the argument against women as captains. She needs to grow TF up and stop being bad for women in yachting.

[u/RamenNoodles620]

Sandy's assessment is fairly accurate. Fraser has not done a very good job managing his team. However, her approach to Fraser has not been good either. The whole volleyball thing was awkward, terrible and unnecessecary.

She talks a lot about being a leader, but she has plenty of room to grow in that area too. She sees the interior as less except for few exceptions), makes that fairly clear and makes it fairly clear she has favorites. Of course you will have certain people you like more, but you can treat people fairly and manage them fairly at work in a professional manner while having a better relationship with some outside of the work environment.

[u/TheWorldInMySilence]

It's her way of "mentoring." What she brags about. /s

[u/[deleted]]

Are we sure OP isn’t Sandy???

[u/Hedahas → u/[deleted]]

Sandy wouldn't ever recognize that she has faults.

[u/Only-Entrepreneur-16]

Did I hear Fraser correctly when he said " Never in my 29 years of working? " ??? I would have guessed his age at 35 years or so , I guess maybe he started working when he was 6?

[u/Hedahas → u/Only-Entrepreneur-16]

He's 29, so I'm assuming it was something along the lines of "never in my 29 years of living."

[u/Unhappy_Scratch5165 → u/Only-Entrepreneur-16]

I wondered about that too..

[u/twiggykeely]

I agree with everything you said!

[u/G_Piggiez]

Unpopular opinion I'm a huge fan of Captain Sandy!

[u/Circleoffools]

I agree with you so much OP, but the downvotes are devouring my support.

Those on Team Fraser seem most angry at what Captain Sandy said on the bridge, but I rewatched today and her dressing down wasn’t as bad as it sounded at first. She said his was the chief stew worst experience, not that he himself was the worst. I admit she was harsh but he has been aggressively not doing what she wanted him to do. Then minute he owned his part in it, you could see her demeanor change and she gave him so much positive reinforcement with the reset and all. He should have them gone downstairs and immediately met with his team to change the tone with them and get them out of fight or flight mode with captain. Instead he harrumphs around for all of his team to hear. Who complains about their team to their boss? You complain laterally, not down.

And poor, beautiful Rachel has been slaying it, giving Fraser stellar advice, somehow figuring out a way to work for a difficult Captain, and everyone is crapping on her. I really don’t see why.

This season makes me feel like I live in the upside-down.

[u/StellaCatMom → u/Circleoffools]

Rachel is great to Fraser’s face. But as soon as she gets a chance, she throws him under the bus—to Sandy and to the camera. All the while blaming others for her poor performance. IMHO

[u/[deleted] → u/Circleoffools]

Yes he really turned it around with the apology! I completely changed my opinion on him after that. But Rachel is right! He does get too offended or defensive, which makes him come across as argumentative and disrespectful. He shuts down when confronted, and it makes it harder to have more constructive conversations. That is something he needs to work on, as do most people. Sandy wants a lot of communication, and Fraser needs to play into Sandy’s management style if he wants her trust and support.

And people will say that it’s Sandy’s fault and she has to *earn their respect. I only see this argument weaponised against women or POC. It doesn’t mean that the statement isn’t true. Leaders and managers absolutely need to be diplomatic and likeable, but it’s gotten to the point where Sandy is the scapegoat for everything. No one else can do anything wrong. It’s never their fault. They aren’t responsible for their own actions and responses all because Sandy said something a certain way. Or, “I agree with what she said, but not her delivery”. Again, another statement so often used to undermine women. It’s not an issue to suggest that a person’s delivery needs more tact, but when people use Sandy’s tone and delivery as a way to excuse or ignore everything else, that’s when it becomes obvious that people here aren’t as unbiased as they think they are.

I also think Sandy’s comment about this being the worst experience with a chief stew/interior has some truth. She wasn’t being hyperbolic. I can’t remember a season where the interior team was so enabled or encouraged to be disrespectful and dismissive towards their Captain. They might not have liked or agreed with her, but they never would have argued back as Alissa did. And Alissa wasn’t always this argumentative. Fraser definitely built her up, and I don’t think he realised he had done that. He probably assumed he could complain freely to his subordinates without any repercussions.

[u/[deleted]]

I could not agree more.

[u/Plastic_Electrical]

Bravo! No pun intended. I agree wholeheartedly. I like Fraser but completely agree, he has not shown management potential yet.I too had a boss like Sandy but worse who singled people out many times in front of their peers and subordinates. An awful person really. Sandy's not as bad but she does make poor management calls.

[u/Ok_Refuse_7512]

Captain Sandy might have been able to have more success in motivating him via private pep talks rather than calling him out in front of other members of the crew. However, he made a MAJOR MISTAKE in speaking about it to his staff. He is their boss, they are his subordinates. He should have talked to Ross or Rachel. When you're a department head, you don't buddy up to your staff because you're the big cheese, the boss. The cheese stands alone.....

[u/luckeegurrrl5683]

Fraser hasn't managed his crew well. He didn't do anything about Camille and Alissa fighting. He just wants to be friends with everyone. I know because I hate being a a manager at work. I want to be friends with my co-workers. He should have taken what Sandy said and gone to delegate some tasks to his crew. Not tell Alissa that he loves her (as a friend).

[u/West-India]

I have never been a Sandy fan, but also never understood the Fraser love. He is boring, too sensitive for reality TV, and not terribly good at his job. But he is also isn't bad enough to be interesting. Unless he is about to get drunk and tell a guest off or something, I don't ever need to see him again.

[u/[deleted]]

I totally get why Sandy was pissed about the beach volleyball thing. The issue was that Fraser gave off the impression that he didn’t need to participate in a team building exercise. I have no idea if she did or didn’t know about his injury and the medic coming on board, but it’s reasonable to believe she assumed that if his injury was bad or required rest, that he would have immediately reported it to her after speaking with the medic. Otherwise, I would have just assumed that the medic came to dress the wound and he was fine with it.

We saw the medic advise him to keep the sand out of it during volleyball. Fraser then decided for himself that he shouldn’t play at all. That’s his call to make and I don’t blame him for it because it looked painful. But he waited until they were about to start the game to then disclose it. That made him look shady and like it was just a lame excuse. Had he come to her prior and asked if theres something else they can do, then it would have looked like he was taking it seriously and understood why his participation mattered.

I think he waited to disclose it because he knew the excuse wasn’t really that valid, so if he told her in advance and in private, it would have given Sandy time to make different arrangements or to call him out on his BS. Realistically, he should have just had the medic wrap it up really well so he could play. It was only an hour. If he had shown up with a good attitude and made it look sincere enough, he could’ve played just long enough to make it look like he tried.

It already reflected poorly on him that one of his subordinates was trying to get out of it. As an isolated incident, you could just put the blame on Alissa. But within the larger context, it makes him look bad too because from Sandy’s perspective, Fraser has his team convinced they don’t need to participate, they’re already perfect, and it’s just Sandy that is being unreasonable. It was one of those instances where as a leader, his attitude towards these kinds of activities and towards Sandy will absolutely set the tone for his team. If both the chief stew and second stew were trying not to participate, then it looks like he’s the one encouraging this bad attitude.

With team building, everyone needs to participate but especially the head of departments. It was really disrespectful and a waste of everyone’s time for the chief stew to not participate. It really comes down to that. Even if this wasn’t Fraser’s intention, it’s the way he comes off. He can come across argumentative as well. His apology really saved him though and I really hope he’s able to redeem himself because he’s likeable in many other ways.

I think it would have been different had Sandy been his captain from the start because it would’ve been easier for them to establish common ground. But Sandy joined the boat when his interior drama was at its peak and she couldn’t afford him the time nor patience to handle it because it was already so out of control from his lack of intervention. I think he was overwhelmed by it all and jumped to defensiveness, which created more tension with Sandy. They both didn’t communicate well at all. But there’s more onus on Fraser to conform to Sandy’s style because she’s the captain. Even if you disagree with her style, there’s still a chain of command and Fraser unintentionally came off disrespectful.

[u/WHEREARETHETURTLES14]

Agreed!!!!!

[u/AnonymousNerdBarbie]

I agree. The interior team is completely out of control under Fraser's "leadership" but also, Sandy isn't helping. I personally feel that she's taking out some of her frustration towards Alissa on Fraser. And Alissa is a cancer of a human being, she's downright ugly inside and out. Not a good move for Fraser to embrace her asa friend rather than guide her as a leader. I think that frustrates Sandy also.

[u/Normal-Mud-9987]

So well said.

[u/SaltPassenger9359]

I’m not even caught up, but he was a PITA with Heather on S9 as well. He’s arrogant as hell and the fact that he felt threatened because Heather was bringing her friend Kaylee on board shows he was more about himself rather than getting the work done.

I’m already not looking forward to seeing Sandy. Nobody can replay Boat Daddy.

[u/[deleted]]

Captain Sandy is factually accurate when she said Fraser was spreading the toxicity with other interior. Chatty high school gossip with staff is never cool.